[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Hunter Information

[Renley]

Based on my rough simulations, once you take into account the ICD, the default LnL proc rate ends up averaging out to about 12% chance per tick over the course of the fight. With the set bonus, it goes up to about 17.12%. In my T14H simulation for SV the bonus amounts to about 1306.95 dps.




I'm unclear on your complaint. You do know that the weapon damage portion of these shots includes AP scaling by default? The weapon damage formula is avg weapon dmg + RAP / 14 * 2.8. Many of those shots also have a weapon damage multiplier which affects the amount of benefit you get from the weapon base damage and from the RAP. Historically they have had 2 separate pieces of RAP scaling in the shot formulas (one tied to the weapon damage including the RAP and one separate), but they have simplified them. They haven't changed the shots to no longer scale with RAP.

Do you happen to know the DPS gains of the 2p and 4p for the other 2 specs? :O

[Deleted]

The nerfs are a bit farfetched imo. The only thing that needed nerfing was our pets, since a pet was overscaled and even with 20% nerf they'll still do too much damage.

Best solution would have been a 10% nerf to our abilities and a 40% nerf to pet dmg (excluding kill command).

---------- Post added 2012-08-08 at 08:21 PM ----------

Just so people do not run off yelling doomsday is upon us - the nerfs we are seeing are blanket nerfs to bring down the overall amount of damage that EVERY class can achieve. Everything, barring possibly the specs at the very bottom, will be nerfed to that level, as the damage output is apparantly higher than what Blizzard are aiming for. Just because some class is middle of the pack, does not mean that they won't be nerfed, if middle of the pack is 10% higher than they want "top of the pack" to be.

No it's meant to make ppl cry less in pvp, that's what the nerfs are for, and the fact that the poolsample of all other classes is quite crappy because nobody but hunters seem to play their class as they should on beta. I've played with some of the best world boomkins on lfr and they were equal to us, yet their nerfs are insignificant.

[Renley]

The nerfs are a bit farfetched imo. The only thing that needed nerfing was our pets, since a pet was overscaled and even with 20% nerf they'll still do too much damage.

Best solution would have been a 10% nerf to our abilities and a 40% nerf to pet dmg (excluding kill command).

---------- Post added 2012-08-08 at 08:21 PM ----------



No it's meant to make ppl cry less in pvp, that's what the nerfs are for, and the fact that the poolsample of all other classes is quite crappy because nobody but hunters seem to play their class as they should on beta. I've played with some of the best world boomkins on lfr and they were equal to us, yet their nerfs are insignificant.

Pet damage is moreorless where they want it for BM, roughly 45% of our damage. And the blanket nerfs aren't just for PvP. Hunters were way ahead of most of the other classes and we're all being brought down to a level that will eventually be the baseline for DPS in MoP.

See:
"We have made several adjustments based on player feedback, raid testing, and fixing some bugs. Some of the changes were made to keep secondary stats scaling appropriately and some were when specs were doing too much damage. Here's a quick cheat sheet for where we are. Even "tuned" does not mean set in stone and ready for ship.

Priest -- Shadow roughly tuned.
Warlock -- roughly tuned except for Sacrifice.
Mage -- roughly tuned except Arcane and Invocation.
Druid -- Feral and Balance tuned except for Dream of Cenarius.
Paladin -- Ret roughly tuned.
Rogue -- tuned (but we'll look at Assassination numbers posted above).
Shaman -- tuned.
Hunter -- tuned."

[Deleted]

Pet damage is moreorless where they want it for BM, roughly 45% of our damage. And the blanket nerfs aren't just for PvP. Hunters were way ahead of most of the other classes and we're all being brought down to a level that will eventually be the baseline for DPS in MoP.

See:
"We have made several adjustments based on player feedback, raid testing, and fixing some bugs. Some of the changes were made to keep secondary stats scaling appropriately and some were when specs were doing too much damage. Here's a quick cheat sheet for where we are. Even "tuned" does not mean set in stone and ready for ship.

Priest -- Shadow roughly tuned.
Warlock -- roughly tuned except for Sacrifice.
Mage -- roughly tuned except Arcane and Invocation.
Druid -- Feral and Balance tuned except for Dream of Cenarius.
Paladin -- Ret roughly tuned.
Rogue -- tuned (but we'll look at Assassination numbers posted above).
Shaman -- tuned.
Hunter -- tuned."

