New to pvp Frost mage

[Feranor]

Hunters can wreck Mages 1v1 if they're even half decent.

So, therefore, the Mage needs a person to come with him to help kill the hunter. OH GOD, THE HUNTER IS OP.

Definition of overpowered, huh?

Inb4 random BS that'll follow this.

So one class having a shot at killing you = your class facerolling every other class but one?

Unless you're playing against 3dps, there's always a defensive dispeller. And those have enough immunities to mages' debuffs anyway. There's also often a offensive dispeller on the enemy team (all Priest and Shaman teams out there, especially the high count of RLS/MLS matters) though not always, ofc.

No other class requires that amount of attention. That's the point.

[reckoner04]

No other class requires that amount of attention. That's the point.

You have to pay about the same amount of attention to every member of the enemy team. Just compare for example Locks and Mages and you'll see that they require the same amount of attention.

Also, I don't see any MMM-comps running around.
Oh, we should balance around comps, not classes? Well, Mages don't have much of an advantage there either. Locks, Shamans and Rogues (off the top of my head) are better off in that aspect (which would put Mages in at least 4th position out of 10 already).

[crylo]

So one class having a shot at killing you = your class facerolling every other class but one?

Yes, change your opinion for different classes more please.

Read what I said again. You said that was one definition of OP, it clearly is not, and doesn't mean shit. Every class has it's counter classes and if that was the case, then all of those classes are OP.

"Well, you can just bring friends." Which, ironically, is one definition of overpowered.

BTW, there's more than one class. I only stated Hunter because they're one of the least represented ones. I'd ask you if you know which others ones can but it's okay, I've read enough of your posts to know I should never take you seriously anyway. -pats you on the back-

[Feranor]

You have to pay about the same amount of attention to every member of the enemy team. Just compare for example Locks and Mages and you'll see that they require the same amount of attention.

Also, I don't see any MMM-comps running around.
Oh, we should balance around comps, not classes? Well, Mages don't have much of an advantage there either. Locks, Shamans and Rogues (off the top of my head) are better off in that aspect (which would put Mages in at least 4th position out of 10 already).

Rogues are quite overpowered as well, but that's kind of irrelevant. Warlocks are only overpowered in 3v3 Arena (as opposed to absolutely everywhere like Rogues and Mages). Shamans are relatively weak, unless you're refering to Resto, which are in a completely different category of balance.

Yes, change your opinion for different classes more please.

Read what I said again. You said that was one definition of OP, it clearly is not, and doesn't mean shit. Every class has it's counter classes and if that was the case, then all of those classes are OP.

BTW, there's more than one class. I only stated Hunter because they're one of the least represented ones. I'd ask you if you know which others ones can but it's okay, I've read enough of your posts to know I should never take you seriously anyway. -pats you on the back-

I'm not arguing with people who are so afraid of being proven wrong that they need to include a fail-safe clause in every post. I'm merely explaining. You can be as condescending as you like and play pointless semantics games all you want; I moderated a German D2 PvP league forum, anything anyone here can dish out I've weathered a hundredfold.

Hey all im a lvbl 85 frost mage who got bored of PVE and trying to get into pvp, I was wondering if anyone could give me a general spell lineup or guide to using a frost mage in pvp. I would appreciate it

You've got a truckload of instant cast AoE roots on two separate DR timers as well as two stuns (also on different DR timers), can blink out of stuns on a ridiculously low cooldown, Spellsteal, strong absorbs, Mirror Images for insane Snare spam, RoF to create a safe zone, Poly + CS to deal with adds and healers, Iceblock in case someone still manages to get through all that and you can reset all of your spell cooldowns via Cold Snap.

If you're dying in anything less than a 3v1 (unless the two classes are Hunter + Rogue (/Healer) or you're facing a Hunter in an open field) you're doing something horribly wrong.

[crylo]

I'm not arguing with people who are so afraid of being proven wrong that they need to include a fail-safe clause in every post. I'm merely explaining. You can be as condescending as you like and play pointless semantics games all you want; I moderated a German D2 PvP league forum, anything anyone here can dish out I've weathered a hundredfold.

I'm not afraid of being proven wrong at all; you couldn't even argue against what I said originally or now. In fact, you changed it to something completely different.

It was not about Mages, at all, it was about your statement, "one of the definitions of overpowered" and it actually not being one of the definitions of overpowered because it's way too flaky.

And you wondered why I added the last bit on my second post.

