GW2 Thief Discussion

[solidsheep]

<-- uses bows still

And how would they be less support? They can stealth people, heal them, apply blinds, bleeds, etc etc, they seem liked they'd be fine but just have to play differently compared to a guardian. Sure a guardian would be better at just locking down an area and keeping it safe, but that's their thing, a thief would be better at making the enemy want to curl into a ball and cry because they can't -do- anything. If you ask me, i'd rather have the thief.

Steal is very undocumented ability iv see it quite often come with dmg/support abilities on most mobs you steal from.
Are main combo feild is smoke which combos a blind on every finisher, I think.
I think are support role is a bit more intricate and doesn't stick in your face like most classes.

[Durzlla]

Steal is very undocumented ability iv see it quite often come with dmg/support abilities on most mobs you steal from.
Are main combo feild is smoke which combos a blind on every finisher, I think.
I think are support role is a bit more intricate and doesn't stick in your face like most classes.

not to mention a stomp effect in your smoke cloud field stealths all allies around it and blinds enemies, and i believe leaping through a smoke cloud stealths you as well...

---------- Post added 2012-04-24 at 07:38 PM ----------

im not saying thieves are "bad" at support, im saying the vast amount of morons that will end up playing this game will THINK they are

ive covered in this thread some of the pros of a "support thief" most notably that they can essentially play all 3 roles at once without giving up as much (sword/pistol) where other professions typically have to switch to something that gives up on another facet

this makes thieves, when it comes to support, jack of all trades master of none

but the main problem i find is the lack of depth and overall options

support as a thief (as is) will be harder and require more from the player than something like an engi, war, guard, or ele which will turn off most groups who want to play it safe

lol so? Stupid people will be stupid!! You're going to be having idiots wanting guardians/"water" elementalists to heal, and "prot" guardians and warriors to tank... i doubt the whole thief thing will be that big of a deal...

[Glytch]

not to mention a stomp effect in your smoke cloud field stealths all allies around it and blinds enemies, and i believe leaping through a smoke cloud stealths you as well...

---------- Post added 2012-04-24 at 07:38 PM ----------



lol so? Stupid people will be stupid!! You're going to be having idiots wanting guardians/"water" elementalists to heal, and "prot" guardians and warriors to tank... i doubt the whole thief thing will be that big of a deal...

still, it's not a good idea to have one profession completely reliant on CPCs to do their job

[solidsheep]

still, it's not a good idea to have one profession completely reliant on CPCs to do their job

If done right it will do just fine its nice to have different flavor between classes.

[Loaf Lord]

im not saying thieves are "bad" at support, im saying the vast amount of morons that will end up playing this game will THINK they are

Kind like how people instantly think guardians are tank or some shit. So annoying.

[solidsheep]

http://www.gw2tools.com/skills#t;aNk...bUa;bbYY;aURXa
kinda messing around but thats quite a bit of support

[DrakeWurrum]

Steal is very undocumented ability iv see it quite often come with dmg/support abilities on most mobs you steal from.
Are main combo feild is smoke which combos a blind on every finisher, I think.
I think are support role is a bit more intricate and doesn't stick in your face like most classes.

I wouldn't want to rely on Steal for support, primarily because you're not guaranteed to get the environmental weapon you want.

It would be more reliable if you could store up to three environmental weapons in F2-F4 maybe... but that's not likely to happen.

---------- Post added 2012-04-24 at 10:54 PM ----------

PS: I have a distinct feeling thief support would be more offensive, like being a lux or morgana support in LoL, you're not supporting how a guardian or elem will with defensive things, you're going to be more shutting down the enemy and giving your allies your venoms and cackling madly as everything dies around you...

Shutting down the enemy is technically control, not support!

Like I said, the only real form of support we have is traiting to give venoms to allies, traiting for steal to "boon" the group, and those few little utility tricks we have like smoke screen or shadow refuge

---------- Post added 2012-04-24 at 10:56 PM ----------

And how would they be less support? They can stealth people, heal them, apply blinds, bleeds, etc etc, they seem liked they'd be fine but just have to play differently compared to a guardian. Sure a guardian would be better at just locking down an area and keeping it safe, but that's their thing, a thief would be better at making the enemy want to curl into a ball and cry because they can't -do- anything. If you ask me, i'd rather have the thief.

We're less support relatively speaking. The best support from other professions comes from extremely short CD weapon skills - that's much more supportive than traiting a 45 second CD steal, or sharing a 45-second CD venom, or using a smoke screen every 30 seconds, or healing with a shadow refuge every 60 seconds as we stealth.

