Mists of Pandaria Buff and Debuff Design

[Dawn Falcon]

Shadowpriests have nothing beyond their 2 buffs, and stamina is the first buff you'd drop.

Vampiric dominance.

[Pasture]

People should stop whining about the fact the 5% haste buff is only given to Balance druids, Shadow priests, Elemental shaman ...Why ? Because those 3 specs ALSO deserve a raiding spot in 10man set-ups ...

Just because they deserve a space doesn't mean they will have one. A typical 10 man dps makeup will be 2 melee, a hunter and two casters. We shouldn't have to force our long term mage or warlock to drop a spot for a brand new hybrid dps. Giving a huge caster buff like that only to the hybrid dps just doesn't make sense.*

[MasterOutlaw]

"Bleeds no longer made sense, since everyone who cared about bleeds already buffed themselves."

Um, except that's not true. Combat Rogue's Rupture was not buffed by Rogues, it was buffed by Druids, for example.

No, what he said is still valid. The only classes that really truly relied on bleed damage provided their own debuff. That would have been Feral Druids, Arms Warriors, and to a lesser degree Subtlety Rogues. Rupture hasn't been a major staple of Combat's rotation in ages (barely a 1% DPS gain when there's a debuff present) and the only reason Assassination bothers with it is because Venomous Wounds is tied to it and not because of how much damage it does on its own, even with a Mangle debuff.

Rogues might have bleeds, but that isn't one of our main sources of damage (at least directly) unlike the classes GC was alluding to.

[smegdawg]

Woo no more boomkins giving out the 8% magic debuff. I don't trust those feathery bastards.

[acelora]

Did you even look at the buff list?
Moonkins have: 5% Stats and 5% Spellhaste
Shadows have: 10% Stamina and 5% Spellhaste
Elementals have: 10% Spellpower, 5 Mastery and 5 % Spellhaste
Further:
Moonkins provide: 1 Battlerez and tranquility
Shamans: Healing Rain (which can be talented for 10% magic damage reduction), a self-rez and most important - Heroism.
Shadowpriests have nothing beyond their 2 buffs, and stamina is the first buff you'd drop.

And also, no, other classes don't need the spell haste buff, not without buffing (Shadow) Priests and possible Druids in the Buff department.


Mages have 10% Spellpower, 5% crit and heroism. They don't need more.

since you mention tranquility and healing rain as part of what druids and shamans can bring. priests can also do 2 hymns that would benefit the raid in the same way.

[Kaesebrezen]

Vampiric dominance.

Vampiric Embrace was neglectable, so will be Vampiric Dominance. 15% on 3 low health targets (which will be 5% on each target) won't cut it. That's still neglectable, because healers will bump in their big heals on those low health targets.

priests can also do 2 hymns that would benefit the raid in the same way.

Divine Hymn is Holy exclusive as it currently stands, and Hymn of Hope is disc exclusive. So nope, shadows don't have them.

[crushinator]

Maybe people will finally learn how to raid like the olden days when you had to swap out for classes that did more damage or brought some unique buff to the fight. Hybrid classes shouldn't be able to do everything as well as a pure dps or a main tank spot. You're a HYBRID, you're there to fill in any spots or change things up when a fight calls for it. You shouldn't be able to fit every single damn role in the game and excel at it or you lose the entire point of having certain classes have different play styles. Tired of all the generic crap that has been thrown into the game so everyone can do whatever they want, whenever they want.

[Darkguyver2020]

Maybe people will finally learn how to raid like the olden days when you had to swap out for classes that did more damage or brought some unique buff to the fight. Hybrid classes shouldn't be able to do everything as well as a pure dps or a main tank spot. You're a HYBRID, you're there to fill in any spots or change things up when a fight calls for it. You shouldn't be able to fit every single damn role in the game and excel at it or you lose the entire point of having certain classes have different play styles. Tired of all the generic crap that has been thrown into the game so everyone can do whatever they want, whenever they want.

Of course. Another elitist who thinks they know better. I'm pretty sure you'd be happy to be benched and be unable to experience all of the content just because you enjoy playing a hybrid class. Being forced to level and gear an alt just because the fight calls for it. That's not fun. Last I checked, this was a video game. The only factor should be the person playing the class, not the way the game was designed.

[rogas]

hybrid classes and 40man raiding (even 25man) is a thing from the past .... The majority of raiding guilds are 10man these days, so the former 'hybrid' classes can use this boost !If you want this 5% haste buff ... just change ya raid-setup and invite a Balance druids/Shadow priests/Elemental shaman for a change...

[cyryc]

Another class needs 8% magic reduction, rogue and warlock only doesn't seem like enough. Moonkins and Hunters (pet) losing it doesn't seem the best.

This.

SPriest plz

[Odina]

There should just be an option when you join a group that pops up and you select what buffs you want active. You get 8 /10 people in a 10 man you can only pic 8 of the buff / de-buffs. Same in pvp 25 mans etc. To balance 10 and 25 man you just let them get 2 buffs per person in the 10 man group and have int, stam, mastery etc as baseline to make up the 5 missing between 2 per in 10 man and 25 man buffs.

This would hit the "you are more powerful grouped up, bring the player not the class, and eliminate "we don't want players going the spec they hate just to bring a buff". Then again when Spec XYZ drops to like 1% of the player base playing they would actually have to work at fixing it with this scenario...so GL getting that in place!

[ihaz]

how about melees buffs casters
and casters buffs melees?

[Gwynedd]

Mages have 10% Spellpower, 5% crit and heroism. They don't need more.

I am referring solely to the debuff list.

[Deleted]

I might have given this to any priest, any mage, and maybe any warlock. I'm not seeing priests or mages bringing any debuffs to the table and it's completely irrelevant for rogues (unless poisons are turning into magical effects?????), whom already cover most of the other debuffs.

Did it occur to you that poisons are "magical effects"? Which are currently (along with their mechanics and supporting abilities) ~66% of a mut rogue's damage. On another note, now we get 10% haste, w00t!

+5 mastery buff is gonna be awesome!

And whoever said that 5% crit buff is gone, /facepalm.

[Cernunnos]

And whoever said that 5% crit buff is gone, /facepalm.

They could have been referring to Fury Warriors. Because in MOP Fury no longer brings the 5% crit buff, they used to bring via Rampage. Rampage is removed in MOP.





They have a 30% crit buff, but only for 15 seconds via the level 87 talent War banner.

[Okacz]

All those changes leading to the state where every raid has the same amount of buffs (read: every buff) is a bit weird. Buffs provided by classes were designed to make raidmaking in wow difficult. Do I take a frost DK for haste buff, or maybe enh shamsn for Bloodlust, even tho our enh shaman is worse? We wont see this question anymore. Evenybody has all buffs now. This state is strange. When buffs are so cheap, why do they even exist now? Blizzard should either remove then or, like somebody had suggested already, give 'a sack of buffs' at the beginning of a raid. Or maybe simply return to a great system, where class buffs were unique, and everybody felt needed in some way.

[Cernunnos]

Or maybe simply return to a great system, where class buffs were unique, and everybody felt needed in some way.

In some cases, all it did was bench classes/players in favour of others because they brought certain buffs. Certain buffs you "have" to have, such as Bloodlust.

In 25 man it's not so much a problem as to total number of classes you might hve is higher so the chances of you having a class that brings that buff is quite high, but in 10 man, you can find yourself without certain buffs/debuffs quite easily.


And that was the reason for giving other classes the buffs like bloodlust.


Prot Paladin
Prot Warrior
Rogue
Fury Warrior
Warlock
Mage
Spriest
Holy paladin
Disc priest
Resto druid

Without the mage and the changes for cata, a group comp like that in a 10 man run would not have bloodlust.

[Bombkirby]

Just don't agree with you, that was the point of playing 25man, to have all buffs and be stronger.
I think their doing this to simple things up, and make classes even less unique, this way is easier to go for 10man focus, i'll not be surprised at all if 25man is removed from the game at this point, btw i'm a 10man player that raided about 2-3weeks in 25 and felt in love with it.

No....in general. Thats what they literally do. They make you stronger when you group up. ...come on guys open your minds, there's more to WoW than raids... I'm talking about game design. You can't disagree with a fact.

You ARE stronger when playing with other people... so playing with others is beneficial, and you're rewarded by treating WoW like a MMO rather than a single player game.

[rogas]

Prot PaladinProt WarriorRogueFury WarriorWarlockMageSpriestHoly paladinDisc priestResto druid

OFC why didn't i think about that; blizz should give you guys all the buffs/debuffs this game has to offer. That way the other 20 benched specs can watch you go raiding ...Ah i get it, we all should reroll one of those specs/classes right?

[davep]

I think it should go like this. Basically if the buff benefits you greatly you should get it. Only things I didn't fill out is Crit, Mastery, Casting Speed and Healing Received.
+5% Stats: Any Druid, Any Paladin, Any Shaman, Any Monk
+10% Stamina: Any tank spec
+10% Melee/Ranged: Any melee dps spec
+10% Spellpower: Any caster spec including healers
+10% Melee Haste: Any melee dps spec
+5% Spell Haste: Any caster spec including healers
+5% Crit:
+5 Mastery:

-12% armor: Any melee spec including tanks
+4% physical damage: Any melee dps spec
+8% spell dmg: Any caster dps spec
-10% phys dmg done: Any tank spec
-30% casting speed:
-25% healing received: