[Megathread] DotA 2

[Charge me Doctor]

His stun stick used to not remove all other traps around it, making 8 seconds 5 man stun possible, huehuehue. Now it's just a shadow of its old utility. And still, it depends on how you are going to play. To defend against 5 man pushes - sure, it's great thing to level right after suicide, but if enemy supports roams a lot, you want to
get more levels in mines (because they wreck supports, one-two mines will be enough for any pre 6 level character to piss its pants and forget about ganking anyone). Also remember - mines damage structures, both allied and enemy. If i start seeing Techies who mine his own turrets to "defend it from creeps" i'll start сука блять днище ебаное again. To those who don't get it, yes, mines procced of enemy creeps near your tower will damage your tower and vice versa, placing a mine near enemy tower always deals damage to it because if mine is killed it still blows up. Land mine and Suicide is mixed damage skills, don't overestimate its damage in late game. Considering mixed damage thingy, the longer you are in the game, the less effective your "damage" skills is going to be. Finishing 60 minute games without Aghs, from my experience, is impossible, because without it, you, effectively, have only stun stick in your arsenal (land mines take too long time to stack them up, same goes for remote mines, and with long games there is more chances that enemy will get Gem making your mines almost useless against players (tho, still good against creeps and to destroy enemy structures)), so in teamfight you can use it as stun stick from Orcs in WC3, when enemy engages at your army (team, important location), drop it and they either have to change location in next 4 seconds, our eat a 4 seconds stun

This hero is all about map awareness and mind games, if you want to improve it, you should try him out

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1v1ing people with Sheepstick and mines lategame is hilarious on techies.

Good luck 1v1 3k health Pudge with Pipe and 10 armour. It will take like, 20 mines? Basically, as soon as enemy team gets Pipe, their high-armour target can just ignore your mines (they can effectively reduce damage from them to 50%), mixed damage sucks

[Drunkenvalley]

Can Techies farm ancients decently well then? Similar to Beastmaster, just chuck bombs at 'em?

[LiiLoSNK]

Can Techies farm ancients decently well then? Similar to Beastmaster, just chuck bombs at 'em?

Yes. Yes they can.

[Lysah]

And then someone picks PL and dopple walks an illusion over your mines and you are ruined

[Charge me Doctor]

It's just retarded idea to stick Techies to farm ancients, i mean, there is better heroes who needs gold+exp from them, Techies should roam the fucking map and force enemies into passive play. And like, there is only 1 way to ward radiant ancient camp, from the freaking ramp, rrriiiight.
You can get just 10 clarity potions and drop rank 1 mines all over the map and be fine (unless the bug of landing a kill on huge distance not rewarding you exp is still exist)

[LiiLoSNK]

it's retarded to stick anyone to farm only ancients. sub 5k mmr, all this retarded shit is viable.

[Drunkenvalley]

I was just curious if you can farm ancients effectively at all. Even if you're roaming, you're sometimes just going to have to stop and do a little bit of farming.

[Charge me Doctor]

sorry, but using 20 seconds CD mines (at least two of them) to farm ancients seriously hurts your map control. From what i remember playing Techies, you always have you mine on CD or not have mana to place them, there is no way you could afford spending them on ancients. Well, actually there is a way, if enemy doesn't roam and not a single lane can push to enemy tower

[Lysah]

I wouldn't rely on random land mine kills much, even if you put them in unexpected places that people just happen to walk over, they don't do a lot of damage as you already explained. Not to mention their damage gets reduced if you don't walk DIRECTLY on top of them, which means that even 600 health supports that graze the edge of the AoE can usually survive 3 or 4 mines and you simply can't place them everywhere. The time you spend away from lane getting no exp or gold is very real and will kill you in the long run.

Throwing mines in predictable places and returning to lane is probably your best bet if you're serious about playing techies as a hero and not just trolling people with boom boom for cheap laughs. Yes, everyone expects mines on runes. Force them to sentry the rune spot 24/7 just so they can walk across the river without dying. You are costing them gold and you are keeping their support out of lane and in a war with you over map control. Meanwhile, you can be stacking and blowing up regular jungle camps, which not only gives you the gold to counter ward, but will keep you ahead in levels while the enemy support remains useless. Put mines in obvious jungle gank routes, make the enemy afraid to roam the map, force them to buy a gem early and start playing defensively in fear of losing it. You create space not by going 15-0, but by forcing the enemy to spam true sight.

Meanwhile, you get scepter and start dropping screen wide finger of deaths on a 10 second cooldown.

[Charge me Doctor]

You use mines to block paths for warding, ganks, runes, forest creep, side of a lane, side shop, under enemy tower, etc, you don't put them on top of a ramp to get a random kill, you need to predict what your enemy is planning to do and where he is going to go to fulfill his plans. The most common usage of mines is blocking side shop and hurting enemy supports for pulling.

Yeah, as Lysah says, it doesn't matter if you mine obvious spot, it's about denying enemy from going here, punishing them from going here or forcing them to buy stealth detection.

Techies is total pain in the ass when he rotates to mine enemy woods, imagine losing 300 health, half of your creeps and half of neutral creeps while pulling? That totally sucks.

[LiiLoSNK]

GJ misunderstanding both the question and the answer. But yea, you're wrong if you think techies can't farm ancients. You're also wrong if you think mining the high ground at either ancient spawn is a waste. Your techies experience doesn't extend past bottom level ELO pub scrims, so don't act like you know the hero or anything about where to mine. Saying that the most common usage of mines is blocking sideshop proves you only understand first timers pub techies. Also, saying not to place any mines on top of ramps is probably the worst thing I've read of 2014.

[Charge me Doctor]

I've never said that Techies can't farm ancients, i said that it's a waste of time, gold and exp.
Because when Dire support wants to ward your ancients he totally going to get on a ramp, there is like, literally, no way to put a ward from low ground. And nice job getting "you don't put them on top of a ramp" out of "you don't put them on top of a ramp to get a random kill"
Yeah, like playing Techies for more than hundred games doesn't mean that i don't know the hero well.
And if you don't block sideshop for enemy is going seriously hurt most of enemies because crow is usually in hands of mid player at the time when side shop is used.

But anyways, i should say that i was talking about first 7 minutes of the game somewhere in my post

[LiiLoSNK]

Ok well now you're wrong again because it's not a waste of time gold or exp if you can do it successfully. If they let you farm ancients, which is common in unranked pubs, you're getting farmed way faster than any other method of minor map control.

You're acting like you're not playing pubs where people can get away with ancients farming. 2 mines at the ramp before the game even starts provide a potentially safe farming environment until you get your fast soul ring/levels, then after that, you're significantly more useful to your team. You can run around at level 1 with 10 clarities being useless if you want, but that's not how the hero works.

If you've played techies over 100 times, I'd expect you to know more about what he can and can't do.

[Charge me Doctor]

Gold and exp advantage on Techies is going to be wasted, he gets nothing out of it compared to any other hero. His early game advantage in abbility to completely block enemy off important spots and routes and force them to spend gold on detection. And he is huge threat on a lane thanks to suicide.
2 mines on enemy small camp before the game even started means that you offlaner is going to have not only free exp, but free farm under tower, actually, two mines before the game starts almost anywhere except your ancient camp is going to be more useful

If you are so eager about getting early soul ring you can get it around 3 minute with only base gold without need to farm ancients, you need to put pressure on enemy when you play Techies, and taking ancients is exactly opposite of doing that. Techies with items is not going to make any difference in early game, he needs exactly two items for the whole game, it's blood stone and aghs, other items are just luxury and it's better to pass the gold to someone who can get more out of it

[Drunkenvalley]

At no point until now did you talk about the seven first minutes from what I can see. My question was only if you can farm ancients, which is a general question. When I ask the question I mean in the similar sense to Tidehunter, Tinker, Beastmaster, Alchemist and others whose abilities make them very capable of farming ancients when they're farming for an item. Ie if you need the last few 100g to complete your Agh's.

[Charge me Doctor]

At no point until now did you talk about the seven first minutes from what I can see. My question was only if you can farm ancients, which is a general question. When I ask the question I mean in the similar sense to Tidehunter, Tinker, Beastmaster, Alchemist and others whose abilities make them very capable of farming ancients when they're farming for an item. Ie if you need the last few 100g to complete your Agh's.

Yeah, sorry about that, i should mention that i was speaking about early game, for some reason i thought that i mentioned early game somewhere. I wasn't saying that Techies can't do that, i was arguing that it's a waste of gold to give it to techies. But IMO, if you miss out 100 gold, you could take any other creep camp, it will be easier and faster, it's so much better to leave ancient stacks to your carry instead of taking them as Techies

[LiiLoSNK]

omg what are you talking about? He gets nothing out of gold and LEVELS? Can you imagine being level 6 by like 8 minutes? Do you know how beneficial that is? Any team against a techies is going to be guarding their jungle first and foremost because of his ability to block spawns. I posted a couple paragraphs of techies tips in the actual techies thread describing this (Not sure if you can still cut down trees, place mines, and have trees grow back over the mines for perma spawn blocking).

If nobody triggers your mines you get a temporarily diverted courier for the first few minutes. However, If nobody triggers my ancients mines, that means you got almost 3000 gold by 8 minutes and 7 levels. Now you begin pressure mining your way to full map control AND actually contributing to teamfights early with your ult. Meanwhile, playing your techies means you're running around risking the entire game hoping that level 1 mines will payoff in stunting enemy farm/xp

There's nothing more useless than a techies that wastes all his time trying to do this. His 270 move speed makes his early game map control absolutely horrible.

[Charge me Doctor]

Yeah, you are right, time of mid Techies mining the shit out of enemy is over i guess, farming regular creeps doesn't look so appealing when you can farm ancients. Wanted to pull out the "dragons is a flying unit" trump card but remember that they are not in dota 2. Still, i really doubt that it's going to work even at my 3k MMR, because every time i see someone on either our or enemy team stacking ancients, they are getting warded and ganked. Unless the game is a throw when everyone blames everyone for everything and spends most of the time typing shit to each other.

Still, when you have good synergy with certain heroes, you always can play through suicide as (un)regular support who will zone out enemy from a lane and deny all attempts of mid player to get runes/ganks off.

[LiiLoSNK]

The thing that makes techies ancients semi viable is that level 2 suicide. If the mid on your team is somewhat compliant, you can get an ez suicide kill on anyone trying to sneak over to ward.

My motto is, try to getaway with anything you can, and in pubs, you can usually at least try to farm ancients.

[EqualWin]

holy shit wr is so damn strong. once u get used to get shackles, in late game with blink or sb with aghs crit maelstrom u can solo any1