A penny is a LEGAL tender.............and why they are not accept as money

[Laize]

Yes, if you pay before refueling or they have it posted in clear visibility that they don't accept notes higher than $xx.

Please point out a legal precedent or statute. I'd love to see this.

oh wait

[Deleted]

The consumer bill of rights specifically states that all legal tender in the United States has to be accepted by producers or distributors (stores). If I walk up to a candy store and flip out a 100 dollar bill, they are bound legally to be able to support that tender. Often times when a store refuses to take the tender, it's obviously not because they dont want your money but they dont have the capital at hand to accommodate. This is an issue that they need to correct. If I wanted to pay my iPhone bill in pennies, then I can. I can take a bucket of pennies, roll them and walk in drop them off at the Verizon store and they will have to take it. However, businesses do reserve the right to deny credit, debit or in more modern times, checking accounts as they are not actual currency but a transaction.

Generally however, Americans realize the necessity to do this as being fairly low and a waste of time. Take your rolled coins to the bank, like you should.

Well that is completely different to what I read on the US treasury site...Yes for debts it's all legal tender but a private buisness can refuse to accept pennies/$100 bills if they want.

[Kerath]

I was on about bank in particular, surely it is a necessity to have a coin/cash counter in a bank?

Not where I worked - we had weighing machines, but bank policy was that coins had to be sorted into denominations and bagged into the little change bags before we'd accept them - to save time and stop other customer from getting pissed off with standing in line.

[Deleted]

Please point out a legal precedent or statute. I'd love to see this.

oh wait

I think his fine wasn't for paying pennies but how he went about it.

[Urti]

The consumer bill of rights specifically states that all legal tender in the United States has to be accepted by producers or distributors (stores). If I walk up to a candy store and flip out a 100 dollar bill, they are bound legally to be able to support that tender. Often times when a store refuses to take the tender, it's obviously not because they dont want your money but they dont have the capital at hand to accommodate. This is an issue that they need to correct. If I wanted to pay my iPhone bill in pennies, then I can. I can take a bucket of pennies, roll them and walk in drop them off at the Verizon store and they will have to take it. However, businesses do reserve the right to deny credit, debit or in more modern times, checking accounts as they are not actual currency but a transaction.

Nope. First off, the Consumer bill of rights says no such thing. It's eight articless are;
The Right to Safety
The Right to Be Informed
The Right to Choose
The Right to Be Heard
The right to satisfaction of basic needs
The right to redress
The right to consumer education
The right to a healthy environment.
Secondly, the "Consumer Bill of Rights" isn't actually a thing. It was never voted on or passed into any kind of binding law. It never went past an idea in a Kennedy speach, except for in 1985 when the UN agreed that it was a good idea, and that someone should prolly institute it legally, which no one has. Private business in the US have the right to refuse service to whomever they wish, and to accept or decline payment as they wish. I can open a store and as policy, only accept livestock in barter as currency. That's perfectly legal. Not particularly bright, but legal.

[Deleted]

Please point out a legal precedent or statute. I'd love to see this.

oh wait

Unless he did something else than just paid with the pennies, that is a case of a person getting unlawfully fined with disorderly conduct (http://law.justia.com/codes/utah/201...r-09/76-9-102/). Nice "legal precedent".

[Hottie4Hire]

I think his fine wasn't for paying pennies but how he went about it.

That's correct. The link is stupid.

[Laize]

Unless he did something else than just paid with the pennies, that is a case of a person getting unlawfully fined with disorderly conduct (http://law.justia.com/codes/utah/201...r-09/76-9-102/). Nice "legal precedent".

Not my fault if the article was incomplete.

You're still the one who has to furnish proof that businesses are ever required to accept pennies. I showed you the US Treasury's website that says you don't. You show me otherwise.

[Hottie4Hire]

I have access to legal databases, I looked it up.

If you have a debt, you are allowed to pay for it with any legal US tender. This includes pennies. This is because the courts will not distinguish what type of bill or coin you use to settle a contract. The only way to avoid this is if you agree at the creation of the contract that you will not pay with pennies.

A store or government agency can refuse to accept your legal tender no matter what it is. You are attempting to create a contract and until you have paaid for the item it is not yours. They have to accept your payment for you to have the right to the item. With no contractual debt (you do not owe them money because the item is not yours), they can refuse the offer for any reason they wish.

So basically, if you owe a debt you can use them no matter what. If there is no debt involved and you are paying to get something, the store or the government can refuse any money they want no matter if it's pennies or $5 bills.

[lilatia]

Want to be a real prick? Go to gas station pump your gas and pay in pennies. you've already pumped it unless they dont want to be paid they'll take it. granted you will likely be foreced to wait out the counting. Did this a last year to a local station who's owner is a prick to everyone. I waited for him to be on shift pumped $33.52 to fill my tank and payed all in unrolled pennies. Left my CreditCard and cash at home so he had no choice but to take it or leave it.

Now my little story over with. A variable sales tax system is being worked on in sevaeral so that the total payed price get's automatically shifted up or down to the nearest 5c mark.

