GW2 Thief Discussion

[Osprey39]

1) that 20 second one is an interrupt 2) arcane thievery was random, 3) Diversion was SIGNIFICANTLY better then that 4) only works on spells 5) it's the god damn Mesmer 6) different game, different rules.

Wow, you totally missed my point I guess. It was in response to Larynx saying that what lurker87 proposed as a change to steal (randomly steal an opponents 2-5 skill and lock it out for 5-10 seconds) was overpowered and I disagree and pointed out that they used it in GW1. It wasn't considered OP there and those skills are much more potent than what lurker87 suggested. In response to your enumerated items:

1) It also steals the skill and locks it out for the opponent for that duration
2) yeah, so is lurker87's suggestion
3) Who cares? That's not relevant to what was being discussed.
4) Simple Thievery works on skills but that's not the point either.
5) No shit? I didn't notice...
6) See #5

So to reiterate, I don't see what lurker87 suggested as being overpowered at all. There's precedence for this in Guild Wars 1 (you know, the game Guild Wars 2 is at least loosely based on) even if it's on a different class. I'm not advocating for or against his idea, I was just saying I don't think it would be OP.

[PonyCannon]

for those that didnt realize it, the downed 2 skill is now ground targeted

I actually like it better from both sides of the fence. As a thief it's not totally random if i go somewhere good or not and from the other side it makes thieves stomp-able with out having to stop what you are doing and focus on them.

Downside to the change is I think the 3 skill while downed is pretty useless. Once I played a thief and realized what It did it never fooled me again on my other toons. I'd use aoe right where they pop it, immediately reveal them, and stomp them.

[DrakeWurrum]

I actually like it better from both sides of the fence. As a thief it's not totally random if i go somewhere good or not and from the other side it makes thieves stomp-able with out having to stop what you are doing and focus on them.

Downside to the change is I think the 3 skill while downed is pretty useless. Once I played a thief and realized what It did it never fooled me again on my other toons. I'd use aoe right where they pop it, immediately reveal them, and stomp them.

Taking damage does not break stealth. It's just a short duration stealth already.

I do agree, however, that the skill is useless, since it's obvious where you are. They should, imo, have made it a targeted teleport + stealth as the #3 skill, and the #2 skill should be some sort of offensive move that can also be used to interrupt the finisher. Like... an AoE daze. Flash Powder?

[PonyCannon]

I thought it slightly revealed them so you could target/stomp for a second. I know damage doesn't totally break stealth but I guess I was mistaken thought there was a bit of a penalty for being hit while stealthed.

[DrakeWurrum]

I've never noticed any sort of penalty for being hit when in stealth. It's only a 2 second stealth. Probably by the time you finished using your AoE attack, the stealth was up. It's why I find it so hilarious that so many people complained about it, being such a short duration.

[PonyCannon]

Guess I was just wrong then, Kind of sad I'm not quite as awesome as I thought I was after all.

[DrakeWurrum]

Guess I was just wrong then, Kind of sad I'm not quite as awesome as I thought I was after all.

Still perfectly wise to drop an aoe, as you can bandage without breaking stealth. So still quite perfectly useless.

---------- Post added 2012-07-25 at 10:21 PM ----------

So I just noticed the Pain Response trait.

This makes me extremely happy. O_O

---------- Post added 2012-07-26 at 08:27 AM ----------

Now that I think about it, I'm actually annoyed that our only reliable way to remove damage conditions from ourselves is through automatic traits like Pain Response, or from Hide in Shadows. And then on top of that, we don't have a way to remove Weakness, Vulnerability, or Confusion from ourselves. Our only reliable way to remove movement conditions from ourselves is also Roll for Initiative or Withdraw (and picking Withdraw means no Hide in Shadows).

Where's the utility skills like Cleansing Flame or Contemplation of Purity or Smite Condition? D:
Signet of Agility remove a condition from all nearby allies, but it's primary use is to restore endurance.

It seems like Thieves are very very prone to conditions from enemies.

[Quanille]

[/COLOR]Now that I think about it, I'm actually annoyed that our only reliable way to remove damage conditions from ourselves is through automatic traits like Pain Response, or from Hide in Shadows. And then on top of that, we don't have a way to remove Weakness, Vulnerability, or Confusion from ourselves. Our only reliable way to remove movement conditions from ourselves is also Roll for Initiative or Withdraw (and picking Withdraw means no Hide in Shadows).

Where's the utility skills like Cleansing Flame or Contemplation of Purity or Smite Condition? D:
Signet of Agility remove a condition from all nearby allies, but it's primary use is to restore endurance.

It seems like Thieves are very very prone to conditions from enemies.

Shadowstep has a condition removal on it, removes 2 conditions when you step to target, and again when you step to original location
60 sec cooldown

[Lurker87]

So to reiterate, I don't see what lurker87 suggested as being overpowered at all. There's precedence for this in Guild Wars 1 (you know, the game Guild Wars 2 is at least loosely based on) even if it's on a different class. I'm not advocating for or against his idea, I was just saying I don't think it would be OP.