[Durzlla]

I wouldn't want to rely on Steal for support, primarily because you're not guaranteed to get the environmental weapon you want.

It would be more reliable if you could store up to three environmental weapons in F2-F4 maybe... but that's not likely to happen.

---------- Post added 2012-04-24 at 10:54 PM ----------


Shutting down the enemy is technically control, not support!

Like I said, the only real form of support we have is traiting to give venoms to allies, traiting for steal to "boon" the group, and those few little utility tricks we have like smoke screen or shadow refuge

---------- Post added 2012-04-24 at 10:56 PM ----------


We're less support relatively speaking. The best support from other professions comes from extremely short CD weapon skills - that's much more supportive than traiting a 45 second CD steal, or sharing a 45-second CD venom, or using a smoke screen every 30 seconds, or healing with a shadow refuge every 60 seconds as we stealth.

It really depends, the longer CD ones are likely far more powerful then the others tbh, and I'd rather have a thief throw a well placed smoke bomb that saves ye group then someOne spamming a fairly useless boon generator that won't be as effective -_-

And control, support who cares? They're really the same thing all in all it keeps the group alive!
PS: you can reduce your steals CDs and just about very steal item I saw was support/control oriented so I wouldn't worry on said item being useless...

---------- Post added 2012-04-25 at 09:10 AM ----------

http://www.gw2tools.com/skills#t;aNk...bUa;bbYY;aURXa
kinda messing around but thats quite a bit of support

Your link is broken sir, may I suggest usin the other GW2 build site? It's much nicer then gw2tools...

[DrakeWurrum]

PS: you can reduce your steals CDs

Unless there is some of the stat on gear, and there's plenty of it, you can't reduce it lower than 31.5 seconds, and that's only if you max out Trickery at the cost of other trait lines.

---------- Post added 2012-04-25 at 11:36 AM ----------

It really depends, the longer CD ones are likely far more powerful then the others tbh, and I'd rather have a thief throw a well placed smoke bomb that saves ye group then someOne spamming a fairly useless boon generator that won't be as effective -_-

Yes, because constantly applying Protection, or Regeneration, will be totally ineffective? Smoke Screen is nice and all, but it's so short-term, and it's not like other classes lack similar utility slot skills that are just as effective.

---------- Post added 2012-04-25 at 11:41 AM ----------

Anyways...

I'm still leaning towards something similar to this build, but I obviously plan to play around with build a lot.

This build is lately looking attractive. Note that 20% reduced CD on Spider Venom means 36 second CD, that Posion stacks in duration, and that the Poison from Spider Venom lasts 6 seconds. Since I traited for it to last 6 strikes, it will stack up to last 36 seconds total. I can also Immobilize my foe for a minimum of 9 seconds, assuming no condition clearing.
And that's not considering how my Expertise effects it.
*does some basic math* so instead of 6 seconds it should last 7.8 per application... and 7.8 times 6 is 46.8. Holy crap, I don't even need the 20% reduced CD. Especially since I might get Expertise on gear, whether I intend to or not. Think I'll go with Sundering Strikes instead (actually, it's a close call between Sundering Strikes vs Improved Venoms, or even Venomous Strength vs Improved Venoms). Too bad I don't have any boon duration for all the Might this build can self-apply.

Neither build would, unfortunately, be very good at supporting the group. I'd be all about damage and control.

[Glytch]

Unless there is some of the stat on gear, and there's plenty of it, you can't reduce it lower than 31.5 seconds, and that's only if you max out Trickery at the cost of other trait lines.

---------- Post added 2012-04-25 at 11:36 AM ----------


Yes, because constantly applying Protection, or Regeneration, will be totally ineffective? Smoke Screen is nice and all, but it's so short-term, and it's not like other classes lack similar utility slot skills that are just as effective.

---------- Post added 2012-04-25 at 11:41 AM ----------

Anyways...

I'm still leaning towards something similar to this build, but I obviously plan to play around with build a lot.

This build is lately looking attractive. Note that 20% reduced CD on Spider Venom means 36 second CD, that Posion stacks in duration, and that the Poison from Spider Venom lasts 6 seconds. Since I traited for it to last 6 strikes, it will stack up to last 36 seconds total. I can also Immobilize my foe for a minimum of 9 seconds, assuming no condition clearing.
And that's not considering how my Expertise effects it.
*does some basic math* so instead of 6 seconds it should last 7.8 per application... and 7.8 times 6 is 46.8. Holy crap, I don't even need the 20% reduced CD. Especially since I might get Expertise on gear, whether I intend to or not. Think I'll go with Sundering Strikes instead (actually, it's a close call between Sundering Strikes vs Improved Venoms, or even Venomous Strength vs Improved Venoms). Too bad I don't have any boon duration for all the Might this build can self-apply.