[Hottie4Hire]

Want to be a real prick? Go to gas station pump your gas and pay in pennies. you've already pumped it unless they dont want to be paid they'll take it. granted you will likely be foreced to wait out the counting. Did this a last year to a local station who's owner is a prick to everyone. I waited for him to be on shift pumped $33.52 to fill my tank and payed all in unrolled pennies. Left my CreditCard and cash at home so he had no choice but to take it or leave it.

Now my little story over with. A variable sales tax system is being worked on in sevaeral so that the total payed price get's automatically shifted up or down to the nearest 5c mark.

And this is one of the myriad reasons why most gas stations don't allow you to pump your gas first. But, yes, the guy legally had to accept that as payment.

[belfpala]

Want to be a real prick? Go to gas station pump your gas and pay in pennies. you've already pumped it unless they dont want to be paid they'll take it.

I don't know of any gas station that lets you pump gas before paying these days. Might just be where I live, of course.

I don't have time to do this right now... but does anyone feel like checking their contracts with cell phone providers, power companies, etc., to see if they mandate any specific forms of payment? Just curious.

[Hottie4Hire]

Actually, a store isn't required to do anything for you. The only people legally obliged to accept your money even if it's in pennies if you are paying for something is the government.

A store has every right to tell you to get the hell out. Stores reserve the right to refuse service to anybody, barring racial profiling (which is illegal, of course). And if you came into my store with a jar full of pennies trying to pay for something, I'd tell you to get out, too.

Want to note that government agencies don't have to accept this in most cases.

[Laize]

Want to note that government agencies don't have to accept this in most cases.

I'd like to see someone with the cojones to settle a tax obligation to the IRS with pennies.

---------- Post added 2012-02-27 at 07:24 PM ----------

I don't know of any gas station that lets you pump gas before paying these days. Might just be where I live, of course.

I don't have time to do this right now... but does anyone feel like checking their contracts with cell phone providers, power companies, etc., to see if they mandate any specific forms of payment? Just curious.

In the state of New Jersey (and a few others) you are not legally allowed to pump your own gas. In these cases they pump first, then you pay.

[Urti]

Want to be a real prick? Go to gas station pump your gas and pay in pennies. you've already pumped it unless they dont want to be paid they'll take it. granted you will likely be foreced to wait out the counting. Did this a last year to a local station who's owner is a prick to everyone. I waited for him to be on shift pumped $33.52 to fill my tank and payed all in unrolled pennies. Left my CreditCard and cash at home so he had no choice but to take it or leave it.

This is why 99% of gas stations require prepay now. Assholes with Pennies.

[belfpala]

In the state of New Jersey (and a few others) you are not legally allowed to pump your own gas. In these cases they pump first, then you pay.

Right, I remember that now. The closest Ikea was in NJ when I lived in NYC, used their gas stations quite a few times. They still do that? Seems so... archaic.

[achaeon]

And this is one of the myriad reasons why most gas stations don't allow you to pump your gas first. But, yes, the guy legally had to accept that as payment.

They stopped allowing pumping gas before payment in mass after Hurricane Katrina when gas prices increased dramatically. I remember because I went on a road trip from Texas -> Maine right at that time, regrettably and had to take out cash, because at the time, they weren't even letting you prepay at the pump, but you had to go inside. There are a bunch of articles about how gas stations trusted customers to pay for years leading up to that point, then had to go prepay.

As irrelevant as that fun fact seems, basically, pennies probably had little to nothing to do with that decision.

[Varabently]

To me a penny is a penny and is a legal tender but i seen these video of people pay in " penny " for parking ticket and utilities bill and that they will NOT accept them and is LEGAL TENDER just like a DOLLAR but i don't get it. I have a big jar halfway full of loose change and if i need a few dollar i roll a few and good to go and to me that MONEY and by law that institution and store must accept as money. And there have bend a few incident that bank and store REFUSES to accept this as legal tender and i call the cops and i pointed out that even thought they are roll up they REFUSES to accept them as LEGAL TENDER

and i just want to see what your opinion about the " penny or other legal coin tender " and if you bend denied service for paying in loose change or in only penny

I think you are confusing your opinion with actual law. I don't know the laws, but as far as I know you can't force pennies on someone, they can just say go away.

[noteworthynerd]

I'd like to see someone with the cojones to settle a tax obligation to the IRS with pennies.

Here's two stories of people paying their taxes in pennies (not the IRS, but still the government):
http://www.wlky.com/news/24619649/detail.html
http://www.newser.com/story/98051/ma...n-pennies.html

Google "pays taxes with pennies" and you'll get countless more... I'm sure there are some stories out there about the IRS.

[lazypeon100]

This is a bit off topic, but this whole thread has reminded me of when my mother taught me the value of money. I was 6 at the time (going on 7), my older bother and I wanted the new Pokemon Stadium game for the N64. At the time the game costed $70 (us currency), she made us sit there and count up pennies til we had $70 worth of pennies to pay for the game. It was a lonnnng night.