[rektbrah]

As a 2400 mage, I'll make a real post as oppose to these 1500 players who have been dominated by a decent mage.

Mages are not that easy, contrary to popular belief. You are your teams control, and with all the DRs on nova's now it's hard. You need to know what's happening at all times. You need to be able to call the kill target. You are the heart and soul of your team (depending on your comp)

Your main Job is to control the opposition, by putting immense pressure out with your cc/burst. Your kills come from burst, not training someone into oblivion. Mages struggle to kill healers because their damage is burst based, and you can't burst 150k hp and 5k resil.

You need focus macros/arena target for counterspell, poly, deep freeze and impact stun. You need to keybind EVERY spell (INCLUDING YOUR FROST/MAGE ARMOR, and excluding fireball, use frostfire bolt instead)

Your damage will come from shatters. This is casting a frostbolt and at the same time using your pet nova on your target to gain 2 fingers of frost.*Immediately*after frostbolt use ice lance OR frostfire bolt if brainfreeze has procc'd.*

If you can free cast, pop icy veins and cast Deep Freeze > frost bolt, ice lance, ice lance (frostfire bolt instead of icelance if it's procc'd). If you have early frost you could get off 2 frostbolts and 2 ice lances which is insane damage. Though you rarely get this opportunity.*

Fingers of frost should be used on ice lance. You will be getting trained usually so it's good to use FoF on more damage. You wont get a cast off due to everyone having an interrupt + getting trained.*

Learn to kite with CoC and clever use of your novas.*

You will need to be able to juke, because at high ratings you are the focus target (usually) for interrupts. Juking is casting a spell and stopping at halfway so people interrupt and cancel nothing, allowing you to cast again.*

Good tactics: Use deepfreeze as a CC. A good tactic I like to use is deep freeze > sheep. Even better is Deep Freeze > Blanket counterspell. This is about 7 seconds on a healer without him being able to do anything, almost as long as a sheep. (only do this if your kill target is about to die and you need an extra 2-3 seconds, NOT as a main CC)

If playing with a rogue, do what I like to call the 'stunner deal'. This is when the rogue smoke bombs, put a RoF around the bomb so no one can get in or out. If done right it's a guaranteed kill. (Make sure your target is stunned inside the Bomb.*

Against druid healers (don't see many these days) If you are dying, just chuck mage armour on and spellsteal hots. Your kiting ability + HoT Ticks will keep you up easily.*

Lastly, practice. They fact that blizz took skirmishes out of arena is ridiculous, they were a great way to get to know arenas and just muck around. Duelling people helps to, it allows you to figure out ways to beat classes in arena (the only pvp that counts), such as counterspelling DK's on 20% so they cant lichborne heal/ghoul sac/AMS or baiting a priest fear by running into him and blinking at the last second.*

Rogues are quite overpowered as well, but that's kind of irrelevant. Warlocks are only overpowered in 3v3 Arena (as opposed to absolutely everywhere like Rogues and Mages). Shamans are relatively weak, unless you're refering to Resto, which are in a completely different category of balance.

*BUZZ* wrong. Rshams/warlocks are the best arena PvP class currently. rogues are up there as well due to their damage, ability to pressure as well as peels. Mages get countered hard by the amount of interrupts in this game. Rogues do not get interrupted. Also, Rsham/Warlock is the best 2v2 comp by far. In fact, any healer/warlock is completely viable at top end. Mages are limited to priest/mage or rogue/mage. With some outliers such as r1 rets/mage

You've got a truckload of instant cast AoE roots on two separate DR timers as well as two stuns (also on different DR timers), can blink out of stuns on a ridiculously low cooldown, Spellsteal, strong absorbs, Mirror Images for insane Snare spam, RoF to create a safe zone, Poly + CS to deal with adds and healers, Iceblock in case someone still manages to get through all that and you can reset all of your spell cooldowns via Cold Snap.

If you're dying in anything less than a 3v1 (unless the two classes are Hunter + Rogue (/Healer) or you're facing a Hunter in an open field) you're doing something horribly wrong.

If you're a healer and can't get your partner to stick on a mage, you're doing something horribly wrong. Also, you're forgetting our 'strong shields' aren't so strong against dispels. Neither is our stun, or our roots. It's not mages fault healers are*incompetent.*

inb4 durp ice lance spam. Ice lance hits for 14k~ on a full resil target. that's about 10 ice lances to get a kill. Say I had all my trinkets and it hit 20k, that's still 6-7 ice lances. With FoF needing to be up. And all of them critting. And no AMS/bubble/survival instincts/shield wall/enraged regen/pain supp/lichborne/icebound fort/deterrance/cloak/vanish/cc on me/pressure on me.

