I'll guard you. Let them come through ME first! - Guardian discussion thread.

[Speedy92286]

I felt like the guardian has too many channeling abilities and abilities that required you to stand still for the animation. A lot of them are close range type things too, so when you have to stand still for an animation it's probably not going to work out very well in PvP. Because people are constantly moving, by the time the ability goes off they've ran out of range.

Yeah, I had this problem, too. The Guardian feels that is is too easily kited. At least the other classes can pull out a ranged weapon when this happens. In PvE this is not an issue, but in PvP this can be annoying if someone can do circles around you and your teleport spells are on CD.

@Bearcrest: I am going to give the Guardian another go in PvP but I will try out a different set up than mace and shield/hammer. The swords, both one hand and great sword, seem to be anti-range but the staff and scepter didn't really appeal to me.

[WorldofWorkcraft]

Yeah, I had this problem, too. The Guardian feels that is is too easily kited. At least the other classes can pull out a ranged weapon when this happens. In PvE this is not an issue, but in PvP this can be annoying if someone can do circles around you and your teleport spells are on CD.

@Bearcrest: I am going to give the Guardian another go in PvP but I will try out a different set up than mace and shield/hammer. The swords, both one hand and great sword, seem to be anti-range but the staff and scepter didn't really appeal to me.

I played a Guardian until 16 using mostly a Sword/Shield main then Staff secondary from 10 on in both PvE and PvP and I think it was pretty fun. Sword gives the blinkstrike-type-move (2-Flashing Blade) as well as a ranged rapid fire (3-Zealot's Defense) which I really liked. I coupled that with the Burning blink utility skill (6-Judge's Intervention) as well as the healing blink (7-Merciful Intervention) for more mobility or the ring of fire AoE (Purging Flames) for more damage. The shield provided nice support/damage with Shield of Judgment and a nifty knock-back panic button (Shield of Absorption). But yeah, people couldn't get away for very long, if at all. And the great sword does have a pull-back skill AND leap skill, so I mean I don't really see how being kited is an issue.

The staff may have been not the best choice as secondary, but I still enjoyed using the Orb or Light, AoE auto, and symbol. The Line of Warding didn't really help too much, I think it might need to be in an arcing shape and bigger. Martyr just seemed to always give me every boon, so that was useful.

I think a Hammer coupled with Sword/Shield might be nice, being able to immobilize (Zealot's Embrace), knock back/launch (Banish), then switch and blink in. Or you could do the opposite, using blink then trap them with the hammer. Again, I only really went with that combination, but I had some experience with each weapon and found them all really useful and the combinations effective for chasing down any class. I don't think I'll play a Guardian as my main, or at least not in next Beta, as I want to try out more stuff, but it's definitely a fun class!

And in Arena-ish PvP, I had 1v1's with a bunch of different classes (probably all of them) and was able to beat them. So, chasing them down with my setup wasn't hard at all to be honest, especially if you can time dodges and blinks accordingly. It really does take skill to play this game, which is awesome.

[Deleted]

Guardian doesn't just lack ranged AoE, it lacks ranged all together. It's my main problem with the profession.

When you select a profession and wants to be ranged melee-type-alike, you shouldn't pick a Guardian. Warrior or Ranger is probably what you should choose.

Guardian is all about protecting your allies and stay a live to do so. If you spec for ranged as a Guardian you probably should pcik another profession, it's not what Guardian is about.

For the AOE "issue" - there are many ways to avoid being "kited" and Sword and Greatsword prevents that, also with the scepter, lesser dps, but it's RANGED - Note Scepter is ranged and so is staff, and can stay further away from the enemy then when using staff and or Scepter - the dps isn't good, but it gives A LOT of enviromental control.
What about the mobility of Swords... There is a leap with the Greatsword a pull enemies towards you ablity. As well as the One handed Sword, there is a blink.
Where is the lack of ranged or "feeling kited"... ?

These mobility abilities combined with the signets - Bane signet and Signet of Wrath. It didn't have a "mobility issue" or "whut ranged??"

My setup for this OBWE - Greatsword 1st weapon skill - and Scepter&shield for the 2nd. I didn't feel "kited" or that I lacked anything, actually I felt a bit "overpowered".
http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/...l9ghp9f70kfap0- What I used as weapon skills and my traits.

