What makes Gw2 Revolutionary and Promising to you.

[Repefe]

I am agreeing with you, firstly. Secondly, I am pointing out the trinity in MMOs was never intended to support PVP. PVP became popular after that role convention had been established/popular. The trouble isn't a hard trinity, the trouble is allowance of PVP with a hard trinity.

Yeah ... but then the logical question is why has nobody done anything about it

[Fencers]

Well, devs have tried. DAOC though problematic in certain areas was pretty much made with PVP as the principle goal. Or Shadowbane to a lesser extent. Warhammer as well, but that had many systemic and technical problems best left for another thread.

The answer is World of Warcraft is goddamn huge. Honestly, that's the problem. Though I enjoy WoW, it's popularity & monopoly has prob. done more harm for the genre than good. Esp. with the escalating costs of development vis-a-vis a 7+ year polished game. It's hard for devs to take risks and still compete with the Blizzard Behemoth.

Anet might be in the "right time/right place" more so than having some radical ideas. Which is basically what WoW was in 2003 to EQ.

[smelltheglove]

i like that they appear to be taking a strong stance against griefing and general bad behavior. hopefully they live up to it. im so sick of wow community i rarely log on any more, and never run anything because i seem to get asshats in every dungeon

[DrakeWurrum]

Anet might be in the "right time/right place" more so than having some radical ideas. Which is basically what WoW was in 2003 to EQ.

Probably true, since a lot of players are... I would say, at best, burned out on the WoW design.

[Fencers]

Hopefully the actual revolution GW2 brings is a broadening of the genre.

I personally enjoy games like Rift and SWTOR, but in truth- they each made what was WoW in space/WoW sans Orcs. That's not pushing the genre like at all.

[DrakeWurrum]

I personally enjoy games like Rift and SWTOR, but in truth- they each made what was WoW in space/WoW sans Orcs. That's not pushing the genre like at all.

Precisely why I didn't jump on the bandwagon when people were jumping ship, citing WoW being a terrible game as the reason.

[Deleted]

I've finally been able to pinpoint what makes GW2 promising to me. It's a game which lets you fail.

Let's move back a step to single player games. The vast majority of single-player games have certain objectives, right? It could be "reach this object in a certain time" or "kill all hostiles" or anything else, really. And if you fail to do that... most likely you're either forced to restart the latest segment of the game, or you'll load a previous save of your own volition in order to get a superior result.

This has been adopted by most MMOs. If there's a quest which you fail, you'll have to either restart it or just ignore it. There's no actual sense of consequence. Nothing bad happens. Sure, if it's an escort quest, a random NPC might die, but who cares? He'll be alive by the time you get back to take the quest again anyway.

I'm going to make many people upset now by mentioning World of Warcraft. Shockhorror. The quests there are typically generic, and you can only move past a quest in a chain if you succeed. However, there is one quest that stands out, in the Storm Peaks section of Northrend. It sends you to recover something, and you fail. Then you complete the quest. When I did that, I just stared at the screen for a good five minutes before it hit me - this is the first time in the game that my character had actually, legitimately failed something. And it felt great. Suddenly my character felt realistic. Sadly Blizzard did this with one quest only, all others still give you the sense you're an infallable hero.

So this is what I look forward to about GW2. Failing to accomplish an objective is actually an acceptable outcome. And what's more, it has an actual consequence upon the world. There's no "go back and do it again", and there's no "I can do anything without fail". If you fail, you fail, and you'll have to try harder in the next objective.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

[Voidism]

[snip]

Very good point. I agree with you. If you fail, you get new objectives also which is great.
You get to 'try again', but with different parameters.

[Squirrelbanes]

Aye.......very real worldly Once of the things I really like, it's a very fluid and natural game.........or I guess you could say dynamic

[rol3x]

Myself and my friends can play whatever characters we want at whatever level we want and still play together, we all play different amounts per week so its a huge deal for us

[Jovanaar]

Promising; It's Guild Wars, made by ArenaNet.. enough said.

[Hellspawnxxx]

I dont think its Revolutionary. Its not breaking boundries or reinventing the wheel. Dynamic Events are still a form of questing and with the exception of the downed stat everything else ive seen in someway shape or form.

But that being said Guildwars 2 will defently be an amazing game. I dont think im gonna fall in love with it like I did with Guildwars 1 or WoW cause youll never get that OMG this is amazing feeling again. But I think whats gonna make the diffrence in GW2 and what gives me confidence of its sustainability. Is the Developers it really seems as though the Designers care about not just making money but also about the gamers.

GW2 + MoP = Me Happy for many years to come...

[DrakeWurrum]

youll never get that OMG this is amazing feeling again

I think you'll be surprised.

[Malthurius]

I dont think its Revolutionary. Its not breaking boundries or reinventing the wheel. Dynamic Events are still a form of questing and with the exception of the downed stat everything else ive seen in someway shape or form.

But that being said Guildwars 2 will defently be an amazing game. I dont think im gonna fall in love with it like I did with Guildwars 1 or WoW cause youll never get that OMG this is amazing feeling again. But I think whats gonna make the diffrence in GW2 and what gives me confidence of its sustainability. Is the Developers it really seems as though the Designers care about not just making money but also about the gamers.

GW2 + MoP = Me Happy for many years to come...

I agree 100% except for what DrakeWurrum mentioned and the bit about "dynamic events being another form of questing".

WoW Leveling ---------------------------- Rift Leveling ----------------------------- GW2 Leveling
Standard Quests <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Public Events

Standard Quests - You talk to an NPC, receive a task to accomplish either tuned for 1 person to do solo or as a group of 2-5 (usually). Once done with the task the quest is turned back into an NPC and a reward is obtained.

Public Events - Something happens in the world and you participate in it. Content scales to what ever number of players are there. Once done you obtain a reward automatically for your participation.

What do these 2 have in common?
They Progress the story of the zone.
They Progress your character in levels and provide rewards when completed

What does standard questing have to offer thay Public Events cannot?
A consistent experience for a single player.
A sense of permanent accomplishment since most quests cannot be repeated more than once.
Easy to track what you have and haven't done.
Can be finished and done with.

What does Public Events have to offer that standard questing cannot?
A repeatable experience.
A variable experience because of scaling.
Can come about at unexpected moments.
A sense of world. Events happen based on success or failure of players in the zone and have consequences.


Basically, what I'm trying to say is that calling Dynamic events just "another form of questing" is incredibly blunt and a bit inaccurate.

[Deleted]

The entire game looks fresh to me from the scenarios (yes we have seen similar in other games but not to this scale or perfection) to downscaling of characters in different zones and the combat system, they have made some huge changes to your normal MMO game and I cant wait to try it out.

[DrakeWurrum]

It's important to note that with Dynamic Events, you really don't just run up to an NPC who tells you "Hey, this town is under attack, go kill 10 centaur!"

The town is literally under attack by centaur, NPCs being attacked and all and calling out for help. The idea being that you, as an adventuring hero, should go save the day!
Then you go save the day, and you automatically get rewarded.

[Hellspawnxxx]

I think you'll be surprised.

No I Wont. Infact not only MMO's but most new games even if they are better then the previous version dont excite me the same way as when I first played the genre. Its human nature we become Use to things. The MMO / FPS / RTS Genres are not making anyone scream OMG its awesome ahhhhhh wooo hooo. Infact people moan and complain everytime a new game comes out cause it didnt live up to thier expectations because peoples expectations are too high.

Guildwars 2 is an MMO looks alittle better has a few new toys I havent seen yet. But at its core 80% of its design ive been there done that x5 times over.

---------- Post added 2012-03-15 at 04:09 PM ----------

I agree 100% except for what DrakeWurrum mentioned and the bit about "dynamic events being another form of questing".

WoW Leveling ---------------------------- Rift Leveling ----------------------------- GW2 Leveling
Standard Quests <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Public Events

Standard Quests - You talk to an NPC, receive a task to accomplish either tuned for 1 person to do solo or as a group of 2-5 (usually). Once done with the task the quest is turned back into an NPC and a reward is obtained.

Public Events - Something happens in the world and you participate in it. Content scales to what ever number of players are there. Once done you obtain a reward automatically for your participation.

What do these 2 have in common?
They Progress the story of the zone.
They Progress your character in levels and provide rewards when completed

What does standard questing have to offer thay Public Events cannot?
A consistent experience for a single player.
A sense of permanent accomplishment since most quests cannot be repeated more than once.
Easy to track what you have and haven't done.
Can be finished and done with.

