U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[Dacien]

To be honest it would be nice to be able to extend the conversation to each respective party's chance at increasing their hold in either House of Congress. Important Senate battles and etc.

Hey, I'll be honest with you, I'm treating these candidate sticky threads like political dumping grounds for pulp discussion. As long as it's relevant to politics, I'm likely not going to interject. Of course, that whole philosophy hinges on people not being asshats to each other. Because then other mods/supermods start noticing, and they're likely to take a less lackadaisical approach than I am.

[KingHorse]

To be honest it would be nice to be able to extend the conversation to each respective party's chance at increasing their hold in either House of Congress. Important Senate battles and etc.

I'll start!

The economic recovery the president is touting started about the same time we took away his majority and got some people in there that pretty much sat down and said "lolnope" to most of what he wanted.

Go!

[Dacien]

I'll start!

The economic recovery the president is touting started about the same time we took away his majority and got some people in there that pretty much sat down and said "lolnope" to most of what he wanted.

Go!

Nice angle!! Republicans' refusal to compromise with Obama's economy-destructive policy goals has staved off the worst of the bad economy, and now it's even growing.

I like it!

[Wells]

Its not true though.

[Stanton Biston]

The 'economy' isn't recovering though. I mean, the stock market, sure. But housing prices/new construction/etc is still through the floor.

Not to mention that shit like short sales and forclosures are hard driving down the value of houses all over the country. Especially when the average american's big investment IS their house. Nothing says economic recovery like being underwater on your house and your property taxes are tied to the purchase price.

[bergmann620]

Its not true though.

It's not true in the sense that we can't accurately dole out praise or blame for what's happening.

However, if Obama sells the economy as (at least slowly) growing, it has to be noted that it is growing at the same time as Tea Party Extremists [tm] are obstructing most of his policies.

If Republicans try to sell the economy as being terrible, you have to acknowledge that you have at least partial control of the legislative process, and that you haven't been able to effectively work with the other team to improve the country's business climate.

IMO, the fact that there is a slow recovery speaks to the notion that overall business growth depends the most on stability, and the only true stability we manage to achieve is deadlock.

[eriseis]

I
IMO, the fact that there is a slow recovery speaks to the notion that overall business growth depends the most on stability, and the only true stability we manage to achieve is deadlock.

Um...what?

[bergmann620]

Um...what?

Deadlock = no changes = stability.

[ptwonline]

Deadlock = no changes = stability.

This assumes that you are in a stable position to begin with.

And when it comes to growth, it assumes that the "stable" position is actually a positive one.

[oblivionx]

Obama has done the opposite of what spurs growth.

It's still growing.

You can elect some crackpot like Jerry Brown and you would probably still have national growth.

But, there is a point where growth has to outstrip inflation, which is the key. In this case it's probably not, but the current administration claims there is no inflation. They haven't allowed for a Social Security inflationary increase under this claim, which being the fed is still printing money like it's the new fade, is impossible.

[bergmann620]

This assumes that you are in a stable position to begin with.

And when it comes to growth, it assumes that the "stable" position is actually a positive one.

You're mistaking the type of stability I'm talking about.

If you don't know from month to month what, say, employee healthcare is going to cost, or what taxes you'll be paying, it becomes very risky to hire and expand unless you're doing killer business. When you don't know what types of new regulation you'll be looking at 6 months down the road, it encourages slower, more conservative growth all around.

There are very few problems an active Congress actually solves. More often than not, Congress just swaps out winners for losers in the marketplace through short-sighted or lobbyist-influenced legislation.

Ask used-car lots what they though of cash-for-clunkers. Ask the [former] workers at Solyndra how their job search is going. Ask the people that struggle every month with their rent what they think of financing mortgages for people that are already ahead of them, financially.

[Deleted]

Obama's personality cult being fed to young vulnerable school children. Pretty sickening.

http://imgur.com/a/Liq6J

[ptwonline]

You're mistaking the type of stability I'm talking about.

If you don't know from month to month what, say, employee healthcare is going to cost, or what taxes you'll be paying, it becomes very risky to hire and expand unless you're doing killer business. When you don't know what types of new regulation you'll be looking at 6 months down the road, it encourages slower, more conservative growth all around.

There are very few problems an active Congress actually solves. More often than not, Congress just swaps out winners for losers in the marketplace through short-sighted or lobbyist-influenced legislation.

Ask used-car lots what they though of cash-for-clunkers. Ask the [former] workers at Solyndra how their job search is going. Ask the people that struggle every month with their rent what they think of financing mortgages for people that are already ahead of them, financially.

Any legislation--unless it can involve the entire economy--is going to produce relative winners and losers. But that's the price you have to pay in order to actually get anything done to benefit the economy/nation, because more general legislation often doesn't mean much since you can't really be specific. It's specifics that can be targeted and acted upon, and where you cvan potentially get more bang for your buck.

And your idea of "stability" is a bit of a red herring. Nothing is ever entirely stable. Health care coss are constantly changing. Not only the costs from providers but the cost of care that your employees actually use. Risk is a part of doing business. It's only when risk starts to become extreme does it then become a strong inhibitor of business growth. However, measures that Congress is trying to pass often aren't creating large upsets in stability. Sometimes they are for specific sectors, typically because the status quo has big problems and a change is needed. For example, the Volcker rule.

However, the biggest stability issue created by this Congress was last year's fight over the debt ceiling and the prospect that America would not pay it's bills. Yes, it was gridlock that created the INSTABILITY. That's because part of govt's job is to help keep things stable, and sometimes they need to act to do that. You are confusing inaction with stability, when in fact sometimes corrections are needed for both stability and also for improvements. Furthermore, gridlock can make more uncertainty because instead of passing legislation, it gets stuck in a holding pattern and so no one knows.

[Stanton Biston]

IMO, the fact that there is a slow recovery speaks to the notion that overall business growth depends the most on stability, and the only true stability we manage to achieve is deadlock.

That's fucked up isn't? I mean, I kinda agree, but fucked up all the same.

[Badpaladin]

The 'economy' isn't recovering though. I mean, the stock market, sure. But housing prices/new construction/etc is still through the floor.

Not to mention that shit like short sales and forclosures are hard driving down the value of houses all over the country. Especially when the average american's big investment IS their house. Nothing says economic recovery like being underwater on your house and your property taxes are tied to the purchase price.

This is a little off-topic, but currently most people my age are within a term or so of graduating with a bachelor's, and within the next 2-3 years most of us that want master's will have them too -- almost every person I talk to is afraid to buy a house. We're all considering just renting for life.

[Stanton Biston]

This is a little off-topic, but currently most people my age are within a term or so of graduating with a bachelor's, and within the next 2-3 years most of us that want master's will have them too -- almost every person I talk to is afraid to buy a house. We're all considering just renting for life.

Sounds like a good idea until your rent increases faster than your paycheck.

Which is what is happening here. Rent is up 14% since last year.

[Maharishi]

Sounds like a good idea until your rent increases faster than your paycheck.

Which is what is happening here. Rent is up 14% since last year.

Yeah, everyone's renting now, stupid supply and demand. The agent I went through when I got the place I'm at now said it was 50% more than it would have been 3-4 years ago.

[bergmann620]

This is a little off-topic, but currently most people my age are within a term or so of graduating with a bachelor's, and within the next 2-3 years most of us that want master's will have them too -- almost every person I talk to is afraid to buy a house. We're all considering just renting for life.

That's not very sound logic. If you have the means, this is likely the BEST time you could ever buy a house. The only way home prices descend much at this point is if we start giving them away. If you know that the market for a commodity (housing) will continue to have value long term, buying in at a low point is a great investment.

[Wells]

It's not true in the sense that we can't accurately dole out praise or blame for what's happening.

However, if Obama sells the economy as (at least slowly) growing, it has to be noted that it is growing at the same time as Tea Party Extremists [tm] are obstructing most of his policies.

If Republicans try to sell the economy as being terrible, you have to acknowledge that you have at least partial control of the legislative process, and that you haven't been able to effectively work with the other team to improve the country's business climate.

IMO, the fact that there is a slow recovery speaks to the notion that overall business growth depends the most on stability, and the only true stability we manage to achieve is deadlock.

But the Tea Party isn't trying to sell "do nothing" as a solution to the economic crisis, so they can't logically claim that their plan of stopping him from doing anything is actually whats causing improvements.

[bergmann620]

But the Tea Party isn't trying to sell "do nothing" as a solution to the economic crisis, so they can't logically claim that their plan of stopping him from doing anything is actually whats causing improvements.

"Do Nothing" is far closer to what they're selling than "Go along with the Big O."

I also chuckle when people throw around the "party of no" BS... Where were these people when the Wisconsin state Dems were fleeing the state to avoid being present for a vote? But hey, they were fucking patriots, right? I mean, they only countermanded the will of the people as expressed by their elected representatives.

Maybe if we get lucky, Obama can get re-elected, and he can get a Congressional minority to vote him emergency powers so that he can fix all the stuff that's wrong.

Sounds like a good idea, no?