I still don't see it as overpowered either, but the duration might be. If it was 3 seconds instead of 5-10, but you kept the ability for 10 seconds or until you used it, it shouldn't be OP. The way steal is right now just isn't fun for me and that might be why I go with Mesmer instead, at least I know what's going to happen when I use the F1 abilities. Yes the idea I suggested is somewhat random, but it isn't completely random, you just need to know the other classes abilities.

I had a different idea for steal but it will probably get torn apart like last time.

[Larynx]

Here's a very well written .pdf written by a poster on Team Paradigm, on the topic of one of the recent interviews where ArenaNet dismissed RNG as fine.

http://www.mediafire.com/?xcuvoupxfakdc97

I've tested it, it is safe.

I'm going to hide behind the words of this document now.

[Lurker87]

Here's a very well written .pdf written by a poster on Team Paradigm, on the topic of one of the recent interviews where ArenaNet dismissed RNG as fine.

http://www.mediafire.com/?xcuvoupxfakdc97

I've tested it, it is safe.


I'm going to hide behind the words of this document now.

I'll have to read this later because I don't have the time right now, but I'm sure it has to do with randomness in competitive pvp.

Thanks for the link though.

[Durzlla]

Here's a very well written .pdf written by a poster on Team Paradigm, on the topic of one of the recent interviews where ArenaNet dismissed RNG as fine.

http://www.mediafire.com/?xcuvoupxfakdc97

I've tested it, it is safe.

I'm going to hide behind the words of this document now.

Read 6 pages, came to conclusion the guy is just butt hurt because he tries to use random moves the wrong way, IE using an ability with 5% chance to block an attack in an attempt to save his ass instead of well before that point.

Then again I'm a fan of chaos and disaray, and my strategy in most strategy games is "fuck strategy!" (works really well I might add)

[Lurker87]

Then again I'm a fan of chaos and disaray, and my strategy in most strategy games is "fuck strategy!" (works really well I might add)

I've always thought that part of being good at pvp is being able to adapt to any situation, random or not. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Larynx]

I've always thought that part of being good at pvp is being able to adapt to any situation, random or not. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Being able to adapt to a disadvantage present because of RNG, or an unexpected event, is a useful part of PvP. Starcraft 2 is the perfect example for this. (minus the RNG part)

---------- Post added 2012-07-26 at 12:55 PM ----------

Read 6 pages, came to conclusion the guy is just butt hurt because he tries to use random moves the wrong way, IE using an ability with 5% chance to block an attack in an attempt to save his ass instead of well before that point.

Then again I'm a fan of chaos and disaray, and my strategy in most strategy games is "fuck strategy!" (works really well I might add)

If you are going to not read any of it and respond thoughtfully to the points provided, you may close this document now. It is a long read, but I believe it is better for it to be this way, as I can slowly and methodically assert and explain my objections to artificial randomness, and I can slowly and methodically explain why I think defenses of artificial randomness are invalid.

Classic Durz.

[Durzlla]

Being able to adapt to a disadvantage present because of RNG, or an unexpected event, is a useful part of PvP. Starcraft 2 is the perfect example for this. (minus the RNG part)

---------- Post added 2012-07-26 at 12:55 PM ----------





Classic Durz.

Ah but I read 6 pages

[Lurker87]

Being able to adapt to a disadvantage present because of RNG, or an unexpected event, is a useful part of PvP. Starcraft 2 is the perfect example for this. (minus the RNG part)

It's obvious that having some RNG is part of Anet's design. It exists in a few classes, it wouldn't be against this design to change Steal to this. Not to mention, steal is kind of random as it is (depending on who you use it on), but instead of actually stealing something, it just gives you a random attack. They could at least change the name to something else like "Shadowstep ability generator".

[Larynx]

It's obvious that having some RNG is part of Anet's design. It exists in a few classes, it wouldn't be against this design to change Steal to this. Not to mention, steal is kind of random as it is (depending on who you use it on), but instead of actually stealing something, it just gives you a random attack. They could at least change the name to something else like "Shadowstep ability generator".

I refer you to the pdf I will now use to defend myself with since I can't be bothered to parrot.

Suddenly, discussions became so much easier when I don't care about defending myself.

Drake, disagree with me on some point. You can't let this moment pass unexploited.

[leafs43]

I've never noticed any sort of penalty for being hit when in stealth. It's only a 2 second stealth. Probably by the time you finished using your AoE attack, the stealth was up. It's why I find it so hilarious that so many people complained about it, being such a short duration.

2 second stealth is still effective because it untargets you and unlike other MMOs, stealth can be used pretty often in combat.

[Larynx]

2 second stealth is still effective because it untargets you and unlike other MMOs, stealth can be used pretty often in combat.

It also removes the call out indicator.

[Lurker87]

I refer you to the pdf I will now use to defend myself with since I can't be bothered to parrot.

Suddenly, discussions became so much easier when I don't care about defending myself.

Drake, disagree with me on some point. You can't let this moment pass unexploited.

I'm going to have to read that later (I'm at work and don't have time). I will read it though. I probably won't agree with it because I'm not against randomness in pvp.

I'm sorry if you feel that I'm attacking you, I don't mean to come off that way, I just don't agree with your views on the subject. Nothing more than that.