[Speedy92286]

I played a Guardian until 16 using mostly a Sword/Shield main then Staff secondary from 10 on in both PvE and PvP and I think it was pretty fun. Sword gives the blinkstrike-type-move (2-Flashing Blade) as well as a ranged rapid fire (3-Zealot's Defense) which I really liked. I coupled that with the Burning blink utility skill (6-Judge's Intervention) as well as the healing blink (7-Merciful Intervention) for more mobility or the ring of fire AoE (Purging Flames) for more damage. The shield provided nice support/damage with Shield of Judgment and a nifty knock-back panic button (Shield of Absorption). But yeah, people couldn't get away for very long, if at all. And the great sword does have a pull-back skill AND leap skill, so I mean I don't really see how being kited is an issue.

The staff may have been not the best choice as secondary, but I still enjoyed using the Orb or Light, AoE auto, and symbol. The Line of Warding didn't really help too much, I think it might need to be in an arcing shape and bigger. Martyr just seemed to always give me every boon, so that was useful.

I think a Hammer coupled with Sword/Shield might be nice, being able to immobilize (Zealot's Embrace), knock back/launch (Banish), then switch and blink in. Or you could do the opposite, using blink then trap them with the hammer. Again, I only really went with that combination, but I had some experience with each weapon and found them all really useful and the combinations effective for chasing down any class. I don't think I'll play a Guardian as my main, or at least not in next Beta, as I want to try out more stuff, but it's definitely a fun class!

And in Arena-ish PvP, I had 1v1's with a bunch of different classes (probably all of them) and was able to beat them. So, chasing them down with my setup wasn't hard at all to be honest, especially if you can time dodges and blinks accordingly. It really does take skill to play this game, which is awesome.

Oh, I totally agree with you. I played the Guardian class the least out of the three I am going to main (Mesmer, Thief and Guardian) but when I finally traited correctly and the lag vanished, I found it to be very nice. Lag is not nice to melee at all. Also, having a Mace and shield/hammer combo is probably not the best way to go. I might have to use the Greatsword instead or try out a sword and shield combo instead as the mace and hammer really don't have ways to avoid kiting. The teleport is nice, but when you are fighting a guy who is amazing at kiting, who roots you to the spot and shoots you in the face, all while you are lagging, it is not very fun.

The next BWE I will be experimenting with the Guardian more but using a Greatsword instead of the hammer. If I like it more, then I will be using that as my off-set as I REALLY like the mace and shield (my favorite for pve and pvp). I might also change around my skill set. I think two signits might be too many. Perhaps I will pick up the shout that gives allies protection and regeneration.

[Deleted]

I love the guardian and the whole concept of it but we have serious problems with being kited, which sadly almost every class can do with ease. I actually used Sword and 2h sword and kiting was still an issue despite the mobility the temporarily give, maybe I need a scepter.

[Deleted]

Oh, I totally agree with you. I played the Guardian class the least out of the three I am going to main (Mesmer, Thief and Guardian) but when I finally traited correctly and the lag vanished, I found it to be very nice. Lag is not nice to melee at all. Also, having a Mace and shield/hammer combo is probably not the best way to go. I might have to use the Greatsword instead or try out a sword and shield combo instead as the mace and hammer really don't have ways to avoid kiting. The teleport is nice, but when you are fighting a guy who is amazing at kiting, who roots you to the spot and shoots you in the face, all while you are lagging, it is not very fun.

The next BWE I will be experimenting with the Guardian more but using a Greatsword instead of the hammer. If I like it more, then I will be using that as my off-set as I REALLY like the mace and shield (my favorite for pve and pvp). I might also change around my skill set. I think two signits might be too many. Perhaps I will pick up the shout that gives allies protection and regeneration.

Speaking from personal experience, I can definetly recommend the prot/regen shout. It's fantastic.

[Speedy92286]

Yeah, I wasn't sure if allies included you, as well or I would have gotten it already. I will try it next BWE for sure.

[Deleted]

I played Guardian a lot and I can say it felt like a dance. Guardian will sure be my main profession to start with. I played with greatsword and sword & shield as weapon swap, and it was hell fun in PvP.

[Klazmaunt]

Beta confirmed my class choice. I absolutely loved playing the guardian, whether it was PvE or PvP or WvW. I ran with a sword/shield, warhammer, scepter/shield, or staff depending on what I was doing.

The only class I ever had trouble with was a ranger if he was out of range of my teleports. Other than that I could handle anything 1 on 1 or even 2 on 1 for the most part.

The damage output was just right, less than most, but strong enough to be efficient if you knew what you were doing. I absolutely loved the 6-9 skills.

Overall I was EXTREMELY satisfied with my choice!

[Deleted]

The damage output was just right, less than most, but strong enough to be efficient if you knew what you were doing. I absolutely loved the 6-9 skills.

Overall I was EXTREMELY satisfied with my choice!

This is exactly how it was for me too =)

[eschatological]

You know how you solve kiting?

Greatsword pull into leap (which blinds) into hammer bubble trap (protects you from people trying to save their allies and your target getting away) into hammer launch (knocks down, but they only go a foot due to the bubble), into giant AOE smash. If they're still alive, you've done something wrong.

Downsides: using two 2Hs makes you pretty damn vulnerable. But I think skilling/traiting correctly can help that.

I don't see many uses for staff in PvP except as massive support - the AoE wave is meh, the ball is good both for healing and the damage on the explosion, I don't even remember the #3, the line is situational (keeping enemies away isn't really what I think of as important as guardian, and you can't aim the line far away to protect your allies), martyr is good, again, as support or as a transition into something huge damage (staff into hammer or greatsword I'm thinking).

[Klazmaunt]

I don't see many uses for staff in PvP except as massive support

I used it for a good number of my matches and I found it most useful in the Clocktower or at the Keep. It blocks passages almost perfectly, giving your teem a brief respite to get CD's back or just enough time to get behind something and heal.

The Orb worked great for large clumps of allies/enemies...heals a good chunk of health and does some damage.

The AoE shockwave is fantastic for being SUPER annoying and getting more focus on you since it's such a quick attack, then I would switch to sword/shield to take some damage while my guys beat on the other team without any worries.

The Swiftness (The third skill you were forgetting) buff helped to get out of sticky situations, whether it was a friend or me.

And finally Martyr was fantastic, as you said, for transition into another weapon set. Also helped out when it was a big 2v2 or 3v3 to get some damage off of friendlies.

Staff worked VERY well when paired with another good weapon set. I was wrecking people constantly.

[Blufossa]

I played mostly this weekend with Sword/Torch and Staff. I tried others, but those two were my main fun combos.

Also loved the Signets more than the activating utility skills, but that's just me.

I also loved running to the Human area as a Charr Guardian, and watching as people tried to kill me as I was feeding cows or watering crops. >_>

[Tyratops]

I really enjoyed the sword/shield combo with a great sword as my alternative, both are relatively decent at keeping up with classes who range/kite you.

I'm also a huge fan of both the teleport utility spells (the offensive and defensive ones).

I was playing a game on the clock tower map.. it was quite empty.. 3v3 I think and my ally was at the top of the clock tower who lost to the enemy who had captured the tower and left. I popped my teleport and it found a mesmer clone then I stole the clock tower - it was amazing.

Also in the same game an enemy on top of the tower, with me and an ally beneath him. I used the offensive teleport, hit 5 (aoe knockback) knocking him down to my ally and then teleported back down and we proceeded to kick his ass.

[starlord]

im sad, guardians seem to be ret palis 2.0 atm. far too easily kited.

[Klazmaunt]

im sad, guardians seem to be ret palis 2.0 atm. far too easily kited.

You're not doing it right then. There's at least 3 teleport skills available to the guardian, and I might be forgetting some. Two are available as 6-9 abilities.

[eschatological]

There's a blink on sword, a bind/pull on greatsword (+ a shorter range leap), and at least two skills on 7-9.

Honestly, I didn't like the MH/OH for the reason that I felt greatsword was the most mobile of the weapon sets.

[Cassandrea]

You know how you solve kiting?

Greatsword pull into leap (which blinds) into hammer bubble trap (protects you from people trying to save their allies and your target getting away) into hammer launch (knocks down, but they only go a foot due to the bubble), into giant AOE smash. If they're still alive, you've done something wrong.

Downsides: using two 2Hs makes you pretty damn vulnerable. But I think skilling/traiting correctly can help that.

I don't see many uses for staff in PvP except as massive support - the AoE wave is meh, the ball is good both for healing and the damage on the explosion, I don't even remember the #3, the line is situational (keeping enemies away isn't really what I think of as important as guardian, and you can't aim the line far away to protect your allies), martyr is good, again, as support or as a transition into something huge damage (staff into hammer or greatsword I'm thinking).

If I had fraps I would have recorded this awesome moment in WvWvW. We are getting sieged by like 40 people, and all of a sudden they all start bunching up as the door is about to go down. Me and my friend (both guardians) had a couple of elementalists guarding the door, and told them to get all their aoe ready. Right before the door went down (the enemy was all clumped up), me and my friend blinked in (and burned them in the process), he used his 2h sword to grab them and put them in, I used my Hammer to trap them and burn, then he switch to hammer and burned them and then continued the trap, and I switched to 2h sword and grabbed and pulled (to knock them down again) - mind you this was about 40-50 people inside this smalllllll space because the sword grabs anything in range.

While all this was happening, the 8 (or 7) elementalists triggered all their AoE's (the lightning, Phoenix, meteor). Needless to say my frame rate dropped to about 2fps, but when it finished... they were all dead...

most... awesome... thing... ever...

[eschatological]

Yeah, you have to be pretty on the ball to transition from the greatsword pull into the hammer bubble solo (they're both on 5 at least), but with another guardian, gg. Did you try the hammer launch (I think it's called banish, on #4) with the bubble up? Super effective, imo. It's a frontal cone, so really the only way to avoid it is to dodge through the guardian to the other side of the (still active) bubble.

[Ynna]

I don't really like breaking down posts in smaller bits, but there are multiple things I want to address.

When you select a profession and wants to be ranged melee-type-like, you shouldn't pick a Guardian. Warrior or Ranger is probably what you should choose.

I don't want to be ranged melee type. Maybe it wasn't clear, but I really enjoyed playing a Guardian. But the profession still has a couple of problems. Lack of ranged is one of them. The devs have even stated so on the official forum.
But to elaborate: why is it such a problem? Mainly: WvWvW and hard bosses in dynamic events. During a siege in WvWvW a Guardian is pretty much useless, both on offense as defense. You can do some supporting (which not every prefers) but that doesn't net you a gold contribution, which doesn't encourage this at all. All you're left to do is spam the gate for 5 minutes. During a defense, the best place to be is on the walls, raining death upon the attackers, which the Guardian just can't do. At all. You could jump down but if the attackers are even a little bit competent, you're death in 20 seconds.

Guardian is all about protecting your allies and staying alive to do so. If you spec for ranged as a Guardian you probably should pick another profession, it's not what Guardian is about.

Protecting allies does not (in any way) exclude ranged abilities. The Guardian can still be about protection even with a decent ranged attack on the Scepter.

For the AOE "issue" - there are many ways to avoid being "kited" and Sword and Greatsword prevents that, also with the Scepter, lesser dps, but it's RANGED - Note Scepter is ranged and so is Staff, and can stay further away from the enemy then when using Staff and or Scepter - the dps isn't good, but it gives A LOT of environmental control.

The range of the Scepter is laughably short. Any competent player can easily stay out of range while still attacking you. Not to mention that the Scepter is probably the least interesting weapon, apart from the Hammer. The spamable attack from the Scepter is also incredibly slow and can be easily outran or dodged. The Staff is also only moderately ranged. The first attack has a very small range. It's a good attack for short range AoE damage, but it isn't a viable ranged option. The second ability on the Staff has the longest range available to a Guardian (and a short cooldown if you don't explode it), but once again goes way too slow to be useful. The Symbol also has good range, but is easily avoided.

What about the mobility of Swords... There is a leap with the Greatsword a pull enemies towards you ability. As well as the one handed Sword, there is a blink.
Where is the lack of ranged or "feeling kited"... ?

These mobility abilities combined with the signets - Bane signet and Signet of Wrath. It didn't have a "mobility issue" or "whut ranged??"

It's perfectly possible to create a build that has no problems with ranged. I did make one (dubbing it: fuck you, ranged!), and it worked great. (Sword/Focus+Greatsword, Bane Signet, Signet of Wrath, Judge's Intervention), but the build had one enormous downside. My support capabilities (or battlefield control, for that matter) went down the drain. You can effectively deal with ranged, but you lose everything this profession is supposedly about.