Neither build would, unfortunately, be very good at supporting the group. I'd be all about damage and control.

for the record: the runes we've seen dont show any of the class stats and frankly dont expect there to ever be any

[Deleted]

Okay, I've been messing around and built this:

http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/...0k8c8k8t929mk0

I'd rather use Shadow Refuge than Spider Venom, but if I did, would there be much point going into Deady Arts, as it seems to focus on poisons?

[DrakeWurrum]

Okay, I've been messing around and built this:

http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/...0k8c8k8t929mk0

I'd rather use Shadow Refuge than Spider Venom, but if I did, would there be much point going into Deady Arts, as it seems to focus on poisons?

I dunno, Deadly Arts seems to be so focused on the venom skills that anytime I play with a non-venom build, Deadly Arts just has little-to-no traits that appeal to me.

While it's true you get Power from Deadly Arts, note that you also get Expertise (condition duration), so that it favors conditions heavily.

[PonyCannon]

Okay, I've been messing around and built this:

http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/...0k8c8k8t929mk0

I'd rather use Shadow Refuge than Spider Venom, but if I did, would there be much point going into Deady Arts, as it seems to focus on poisons?

I could see you taking the last 5 points you put in Deadly Arts and putting them into Shadow Arts for Shadow Protection. That would actually go well with Shadow Refuge. Or you could go 5 into Acrobatics and get the minor, Expeditious Dodger, which is pretty much useful in any situation.

[Durzlla]

I dunno, Deadly Arts seems to be so focused on the venom skills that anytime I play with a non-venom build, Deadly Arts just has little-to-no traits that appeal to me.

While it's true you get Power from Deadly Arts, note that you also get Expertise (condition duration), so that it favors conditions heavily.

I wouldn't say it's condition "heavy" perse... it seems more like the power/expertise trees are more i smash your face in with big raw numbers, and then use the conditions more for some extra benefit, whether it damage or being more control, where the ones with malice seem more condition heavy (at least how i think of condition heavy) where like all the damage being done is through the conditions.

Just my two cents, but i do agree deadly arts seems to REALLY like using venom skills lol

[DrakeWurrum]

I wouldn't say it's condition "heavy" perse... it seems more like the power/expertise trees are more i smash your face in with big raw numbers, and then use the conditions more for some extra benefit, whether it damage or being more control, where the ones with malice seem more condition heavy (at least how i think of condition heavy) where like all the damage being done is through the conditions.

Just my two cents, but i do agree deadly arts seems to REALLY like using venom skills lol

Not necessarily true, but it depends on what weapons you have, and what conditions you apply.

And Thieves mostly apply Bleeding, Poison, and Vulnerability.

All that Expertise really does diddly squat for anything with only 1 second duration.

[Deleted]

Yeah, the venom thing doesnt massively appeal to me, but I wouldnt mind the extra damage.

What I'm aiming for a little is a crit-damage build. It sounds stupid, but basically I want to be able to crush people quickly, even at the expense of having a longer "down-time" whilst initiative regens. I'd been thinking of getting the +5 init trait and the "init increases crit damage" for really powerful openers.

I also took the -20% time on Signets as I'm using two of them. Is that a good idea?

[DrakeWurrum]

Is that a good idea?

We'll know in the beta. I'm trying a venom-less crit-focused build myself. Two different kinds, in fact.

http://www.gw2builds.org/view/243051/dual_skill_thief
http://www.gw2builds.org/view/202081...al_skill_thief

Note that both builds avoid excessive amounts of Expertise or Malice.

[Deleted]

I like those builds. I agree in that I dont much like the look of venoms and traps, which is why I tried to make a build that shied away from them. Really hope I can test that build this weekend.

[solidsheep]

We'll know in the beta. I'm trying a venom-less crit-focused build myself. Two different kinds, in fact.

http://www.gw2builds.org/view/243051/dual_skill_thief
http://www.gw2builds.org/view/202081...al_skill_thief

Note that both builds avoid excessive amounts of Expertise or Malice.

drake what server you playing on?
why not go 10 points into trickery and get thrill of the crime or bountiful theft?
Ill go poisons and we can compare notes

[DrakeWurrum]

It's tempting to do that, but I've come to dislike the way Steal works now, if things haven't changed. It just sounds too clunky to be used for anything but environmental weapons. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong.