[Megathread] DotA 2

[Morally Grey Storm]

I managed to grab Aghanim+Cuirass+ HoD, and BKB, so no buriza, just raw power , but still got the job done )


edit: йо~

[PizzaSHARK]

Couple of questions.

First, if Juggy doesn't go for a Battle Fury, what kind of items would you normally get on him? I ended up with a Diffusal (they had Medusa), and Diffusal seemed really good on him... hit, purge, spin, win. Seems like Lothars would make that even better.

If you're going for a teamfight Anti-Mage instead of an AFK farming Battle Fury Anti-Mage, what kind of items would you get after Vanguard? Just go straight for a Manta Style, or?

Also, I might have to revise my opinion on Crystal Maiden. She's still too slow, but if you can get enough HP on her (I had urn, drums, and BKB), her ulti can do a LOT of damage in a teamfight. Still seems kind of inconsistent for use against one or two enemies, though... maybe her scepter upgrade could increase the AOE of each individual snowblob?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Couple of questions.

First, if Juggy doesn't go for a Battle Fury, what kind of items would you normally get on him? I ended up with a Diffusal (they had Medusa), and Diffusal seemed really good on him... hit, purge, spin, win. Seems like Lothars would make that even better.

If you're going for a teamfight Anti-Mage instead of an AFK farming Battle Fury Anti-Mage, what kind of items would you get after Vanguard? Just go straight for a Manta Style, or?

it all depends on specific situation and setup.
usually its indeed BFury(with possible Aghanim afters), this time you picked Diffusal because situation demanded it and it was suitable, next time Desolator might appear as a good choice, hell, even MKB can be a good choice under specific circumstances.
there is nothing set in stone, thaths the charm

Also, I might have to revise my opinion on Crystal Maiden. She's still too slow, but if you can get enough HP on her (I had urn, drums, and BKB), her ulti can do a LOT of damage in a teamfight. Still seems kind of inconsistent for use against one or two enemies, though... maybe her scepter upgrade could increase the AOE of each individual snowblob?

Wont you try support CM?
skill Nova and Bite once, then max aura, then learn + stats till 10 lvl, after 11 lvl you can up Frostbite, and after that - nova.
building her with Tranqboots+ a couple bracers+Point booster makes her tanky enough to set up some nasty stuff.

[Deleted]

Couple of questions.

First, if Juggy doesn't go for a Battle Fury, what kind of items would you normally get on him?

If anything, Battle Fury is an exception and not a rule. When I see people build it on Jugg/PA/BH, the majority of the time I'm just asking myself "why bother?"

[Sackman]

I managed to grab Aghanim+Cuirass+ HoD, and BKB, so no buriza, just raw power , but still got the job done )


edit: йо~

I think people should start calling Buriza Daedalus. Same for many other items, while some are easily exchanged (Lothar's/Shadow Blade), (Bounty Hunter/Gondar) things like Buriza and Daedalus are not. Lothar's and SB and BH and Gondar are kinda like switching between <what they are> / <what we call them>. Buriza and Daedalus is <what we call them> \ <what we call them>.

Got to choose one or the other, or use the right one when speaking about dota/2 respectively.

[Hermanni]

First, if Juggy doesn't go for a Battle Fury, what kind of items would you normally get on him? I ended up with a Diffusal (they had Medusa), and Diffusal seemed really good on him... hit, purge, spin, win. Seems like Lothars would make that even better.

With these items you can outrun the big bad opwolf. But seriously, Treads + Drums into anything make Juggernaut a pretty serious powerhouse early on.

As for Anti-Mage, there's a lot of ways to go about early game or economy build, Vlad's can be really good pick-up, or Yasha and early Basher, or just casual vit booster instead of a whole Vanguard. But Manta is still really good.

[Sarevokcz]

I think people should start calling Buriza Daedalus. Same for many other items, while some are easily exchanged (Lothar's/Shadow Blade), (Bounty Hunter/Gondar) things like Buriza and Daedalus are not. Lothar's and SB and BH and Gondar are kinda like switching between <what they are> / <what we call them>. Buriza and Daedalus is <what we call them> \ <what we call them>.

Got to choose one or the other, or use the right one when speaking about dota/2 respectively.

What is the difference between Lothar/SB and Buriza/Daedalus? Why would you mind one but not the other? And really, as long as everyone knows what they are talking about, why should we care if they prefer to call items or heroes by their old name? Alot of people still use Guinsoos for Scythe or Panda for Brewmaster

[PizzaSHARK]

Wont you try support CM?
skill Nova and Bite once, then max aura, then learn + stats till 10 lvl, after 11 lvl you can up Frostbite, and after that - nova.
building her with Tranqboots+ a couple bracers+Point booster makes her tanky enough to set up some nasty stuff.

That's about what I did. Nova and frostbite, two points in aura, then everything else, taking ulti at 10 and 11. I still think her aura could benefit her team more since 2 mp/sec regen for 4 points is pretty meh, but doubling its effects for herself at least made it useful to CM... had about 6 mp/sec regen by 20-25 mins.

If anything, Battle Fury is an exception and not a rule. When I see people build it on Jugg/PA/BH, the majority of the time I'm just asking myself "why bother?"

My understanding was because it makes him good at pushing and the regen helps him fuel constant skill use. I just went Soul Ring to eliminate mana issues.

[Deleted]

My understanding was because it makes him good at pushing and the regen helps him fuel constant skill use. I just went Soul Ring to eliminate mana issues.

If I was desperate for regen, I'd just get Orchid/Medallion and a point in Ward. Pushing as Jugg is probably going to center more on how well you take down the towers anyway, Bfury is a farm item.

[Hermanni]

If I was desperate for regen, I'd just get Orchid/Medallion and a point in Ward. Pushing as Jugg is probably going to center more on how well you take down the towers anyway, Bfury is a farm item.

Aquila/Vlads is pretty good, paired with tread swapping and Drums you should have more than enough mana regen. But what you said or Urn aren't bad either.

[OscaR]

it all depends on specific situation and setup.
usually its indeed BFury(with possible Aghanim afters), this time you picked Diffusal because situation demanded it and it was suitable, next time Desolator might appear as a good choice, hell, even MKB can be a good choice under specific circumstances.
there is nothing set in stone, thaths the charm


Wont you try support CM?
skill Nova and Bite once, then max aura, then learn + stats till 10 lvl, after 11 lvl you can up Frostbite, and after that - nova.
building her with Tranqboots+ a couple bracers+Point booster makes her tanky enough to set up some nasty stuff.

Personally I don't think maxing aura is that good. I prefer to max nova then bite and skip ulti at 6.

[Longview]

If you've watched Merlini play Juggernaut, you'd be surprised how effective BoTs into Radiance can be. It does depend on what your team composition is (and what you're up against, obviously). If you want to push early, get a Vlads early. Manta Style is also a great item on him, as is Shadow Blade. Do not buy Aghanim's Scepter before any other damage items, please.

[Lysah]

Couple of questions.

First, if Juggy doesn't go for a Battle Fury, what kind of items would you normally get on him? I ended up with a Diffusal (they had Medusa), and Diffusal seemed really good on him... hit, purge, spin, win. Seems like Lothars would make that even better.

If you're going for a teamfight Anti-Mage instead of an AFK farming Battle Fury Anti-Mage, what kind of items would you get after Vanguard? Just go straight for a Manta Style, or?

Also, I might have to revise my opinion on Crystal Maiden. She's still too slow, but if you can get enough HP on her (I had urn, drums, and BKB), her ulti can do a LOT of damage in a teamfight. Still seems kind of inconsistent for use against one or two enemies, though... maybe her scepter upgrade could increase the AOE of each individual snowblob?

Don't ever go BF on Jugg. Go BoT/radiance and you'll have a lot more fun.

Edit:
Hey look, longview just said this too. Yeah, I lost a game to Merlini doing this. I started out like 12-1 as Spiritbreaker and our team was completely walking all over his. He just kept his head down and used BoT to teleport around and farm. Radiance didn't really change the game but he did start walking out of team fights with a kill or two which turned into lothar's and eventually abyssal and we were f***ed. Jugg too stronk. Couldn't do a damn thing about his farming when he had BoT and radiance, he's too fast, too mobile, and too good at farming. I've done the same thing since and I've never failed to be game breaking as Jugg. Still can't win them all, but it's not hard to get a kill or two in a team fight with radiance Jugg, even if your team is made of paper.

