[Megathread] DotA 2

[PizzaSHARK]

You're right (Refraction basically breaks from the same damage that's required to proc Cold Snap), but the post I quoted was about breaking Blink, not Refraction. In this blink oriented meta I'm really surprised OOV isn't bought more often.

Because it's expensive. It consumes an entire inventory slot for very little appreciable difference besides a dot that's mostly ignorable. Breaking Tide's blinker or Panda's blinker when their ult is down is kind of pointless anyhow, they only get blinker so they can push blink and then outskill your team by mashing their R key so hard it gets driven eight feet underground.

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And again, my biggest peeve strikes... supports doing absolutely nothing for your lane. Actually, worse than nothing; they're leeching XP. "AFK supporting" make me sad. /sigh

As far as I'm concerned, pubbing is pointless until they do something about all the fucking South American assholes infesting US servers. We already have enough domestic assholes to not need more imported, thanks.

[Jester Joe]

It's surprisingly easy to get a few seconds free for blink dagger to come back online with just a stun or even a strong slow.

True, Blink disjoints stuns or whatever right? Didn't think of that last night, I should start thinking more at 2AM lol

[Crackleslap]

Urg. In pubs it frustrates the hell out of me to play support. I stack and pull, but when I do this my carry will die.

I try and zone out the enemy, carry auto attacks creeps, and misses cs...

I go roaming to mid to gank, carry dies again... Mid scares enemy off...

buy wards put them in places less likely to get dewarded, get dewarded.

Go to deward, ask for help. None, get killed. Get blamed for feeding.... or for the fact that they have wards..


PUB LIFE!

[veiledy0]

True, Blink disjoints stuns or whatever right? Didn't think of that last night, I should start thinking more at 2AM lol

Blink Dagger disjoints everything QoP's Blink does. Although some spells, like Shackleshot and Alch stun can't be disjointed.

Because it's expensive. It consumes an entire inventory slot for very little appreciable difference besides a dot that's mostly ignorable. Breaking Tide's blinker or Panda's blinker when their ult is down is kind of pointless anyhow, they only get blinker so they can push blink and then outskill your team by mashing their R key so hard it gets driven eight feet underground.

What surprised me about both Tide and Panda is that there hasn't been any Spectre picks against them, and she's the ultimate counter to blink initiators. She's also a great counter to Void, because of her natural tankiness from Dispersion, so she doesn't even need much items to survive Chrono, and the chances of actually catching the real one during Haunt are low. You wouldn't have to play her as your usual Radiance Spectre because you'd need her earlier on, but Spectre also works with Phase/Drums/Yasha/Diffusal, and if you would manage to get through the first 20 minutes w/o losing rax, she'd be able to win you the game with ease.

Urg. In pubs it frustrates the hell out of me to play support. I stack and pull, but when I do this my carry will die.

I try and zone out the enemy, carry auto attacks creeps, and misses cs...

I go roaming to mid to gank, carry dies again... Mid scares enemy off...

Supports think the same about you when you're the carry/mid, I guarantee it. You focus on other people's mistakes way too much, instead of only and literally only caring about yourself. All that "team game" is bullshit. Solo que has the word Solo in it for a reason.

[Deleted]

Very few heroes that go Blink in the current meta use it as an escape. They use it to initiate and OoV means nothing then. Tide, SK, WK, Panda, Enigma, Axe etc. These heroes rarely try to get out of a fight once they've blinked in. Very few heroes use it as a positioning tool to survive. Tinker is the only one that comes to mind.

[Deleted]

Urg. In pubs it frustrates the hell out of me to play support. I stack and pull, but when I do this my carry will die.

I try and zone out the enemy, carry auto attacks creeps, and misses cs...

I go roaming to mid to gank, carry dies again... Mid scares enemy off...

buy wards put them in places less likely to get dewarded, get dewarded.

Go to deward, ask for help. None, get killed. Get blamed for feeding.... or for the fact that they have wards..


PUB LIFE!

Don't try to play low level random pubs like supports in the competitive scene.

[Longview]

Surely you're aware that Utility alch was used without mek in competitive scrims/pub play before that game? My point is that it's not much of a prediction if you're just band-wagoning with every subreddit on earth who has been talking about the surge of utility alch play during the time that it's happening

yea i am aware

im just adding links because someone asked to see some and it was about a mek

[veiledy0]

Very few heroes that go Blink in the current meta use it as an escape. They use it to initiate and OoV means nothing then. Tide, SK, WK, Panda, Enigma, Axe etc. These heroes rarely try to get out of a fight once they've blinked in. Very few heroes use it as a positioning tool to survive. Tinker is the only one that comes to mind.

All those heroes you listed use also it as an escape after juking into the fog or simply thanks to having higher movement speed at least 2-3 times per game.

[Deleted]

All those heroes you listed use also it as an escape after juking into the fog or simply thanks to having higher movement speed at least 2-3 times per game.

Hence, "rarely".

[Keyzz]

Surely you're aware that Utility alch was used without mek in competitive scrims/pub play before that game? My point is that it's not much of a prediction if you're just band-wagoning with every subreddit on earth who has been talking about the surge of utility alch play during the time that it's happening


http://d2htl.wordpress.com/2013/02/1...february-2013/



here's an example of the band-wagoning I was talking about. A month before Keyzz's post. I don't see how something can be a prediction if it is currently in the process of happening.

I don't see how what you have quoted has anything to do with a support alch. It was saying alch is moving up popularity but didn't seem to mention support alch at all. It's kind of funny how I mentioned something in passing (the one time I accurately predicted something out of probably 20 things) and you seem to be trying REALLY hard to nitpick it. Whatever, good luck to you buddy.

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Hence, "rarely".

I'd say avoiding 2-3 deaths per game thanks to a blink dagger is a pretty big deal. Blink's usefulness as an escape tool is pretty impressive, and even aggressively besides just ulting. I mean even for a hero like Brew, blinking and clapping is great initiation without an ult available.

[LiiLoSNK]

I don't see how what you have quoted has anything to do with a support alch. It was saying alch is moving up popularity but didn't seem to mention support alch at all. It's kind of funny how I mentioned something in passing (the one time I accurately predicted something out of probably 20 things) and you seem to be trying REALLY hard to nitpick it. Whatever, good luck to you buddy.

February was when alch was noticed, and during the entire month of march, pros were running alch as position 1, position 2, and utility to try and figure out where he stood. Your comment was made AFTER/DURING this was happening. I'm not trying hard to nitpick, but rather just pointing out that your prediction isn't a prediction at all. You're the one getting so mad about it that you are now going the extra mile to prove that you were just ignorant instead of just basing your comments off other popular statements of the time.

I predict that I'll be having chinese food for dinner tonight, since I'm already in the car driving to the restaurant. Someone high five me.

[Keyzz]

February was when alch was noticed, and during the entire month of march, pros were running alch as position 1, position 2, and utility to try and figure out where he stood. Your comment was made AFTER/DURING this was happening. I'm not trying hard to nitpick, but rather just pointing out that your prediction isn't a prediction at all. You're the one getting so mad about it that you are now going the extra mile to prove that you were just ignorant instead of just basing your comments off other popular statements of the time.

I predict that I'll be having chinese food for dinner tonight, since I'm already in the car driving to the restaurant. Someone high five me.

Hahahaha wow... someone piss in your cheerios?

I am not very good at looking up competitive dota statistics.. But this is my attempt:

http://www.datdota.com/skill_build.p...kill_item=true

This is pro alch picks in Feb and March of 2013. You'll notice that out of 24 games alch was in, only 4 times was greevils greed not taken at either level 1 or level 2. So there are 4 games in 2 months where a support alch was used. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. It's also amusing that you linked a post that had alch in FOURTH tier and claim that alch was "obviously" on the rise as a support hero.

[LiiLoSNK]

Hahahaha wow... someone piss in your cheerios?

I've never seen someone get this defensive and angry after being told they are wrong. Try to at least keep your posts somewhat related to dota?

[Deleted]

I'd say avoiding 2-3 deaths per game thanks to a blink dagger is a pretty big deal. Blink's usefulness as an escape tool is pretty impressive, and even aggressively besides just ulting. I mean even for a hero like Brew, blinking and clapping is great initiation without an ult available.

No? Because you've already used all your spells and on those heroes you dying doesn't matter that much. It was also a bad fight to begin with if you need to run after you used your spells. And I don't even agree with that you get away 2-3 times in a game during a fight thanks to Blink Dagger.

[Keyzz]

I've never seen someone get this defensive and angry after being told they are wrong. Try to at least keep your posts somewhat related to dota?

Wow, this thread is just like being in a dota game. Someone ignores when you provide evidence and give valid points about something and just responds with "LOL SO MAD LOLOLOL". Thanks Lillo for really making this thread feel like home. I assume you'll just ignore any evidence I give you about how you are wrong, so thats cool. Also, if you look here http://www.datdota.com/hero_populari...&hero4=&hero5= you'll notice that in March 2013 when I made my post, Alch had a 7% pick/ban rate. In a few months he shot up to 76 and then in Jan 14 he was almost 100% pick/ban. Should I find more proof for you?

And @ Ariadne, well then I just agree to disagree. For one, I definitely think you survive a few times you wouldnt otherwise. If you've ever watched a pro game, you'll see it happen all the time. Tossing a 2-3 second stun, juking into trees, then blinking out and tping. And on a lot of heroes, they have spells which you can use multiple times. A lot of heroes who get blink dagger don't only get it for their ults. Sand king, wraith king, brew (though the ult is a big part), Zeus for positioning, Skywrath for positioning, Alch, Axe, Centaur, Lion, CM, Rubick, Meepo, Earthshaker (again ult is huge, but blink totem and blink fissure are used a lot), etc. Just because you've blinked in and used some spells, doesn't mean you're done in a teamfight. Thats true for maybe enigma? Even tide I'd say his usefulness is still there as anchor smash is an amazing spell. There are plenty of times on a Sand king for example that you blink in with ult and burrow, then if the fight is won, you are now chasing the enemies running away. Another blink+burrow secures the kills. Blink dagger is a pretty huge item.

[LiiLoSNK]

Wow, this thread is just like being in a dota game. Someone ignores when you provide evidence and give valid points about something and just responds with "LOL SO MAD LOLOLOL". Thanks Lillo for really making this thread feel like home. I assume you'll just ignore any evidence I give you about how you are wrong, so thats cool. Also, if you look here http://www.datdota.com/hero_populari...&hero4=&hero5= you'll notice that in March 2013 when I made my post, Alch had a 7% pick/ban rate.

You weren't posting evidence, you were just crying about pee cereal. I'm not sure if you know how to read the graph that you posted, but it pretty much proves you wrong all by itself. Your alch post was not made at 7%. That was in february (as I mentioned earlier). You can see alch continue to grow up to about 18 percent at the end of march when you made your statement.

In a few months he shot up to 76 and then in Jan 14 he was almost 100% pick/ban. Should I find more proof for you?

Now you're implying that I'm denying that alch was ever a top meta pick. I never said or implied that. Everyone knows that he was almost 100% p/b at one point. I'm saying that you made your "prediction" as he was spiking into popularity, not before. You may have been completely ignorant to the fact that utility alch was a thing before you made your post, but that doesn't mean you "called it".

This truly is like a match of dota and you're the child that is spazzing out of control and threatening to feed because someone else on the team questioned your item choices. But yea, this is getting sad so I'm just going to drop it.

[Bloodfire]

Bumping this, having retarded premades in my team when playing with friend makes me sick.

P.S.: Last drop of toxic ooze was a hardcarry who went linken and travel boots as 1st and 2nd items.

I'm looking for 3 people to play as a premade, MMR approx. around 3350-3500, Western Europe.
Requirements:
1) You don't rage every time you lose in a real game, where you go up and down.
2) If your chair is burning after any game, GO TO 1. (Atm my is burning from alot of people who slur on their own language while playing in English queue).
3) Age 20+, i.e. to analyze how game was lost, other issues.
4) Ability to play at least 1 position at maximum skill of your own.
5) Voiceover is not necessary, that can be talked after in details.

[Deleted]

And @ Ariadne, well then I just agree to disagree. For one, I definitely think you survive a few times you wouldnt otherwise. If you've ever watched a pro game, you'll see it happen all the time. Tossing a 2-3 second stun, juking into trees, then blinking out and tping. And on a lot of heroes, they have spells which you can use multiple times. A lot of heroes who get blink dagger don't only get it for their ults. Sand king, wraith king, brew (though the ult is a big part), Zeus for positioning, Skywrath for positioning, Alch, Axe, Centaur, Lion, CM, Rubick, Meepo, Earthshaker (again ult is huge, but blink totem and blink fissure are used a lot), etc. Just because you've blinked in and used some spells, doesn't mean you're done in a teamfight. Thats true for maybe enigma? Even tide I'd say his usefulness is still there as anchor smash is an amazing spell. There are plenty of times on a Sand king for example that you blink in with ult and burrow, then if the fight is won, you are now chasing the enemies running away. Another blink+burrow secures the kills. Blink dagger is a pretty huge item.

Yes... you blink in on those heroes, run out and then blink in again. Meepo? He use it to engage. Centaur? Engage. Axe? Engage. After that they maybe run out but they are certainly not blinking out.

Anyway, I'm trying a new build on Tinker which I think might actually be good. You go Bloodstone->Agha. The Bloodstone to increase your farm rate, make you more tanky and allow you to spam March/Rockets more. Combine this with Agha and you can stand back and send like 8 waves of Missiles. March also does insane damage if you place them properly in fights (which very few Tinkers do) and Agha and Bloodstone allow you to do that because you're tanky. With a fragile build you are afraid to place Marches because you can get caught out. After that you get a Hex and you have perma hex. Most builds can't sustain perma hex

[Keyzz]

You weren't posting evidence, you were just crying about pee cereal. I'm not sure if you know how to read the graph that you posted, but it pretty much proves you wrong all by itself. Your alch post was not made at 7%. That was in february (as I mentioned earlier). You can see alch continue to grow up to about 18 percent at the end of march when you made your statement.


Now you're implying that I'm denying that alch was ever a top meta pick. I never said or implied that. Everyone knows that he was almost 100% p/b at one point. I'm saying that you made your "prediction" as he was spiking into popularity, not before. You may have been completely ignorant to the fact that utility alch was a thing before you made your post, but that doesn't mean you "called it".

This truly is like a match of dota and you're the child that is spazzing out of control and threatening to feed because someone else on the team questioned your item choices. But yea, this is getting sad so I'm just going to drop it.

You still havent responded to my link in my previous post (http://www.datdota.com/skill_build.p...kill_item=true) that showed the item builds of those Alchs in competitive dota during the time period in question. Previous to my post, 4 out of 24 alch picks (Feb+mar) in competitive dota were support/utility alch. So in the 2 months leading up to my post, he was picked in a support role 4 times. It's cool though when you ignore what I post. Or when you turn it into evidence for your side. Him being picked/banned in 18% of games is apparently a new dominant trend.

As of right now, Bristleback is picked/banned in 18% of games. Is he the next new dominant pick that will soon be picked/banned in 100% of games? I mean, it's that simple according to you right?

Also, based on posts like these:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0#post28834200
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...8#post28785758

I'm going to guess you're just a troll so I'lll move on. Find someone else to try and argue with who doesn't know how to use statistics.

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Yes... you blink in on those heroes, run out and then blink in again. Meepo? He use it to engage. Centaur? Engage. Axe? Engage. After that they maybe run out but they are certainly not blinking out.

They certainly are blinking out. When you blink in with centaur on someone out of position, get a kill, and now the enemy's team is responding or TPing in, you usually run away. If they keep chasing you, having a blink dagger coming off cd soon is a helpful tool to escape with. Axe is the same, after they blink in, the fight isn't over. Sometimes you want to blink again aggressively and get another kill. Sometimes its time to run. Sometimes you run, see one of their supports dragging behind and you can blink behind their lines and get another support kill. Blink dagger is pretty versatile on most heroes. Having the mentality that its just to either blink/ult/die, or blink/soak damage/die isn't the entirety of a blink daggers usefullness.

Imo, changing the mana cost on blink dagger to 0 was one of the biggest meta changes of late.

[LiiLoSNK]

I'm going to guess you're just a troll so I'lll move on. Find someone else to try and argue with who doesn't know how to use statistics.

Lol you didn't predict alch was going to be 100% pb. You claimed he could fill a utility role, but you made your claim after that fact was already proven. Simple as that. All the statistics you posted only help prove you wrong because they show him working as a viable support before your prediction. Good job, genius.

Also on the blink dagger discussion, i'm pretty sure that there is some misunderstanding going on. Obviously you can use blink to escape if the situation presents itself, but those heroes aren't spending the 2150 gold solely for the purpose of using it as a positioning/defensive item, like you would on tinker or furion.