U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[Catta]

Here's a good read on the impact of our Global Warming Solutions Act.
http://atlasnetwork.org/wp-content/u...Roundtable.pdf

Disregarding global warming - what about just reducing smog in the cities...

[Wells]

Yeah I'm only thumbing through this but it looks like its nothing but direct costs.

[stabetha]

Disregarding global warming - what about just reducing smog in the cities...

but cap and trade and CARB don't help that they just help line the pockets of big business

[Catta]

but cap and trade and CARB don't help that they just help line the pockets of big business

CARB, just looked it up, was started by Reagan - its all Reagan's fault then...

[mistuhbull]

CARB, just looked it up, was started by Reagan - its all Reagan's fault then...

It's almost impressive at this point how almost every modern policy in the US, on both sides of the aisle, somehow comes back to Reagan

[Jaxi]

Is it that I hate this planet, or is it that I think environmentalism has become it's own kind of cult, where reasonable approaches, moderation, and compromises are foreign concepts? Environmental safeguards are a good thing, but at least here in California, we're hurting ourselves pretty bad with our green obsession.

I used to work as a contractor at Humboldt Bay decommissioning the nuclear generating station. Your states irrational fear of nuclear forced pacific gas and electric to put in large gas turbines instead. California wants their wind turbines and solar panels, but is unwilling to compromise on nuclear power, thus they hurt for energy and have to endure more greenhouse gases. Hypocrites abound.

We try to tell the environmentalists that their conventional green energy sources are not fully dispatachable power supplies, but that concept seems to elude them.

[stabetha]

CARB, just looked it up, was started by Reagan - its all Reagan's fault then...

I don't get it, what does that have to do with anything?

carb has still done nothing to clean the air in California all it's has done is put money into the pockets of political cronies.

[mistuhbull]

I used to work as a contractor at Humboldt Bay decommissioning the nuclear generating station. Your states irrational fear of nuclear forced pacific gas and electric to put in large gas turbines instead. California wants their wind turbines and solar panels, but is unwilling to compromise on nuclear power, thus they hurt for energy and have to endure more greenhouse gases. Hypocrites abound.

We try to tell the environmentalists that their conventional green energy sources are not fully dispatachable power supplies, but that concept seems to elude them.

Nuclear power won't happen in California for decades if not generations, the Fukushima crisis solidified that.

Americans, and people in general, do not want to accept that when handled properly Nuclear is, basically, the best energy source we can tap right now. Unfortunately specific tragedies (Fukushima (natural disaster), Chernobyl (Shitty russian parts/workers), 3 Mile Island) will continue to bolster the populace's fear of nuclear power. It's a damn shame.

[Dacien]

Disregarding global warming - what about just reducing smog in the cities...

We could get into a big debate about man-made global warming, but we'd better not

[xylophone]

What is it about the planet you dislike so much?

I'm all for positive environmental goals, but not at the cost of assraping the economy. Loads of companies are leaving ASAP because of the increased cost of doing business here.

[Dacien]

I used to work as a contractor at Humboldt Bay decommissioning the nuclear generating station. Your states irrational fear of nuclear forced pacific gas and electric to put in large gas turbines instead. California wants their wind turbines and solar panels, but is unwilling to compromise on nuclear power, thus they hurt for energy and have to endure more greenhouse gases. Hypocrites abound.

We try to tell the environmentalists that their conventional green energy sources are not fully dispatachable power supplies, but that concept seems to elude them.

California's green obsession, and the clouded thinking that results from it, is truly worthy of awe.

[Wells]

The cost of doing business in a dense area like California is always going to be higher than in the less developed parts of the US, that's just basic economics.

[Catta]

We could get into a big debate about man-made global warming, but we'd better not

Im not saying global warming, im saying smog - which is definitely man made... And also carcinogenic :>

[xylophone]

The cost of doing business in a dense area like California is always going to be higher than in the less developed parts of the US, that's just basic economics.

California isn't very dense compared to the Eastern Seaboard. Aside from the megalopolis of SD/LA and SF it is actually pretty sparse.

[Wells]

California isn't very dense compared to the Eastern Seaboard. Aside from the megalopolis of SD/LA and SF it is actually pretty sparse.

Not as dense as the east coast isn't the same as not dense. Especially with all that cheap land and labor so close by.

[xylophone]

Not as dense as the east coast isn't the same as not dense. Especially with all that cheap land and labor so close by.

Well I don't have any figures and am too lazy to go digging to find them, but I would be willing to bet even in those much more dense areas that the cost of doing business is much cheaper.

[Wells]

Well I don't have any figures and am too lazy to go digging to find them, but I would be willing to bet even in those much more dense areas that the cost of doing business is much cheaper.

Well you'd have to look at cost of living as well, since that drives up labor costs. Because clearly there are dense areas where its cheap to do business (China, India, etc).

[xylophone]

Well you'd have to look at cost of living as well, since that drives up labor costs. Because clearly there are dense areas where its cheap to do business (China, India, etc).

Well you were the one saying that cost of business was higher due to the density of the area...

[Wells]

Well you were the one saying that cost of business was higher due to the density of the area...

In the US the two correlate pretty heavily. Its only once you get outside the US that that changes.

[xylophone]

Unless of course you're referring to the density of our politicians when it comes to fiscal accountability, then I would have to agree with you.

---------- Post added 2012-05-01 at 04:09 PM ----------

In the US the two correlate pretty heavily. Its only once you get outside the US that that changes.

Admittedly I'm not very well schooled in economics, but how does an already developed infrastructure and plentiful human resources drive prices up in the first place?