What does Public Events have to offer that standard questing cannot?
A repeatable experience.
A variable experience because of scaling.
Can come about at unexpected moments.
A sense of world. Events happen based on success or failure of players in the zone and have consequences.


Basically, what I'm trying to say is that calling Dynamic events just "another form of questing" is incredibly blunt and a bit inaccurate.

Thank god an Intellectual that I can do battle with. Im glad you posted that because thats the arguement of a glass half full kind of person which is great BTW you seem like a smart positive person. I on the other hand am a half empty kind of person Im a smart but negative person. But regardless of how we see the glass its still in the middle and so is Dynamic Events / Questing.

Quest is Static yes but what is a Quest at its core. Forget about the means in how you start or obtain a Quest what is the Core Design of a Quest. Its you complete a set task in a set area for a set award. example Kill X amount of something / gather x of something / kill this (insert name here) boss so on and so forth....

Dynamic Events when you enter an area and it activates, The Core of the Dynamic event is pretty well the same as a Traditional Quest its still Kill X amount of Pirates or for X amount of Time / Gather x amount of rabbits / watermellons (In the game BTW not made up) and still the Kill this (insert name) Boss.

Thats like saying The Waltz and the Tango because they differ is some aspects mean they shouldnt both be considered dancing.

Dynamic Events at its Core as in what you do to complete the Event and or Quest is more alike then dislike. The Bulk of what your doing is the same. heres another example of what I mean.

Time Tables for the Mechanics of a Quest versus a Dynamic Event.

Starting Quest 10-20 Secs to talk to a Quest Giver Look at what the Objective and rewards
End Quest 10 secs to choose what reward you want.

Starting Dynamic Event 10-20 Secs Looking at the World Map Deciding what DE you wish to go to Entering area and auto starts.
End of Dynamic Event 10 secs to choose reward.

Right there those are the only 2 real diffrences about Quest and Dynamic Events about 30 Secs Worth of diffrent activation / Ending Methods.

But The rest of the time your still in some sort of conflict or gathering mechanic that both games provide.

Now if ANET designed thier Dynamic Events using something other then a Kill X or Gather X formula then i could see the radical diffrences bettewen the 2 games.

[Snow White]

I wonder is anyone is going to ask "wtf where are all the quests?"

[Klutzington]

The fact that they're trying to turn the entire MMORPG genre up side-down.

Question everything.

I agree entirely.

[DrakeWurrum]

Dynamic Events when you enter an area and it activates, The Core of the Dynamic event is pretty well the same as a Traditional Quest its still Kill X amount of Pirates or for X amount of Time / Gather x amount of rabbits / watermellons (In the game BTW not made up) and still the Kill this (insert name) Boss.

Prove it. Quite frankly, you haven't played any DEs, and you have no idea just how similar they are.

---------- Post added 2012-03-15 at 11:50 AM ----------

No I Wont. Infact not only MMO's but most new games even if they are better then the previous version dont excite me the same way as when I first played the genre. Its human nature we become Use to things. The MMO / FPS / RTS Genres are not making anyone scream OMG its awesome ahhhhhh wooo hooo. Infact people moan and complain everytime a new game comes out cause it didnt live up to thier expectations because peoples expectations are too high.

It's cute when they sound so sure of themselves that they predict the future and go on to praise themselves as geniuses.

If a dragon is attacking, you won't read three paragraphs telling you about it, you'll see buildings exploding in giant balls of fire, and hear characters in the game world screaming about a dragon attack. You'll hear guards from nearby cities trying to recruit players to go help fight the dragon, and see huge clouds of smoke in the distance, rising from the village under siege.

Edit: You might find this video interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO_TCJ-6JZc
Note that it's not "kill X Grawl" - you just have a progress bar that can go up and down as the battle progresses. In other words, you can fail the "quest" and it will have actual persistent-world consequences. Success of the "quest" also has persistent-world consequences that can cause more events to take place.
It's not a set chain of quests that NPCs hand you the way it works in WoW. It's a living, breathing world, with events actually happening in the world, and you having an actual impact in how it unfolds.