I never thought about radi before I saw it, because the first thing you think is "BF will make my ult better!" And that's true, and that's why you don't consider other items instead. But it's easy to realize Radiance does what BF does, only better in every way (the chance you actually get cleaves off in a team fight is pretty small). This is the same problem high MMR players run into when they get a strategy that works. Since it works, they stop analyzing all other possibilities for something that might work better. People don't get medallion/desolator on clinkz because orchid works fine.

[Hermanni]

This is the same problem high MMR players run into when they get a strategy that works. Since it works, they stop analyzing all other possibilities for something that might work better.

I'm going to have to admit I'm somewhat guilty of this, although I often like going for more or less unusual builds (for good and for bad) I often end up liking a single build so much I keep doing it every time without changing much if anything.

[OscaR]

the thing is, there are games where it's not easy to get a radiance. BF is much easier to obtain.

[Kuntantee]

Couple of questions.
First, if Juggy doesn't go for a Battle Fury, what kind of items would you normally get on him? I ended up with a Diffusal (they had Medusa), and Diffusal seemed really good on him... hit, purge, spin, win. Seems like Lothars would make that even better.

Diffu is good but you won't be able to burst medusa's mana without few illusions around or great attack speed if that was your initial plan. I would suit myself for other heroes in the game and try to finish game early because Meduse won't be a problem until some point in game anyway

If you're going for a teamfight Anti-Mage instead of an AFK farming Battle Fury Anti-Mage, what kind of items would you get after Vanguard? Just go straight for a Manta Style, or?

I generally join team fights right after when i get bots + vanguard + yasha but yeah manta is generally my first item.

Also, I might have to revise my opinion on Crystal Maiden. She's still too slow, but if you can get enough HP on her (I had urn, drums, and BKB), her ulti can do a LOT of damage in a teamfight. Still seems kind of inconsistent for use against one or two enemies, though... maybe her scepter upgrade could increase the AOE of each individual snowblob?

Yes, if she catch you offguard, she will hurt. I generally build BKB first and if game does not go beyond min 30 40 or so I forget A.Scepter.

---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 10:29 PM ----------

This is the same problem high MMR players run into when they get a strategy that works. Since it works, they stop analyzing all other possibilities for something that might work better. People don't get medallion/desolator on clinkz because orchid works fine.

Though, Jugg + Radiance is very old. I remember that set up when I was first started DotA in highscool. I also remember crix's radi + sandstorm build tho I've never get chance to build radi to SK in DotA2.

[Morally Grey Storm]

what a game: 3-way pushing via Death Prophet, manta AM, and manta Phantom Lancer :0
boy did we suck team fights, but still we've won

[Lysah]

the thing is, there are games where it's not easy to get a radiance. BF is much easier to obtain.

If you can get BoT by 10 minutes or so (easily the same rate or slower as a good BF build) you'd be surprised how easy it is to farm radiance.

@Manni
Yeah, even as enlightened as I think I am it's amazing how I can still catch myself being stubborn (like in the case of BF jugg) and not realizing the potential of alt. builds.

@Kuntantee
Do you mean back before eth blade/veil were introduced? Back then it was the best you were going to get, SK just has so many options now between veil/scepter/eth blade/shiva's/etc.

[Charge me Doctor]

I think people should start calling Buriza Daedalus. Same for many other items, while some are easily exchanged (Lothar's/Shadow Blade), (Bounty Hunter/Gondar) things like Buriza and Daedalus are not. Lothar's and SB and BH and Gondar are kinda like switching between <what they are> / <what we call them>. Buriza and Daedalus is <what we call them> \ <what we call them>.

Got to choose one or the other, or use the right one when speaking about dota/2 respectively.

Honestly, i didn't even noticed they renamed it. I always called it buriza (same goes for lothar's edge and guinsoo)

[PizzaSHARK]

Sand King's effectiveness before and after Blink Dagger is ridiculous. He's slow, squishy, and easy to deal with before it; after he has it, he'll wipe out entire teams if you aren't properly paranoid. I wish there were other item choices for him, but it feels like all you can do is basically hide and farm blink dagger ASAP unless the enemy team is dumb and chases you into trees or something.

Oh well. It was fun going from 1/5/2 to 6/6/24 while the Lion and Rhasta screaming and raging and whining at me continued to die more and more often while doing less and less