That's right, the way to counter mages is to train them. Unfortunately for you the good mages can deal with it. The shit ones probably can because partners are doing something terribly, terribly wrong. Yes, mages are easy to begin with and beat other crap players. No, they are not the easiest to get high ratings with.

[Deleted]

As a 2400 mage, I'll make a real post as oppose to these 1500 players who have been dominated by a decent mage.

Mages are not that easy, contrary to popular belief. You are your teams control, and with all the DRs on nova's now it's hard. You need to know what's happening at all times. You need to be able to call the kill target. You are the heart and soul of your team (depending on your comp)

Your main Job is to control the opposition, by putting immense pressure out with your cc/burst. Your kills come from burst, not training someone into oblivion. Mages struggle to kill healers because their damage is burst based, and you can't burst 150k hp and 5k resil.

You need focus macros/arena target for counterspell, poly, deep freeze and impact stun. You need to keybind EVERY spell (INCLUDING YOUR FROST/MAGE ARMOR, and excluding fireball, use frostfire bolt instead)

Your damage will come from shatters. This is casting a frostbolt and at the same time using your pet nova on your target to gain 2 fingers of frost.*Immediately*after frostbolt use ice lance OR frostfire bolt if brainfreeze has procc'd.*

If you can free cast, pop icy veins and cast Deep Freeze > frost bolt, ice lance, ice lance (frostfire bolt instead of icelance if it's procc'd). If you have early frost you could get off 2 frostbolts and 2 ice lances which is insane damage. Though you rarely get this opportunity.*

Fingers of frost should be used on ice lance. You will be getting trained usually so it's good to use FoF on more damage. You wont get a cast off due to everyone having an interrupt + getting trained.*

Learn to kite with CoC and clever use of your novas.*

You will need to be able to juke, because at high ratings you are the focus target (usually) for interrupts. Juking is casting a spell and stopping at halfway so people interrupt and cancel nothing, allowing you to cast again.*

Good tactics: Use deepfreeze as a CC. A good tactic I like to use is deep freeze > sheep. Even better is Deep Freeze > Blanket counterspell. This is about 7 seconds on a healer without him being able to do anything, almost as long as a sheep. (only do this if your kill target is about to die and you need an extra 2-3 seconds, NOT as a main CC)

If playing with a rogue, do what I like to call the 'stunner deal'. This is when the rogue smoke bombs, put a RoF around the bomb so no one can get in or out. If done right it's a guaranteed kill. (Make sure your target is stunned inside the Bomb.*

Against druid healers (don't see many these days) If you are dying, just chuck mage armour on and spellsteal hots. Your kiting ability + HoT Ticks will keep you up easily.*

Lastly, practice. They fact that blizz took skirmishes out of arena is ridiculous, they were a great way to get to know arenas and just muck around. Duelling people helps to, it allows you to figure out ways to beat classes in arena (the only pvp that counts), such as counterspelling DK's on 20% so they cant lichborne heal/ghoul sac/AMS or baiting a priest fear by running into him and blinking at the last second.*



*BUZZ* wrong. Rshams/warlocks are the best arena PvP class currently. rogues are up there as well due to their damage, ability to pressure as well as peels. Mages get countered hard by the amount of interrupts in this game. Rogues do not get interrupted. Also, Rsham/Warlock is the best 2v2 comp by far. In fact, any healer/warlock is completely viable at top end. Mages are limited to priest/mage or rogue/mage. With some outliers such as r1 rets/mage



If you're a healer and can't get your partner to stick on a mage, you're doing something horribly wrong. Also, you're forgetting our 'strong shields' aren't so strong against dispels. Neither is our stun, or our roots. It's not mages fault healers are*incompetent.*

inb4 durp ice lance spam. Ice lance hits for 14k~ on a full resil target. that's about 10 ice lances to get a kill. Say I had all my trinkets and it hit 20k, that's still 6-7 ice lances. With FoF needing to be up. And all of them critting. And no AMS/bubble/survival instincts/shield wall/enraged regen/pain supp/lichborne/icebound fort/deterrance/cloak/vanish/cc on me/pressure on me.

That's right, the way to counter mages is to train them. Unfortunately for you the good mages can deal with it. The shit ones probably can because partners are doing something terribly, terribly wrong. Yes, mages are easy to begin with and beat other crap players. No, they are not the easiest to get high ratings with.

Great info mate, would love to hear more, and maybe even a frost mage guide? ;-)
Just out of curiosity, what do you mean when you use the term "training"?
Ty again.

[crylo]

Great info mate, would love to hear more, and maybe even a frost mage guide? ;-)
Just out of curiosity, what do you mean when you use the term "training"?
Ty again.

Training is kind of like focusing your/their (either or) damage on one target for a bit of time.

[pandacow]

frostbolt .. pet freeze .ice lance /dead

[Makarena]

I'm playing mage, bis pvp (and almost pve) gear, all that shit. I'm in top pve guild, I consider this game faceroll - I excell in almost all aspects of my main and alt's classes (I do very competitive dps and healing etcetc) BUT when it comes to pvp, I dunno, it just feels like a brick wall. Watching all these streams and videos etcetc. It just feels like when you actually play - you are always getting fucked. Everything goes wrong, you are getting trained and then blamed by ur teammates that u didn't do anything, didn't do any pressure haha. And its REALLY REALLY annoying. Like REALLY. I honestly feel like slapping all these morons in the face who say that mage is all about icelance spam.

[Feranor]

As a 2400 mage, I'll make a real post as oppose to these 1500 players who have been dominated by a decent mage.

That's like the DAoC coast guard boasting about their understanding of 8vs8.

Mages are not that easy, contrary to popular belief. You are your teams control, and with all the DRs on nova's now it's hard. You need to know what's happening at all times. You need to be able to call the kill target. You are the heart and soul of your team (depending on your comp)

DR timers on your roots? You have two of them, the "controlled" one shares DR with Entangling Roots, Ele Shaman's Earthbind Totem and Hunter pet Root; the "random" one with with Imp. Hamstring.

There's a reason why Seduce + Fear was put on the same DR. Destro Warlocks were killing stuff while keeping it CC'd. Why should Mages remain an exception to that?

The rest applies to all classes, not just Mages.

Your main Job is to control the opposition, by putting immense pressure out with your cc/burst. Your kills come from burst, not training someone into oblivion. Mages struggle to kill healers because their damage is burst based, and you can't burst 150k hp and 5k resil.

Mages have low requirement/little to no ramp-up heavy burst damage combined with two stuns and the best interrupt/silence. This is much more threatening to healers than sustained damage (the only exception being Unholy DKs thanks to Necrotic Strike and a plethora of interrupts).

You need focus macros/arena target for counterspell, poly, deep freeze and impact stun. You need to keybind EVERY spell (INCLUDING YOUR FROST/MAGE ARMOR, and excluding fireball, use frostfire bolt instead)

Again, that's the case with every class.

*BUZZ* wrong. Rshams/warlocks are the best arena PvP class currently. rogues are up there as well due to their damage, ability to pressure as well as peels.

Well, that's not disagreeing with what I wrote, at all.

Mages get countered hard by the amount of interrupts in this game. Rogues do not get interrupted.

Rogues aren't casters, so obviously they don't get interrupted. How's that relevant?

Mages are by far the least affected by interrupts among casters. They're also the least vulnerable to school locks because their important spells are spread out in 3 different schools.

Also, Rsham/Warlock is the best 2v2 comp by far. In fact, any healer/warlock is completely viable at top end. Mages are limited to priest/mage or rogue/mage. With some outliers such as r1 rets/mage

Do I get to play the "PvP is only balanced around 3v3." card now?

If you're a healer and can't get your partner to stick on a mage, you're doing something horribly wrong. Also, you're forgetting our 'strong shields' aren't so strong against dispels. Neither is our stun, or our roots. It's not mages fault healers are*incompetent.*

So what's the Mage's partner doing then?

inb4 durp ice lance spam. Ice lance hits for 14k~ on a full resil target. that's about 10 ice lances to get a kill. Say I had all my trinkets and it hit 20k, that's still 6-7 ice lances. With FoF needing to be up. And all of them critting. And no AMS/bubble/survival instincts/shield wall/enraged regen/pain supp/lichborne/icebound fort/deterrance/cloak/vanish/cc on me/pressure on me.

That's right, the way to counter mages is to train them. Unfortunately for you the good mages can deal with it. The shit ones probably can because partners are doing something terribly, terribly wrong. Yes, mages are easy to begin with and beat other crap players. No, they are not the easiest to get high ratings with.

I'm not sure you're getting the point. It seems like you think it's fair that Mages require 3 different people dedicated to countering them to feel threatened.

[Kjalar]

I'll not pretend to be a super-duper pro and will keep it simple: I feel that the spec is OP if playing it for the first time in random BGs in a crappy gear (385 ilvl PvE) I manage to kill stuff and stay alive and make opposing healers miserable with heavy CC at the same time. Try doing that with a warrior or hunter or even feral - and you'll fail badly. With frost mage it works just fine (at least for me).

I guess what the "2400 rating guy" said about serious arena-ing is true and playing frost at that level takes as much skill as playing any other spec viable at 2400+. But that's what - like 1% of players? 2%? For the majority of players frost PvP looks and IS ridiculously stupid/easy - hence OP.

[Mican17]

^ It's not, though. Maybe in BGs, but not in Arenas. Back when I mained a warrior in WotLK, I got decent ratings facerolling around with a paladin healer in 2s. I now main a frost mage, and struggle somewhat in 2s. CCing and peeling isn't that easy; we have a shit ton of tools and tunnel visioning (which is what I did as a warrior) easily leads to a loss.


"So one class having a shot at killing you = your class facerolling every other class but one?"

Riiight...one class has a shot of killing frost mages.

[Zeusy]

never forget your frostfire orb!! using it when you want the most FoF procs is very important.

[crylo]

DR timers on your roots? You have two of them, the "controlled" one shares DR with Entangling Roots, Ele Shaman's Earthbind Totem and Hunter pet Root; the "random" one with with Imp. Hamstring.

There's a reason why Seduce + Fear was put on the same DR. Destro Warlocks were killing stuff while keeping it CC'd. Why should Mages remain an exception to that?

Warlocks still have two similar skills that are on different DRs. Fear and Howl of Terror are on one; Death Coil's on another. I just think they're more similar than seduce + fear, thus better to compare.

Warlocks control, if the warlock is vigilant, is still not lacking either. Fears will also stop all damage from the target in any environment, or even heals from any source, while the roots will only stop melee and sometimes casters if the player has LoS to abuse. I suppose you'd relate Warlocks fears to Polymorph, though, if anything.

But yes, the two stuns that Mages have are kind of ridiculous and honestly I don't know why they've allowed Impact to really stay in the game or modified it yet. There isn't even an ICD on it, I've had times where it popped 2 times in a row.

[Feranor]

Warlocks still have two similar skills that are on different DRs. Fear and Howl of Terror are on one; Death Coil's on another. I just think they're more similar than seduce + fear, thus better to compare.

Warlocks control, if the warlock is vigilant, is still not lacking either. Fears will also stop all damage from the target in any environment, or even heals from any source, while the roots will only stop melee and sometimes casters if the player has LoS to abuse. I suppose you'd relate Warlocks fears to Polymorph, though, if anything.

But yes, the two stuns that Mages have are kind of ridiculous and honestly I don't know why they've allowed Impact to really stay in the game or modified it yet. There isn't even an ICD on it, I've had times where it popped 2 times in a row.

Fear and Howl of Terror are both Fear and on the same DR. Death Coil is not a Fear at all, it's Horror.

A Warlock's Fear isn't AoE and not instant, Howl of Terror has a comparatively long cooldown and neither increase their damage. Death Coil has a 2 minute cooldown.

Imagine if Warlocks could throw an instant AoE Fear/Horror every ~6 seconds and have Fel Flame deal 15-20k crits at >90% crit chance on feared targets. That would be a more fitting analogy.

[crylo]

Fear and Howl of Terror are both Fear and on the same DR. Death Coil is not a Fear at all, it's Horror.

A Warlock's Fear isn't AoE and not instant, Howl of Terror has a comparatively long cooldown and neither increase their damage. Death Coil has a 2 minute cooldown.

Imagine if Warlocks could throw an instant AoE Fear/Horror every ~6 seconds and have Fel Flame deal 15-20k crits at >90% crit chance on feared targets. That would be a more fitting analogy.

Yes, they are not classified as the same thing, just like a controlled root isn't a random root.. but they have the same effect. That's why I said they're better to compare; same effect, different classification.

And every 6 seconds? Frost Nova's on a 20s CD, Freeze is a 25s CD, and CoC is every 10s. Unless you mean every 6 seconds they're able to, but that's still saying they can use it more than they really can. That's mainly so Mages can kite, anyway, and that's due to Blizzards way of creating survivability for Mages. They wouldn't need so many if Blizzard took an alternative route with Mage survivability. Yes, they have more tools of survivability than just that, but as it's been said.. past 2400 teams typically can pressure a Mage pretty well; more than most people think.

It wouldn't be the same though, Fears completely make the player lose control of their character unless they get dispelled by some means. Roots just keep you in place, but you're still able to do things.. even dispel yourself depending on what you're playing. o-o

But anyways, I have a friend who says he can easily lock out a healer by himself as a Warlock for 20s+ not to mention the CC from his team mates mixed in. They aren't lacking in CC, in fact, they can cover their CC as well. That was my main point, really. xD And yes, while Warlocks are not bursty, their damage is fine.

Edit: Apparently we're hijacking the thread tho. ):

[Shaderas]

Fear and Howl of Terror are both Fear and on the same DR. Death Coil is not a Fear at all, it's Horror.

A Warlock's Fear isn't AoE and not instant, Howl of Terror has a comparatively long cooldown and neither increase their damage. Death Coil has a 2 minute cooldown.

Imagine if Warlocks could throw an instant AoE Fear/Horror every ~6 seconds and have Fel Flame deal 15-20k crits at >90% crit chance on feared targets. That would be a more fitting analogy.

Stop hijacking the thread!


Anyways, to the OP, there is some decent advice in here, you may also want to post in your class forum as well... this thread is likely to break out any moment into open flaming and could get locked.

[rektbrah]

That's like the DAoC coast guard boasting about their understanding of 8vs8.

Don't know what you're talking about in DAoC, never played it. I'm just some stupid WoW kid. Also I'm not sure if you've looked at the ladder recently for 3v3, but 2200 is top 50 so 2400 isn't too shabby these days.

DR timers on your roots? You have two of them, the "controlled" one shares DR with Entangling Roots, Ele Shaman's Earthbind Totem and Hunter pet Root; the "random" one with with Imp. Hamstring.

There's a reason why Seduce + Fear was put on the same DR. Destro Warlocks were killing stuff while keeping it CC'd. Why should Mages remain an exception to that?

The rest applies to all classes, not just Mages.

Pet nova + frost nova share DR. This is why it's difficult because you have to manage them properly. You can't just use whichever you want whenever you want.

Mages have low requirement/little to no ramp-up heavy burst damage combined with two stuns and the best interrupt/silence. This is much more threatening to healers than sustained damage (the only exception being Unholy DKs thanks to Necrotic Strike and a plethora of interrupts).

The only requirement we have is to be able to cast. Ice lance spamming isn't good burst. Interrupts are too common in arena to get them off properly. Juking only gets you so far and woop you've juked 2 interrupts and bam your burst opportunity is gone.

Again, that's the case with every class.

This wasn't directed at you. This is for the OP. many mages don't bind frost armour/mage armour and go oom and just sit there

Well, that's not disagreeing with what I wrote, at all.

Because you said warlocks weren't good in 2v2...

Rogues aren't casters, so obviously they don't get interrupted. How's that relevant?

Mages are by far the least affected by interrupts among casters. They're also the least vulnerable to school locks because their important spells are spread out in 3 different schools.

It's relevant because rogues can do the same amount of burst without being interrupted. Least affected? This is funny. When your frost tree gets locked you can't block for 6 seconds or peel. You can sheep, but that's about it. Fire tree never gets locked and I don't see how it does considering the only fire spells are instant. Locking out a frost mage is no different from locking out a spriest, who can just spam mind spike after shadow was kicked.

So what's the Mage's partner doing then?

Peeling. Hopefully. What else can he be doing? TRAINING DA HEELER?????

I'm not sure you're getting the point. It seems like you think it's fair that Mages require 3 different people dedicated to countering them to feel threatened.

Hardly. It takes 3 retards or 1 good player.

Great info mate, would love to hear more, and maybe even a frost mage guide? ;-)
Just out of curiosity, what do you mean when you use the term "training"?
Ty again.

Lol was thinking about one, I'm pretty sure there's a few on Arena Junkies if you're interested in reading.

Training simply refers to tunnelling someone, just pretty much sticking on one player and only focusing damage on him. Constant damage, not burst damage though.

[McDuffy]

Can't wait to dust off my mage and get back to it!