Pets doing 105k bites/claws outside bm spec is fairly overtuned, a 20% nerf ain't gonna solve that.

[Renley]

Pets doing 105k bites/claws outside bm spec is fairly overtuned, a 20% nerf ain't gonna solve that.

20% nerf brings that down to 80k, and considering pets for those other 2 specs only do about 10-12% of our damage(last I checked at least), that makes that even lower. I don't see a big issue with it tbh.

[Zeherah]

Do you happen to know the DPS gains of the 2p and 4p for the other 2 specs? :O

BM- 2pc: 3950.42, 4pc: 1954.16
MM- 2pc: 1309.88, 4pc: 2148.32
SV- 2pc: 1094.57, 4pc: 1306.95

These are in T14H gear and of course are subject to change after I verify the latest mechanics adjustments.

[Hayro1]

The nerfs are a bit farfetched imo. The only thing that needed nerfing was our pets, since a pet was overscaled and even with 20% nerf they'll still do too much damage.

No. We were more than fine pre-buff, myself, Kennyloggins, and I believe even Zehe (maybe) were sad to see the buffs because we knew a big nerfbat was swinging our way. Survival isn't that far behind BM, I don't think they're that much and just putting us back to where we were or a little under that, but we'll see when the next build goes live.

[Renley]

BM- 2pc: 3950.42, 4pc: 1954.16
MM- 2pc: 1309.88, 4pc: 2148.32
SV- 2pc: 1094.57, 4pc: 1306.95

These are in T14H gear and of course are subject to change after I verify the latest mechanics adjustments.

Wow, I knew the BM 2p and 4p were good, didn't expect that though.

[Deleted]

20% nerf brings that down to 80k, and considering pets for those other 2 specs only do about 10-12% of our damage(last I checked at least), that makes that even lower. I don't see a big issue with it tbh.

10-12%? I don't know how much you've tested but my pets did up to 30% in mm and sv.

I'll check it later on beta, but I'm worried about these nerfs.

[Hayro1]

Then you were doing something completely wrong if they were anywhere near 30% as SV/MM.

[Dracodraco]

The nerfs are a bit farfetched imo. The only thing that needed nerfing was our pets, since a pet was overscaled and even with 20% nerf they'll still do too much damage.

Best solution would have been a 10% nerf to our abilities and a 40% nerf to pet dmg (excluding kill command).

---------- Post added 2012-08-08 at 08:21 PM ----------



No it's meant to make ppl cry less in pvp, that's what the nerfs are for, and the fact that the poolsample of all other classes is quite crappy because nobody but hunters seem to play their class as they should on beta. I've played with some of the best world boomkins on lfr and they were equal to us, yet their nerfs are insignificant.

PvP might have something to do with it, but as the blue post quoted stated, then it was mainly a damage balancing patch - one to bring everyone down to a proper DPS-level instead of having the outliers. And while Boomkins did do alot of dps, they were not nearly as close to us as you claim - if you were playing with "some of the best world boomkins", and they were keeping up with you/the other hunters there, then chances are that they are probably better players than you. Because hunters *were* ahead. Also, a blanket 13% nerf to all boomkins dps abilities and a 25% nerf to their base-mastery bonus aren't "insignificant" :P.

[Reith]

The nerfs are a bit farfetched imo. The only thing that needed nerfing was our pets, since a pet was overscaled and even with 20% nerf they'll still do too much damage.

Best solution would have been a 10% nerf to our abilities and a 40% nerf to pet dmg (excluding kill command).

---------- Post added 2012-08-08 at 08:21 PM ----------



No it's meant to make ppl cry less in pvp, that's what the nerfs are for, and the fact that the poolsample of all other classes is quite crappy because nobody but hunters seem to play their class as they should on beta. I've played with some of the best world boomkins on lfr and they were equal to us, yet their nerfs are insignificant.

I've seen the parses and here's what it looked like when they knew how to play:
Hunter:
------------------------------------------------------
Every other class:
-------------------------------------------

Just saying. These nerfs actually might not be enough.

[Rackfu]

I hopped on the beta last week and ran a couple of bosses on LFR.

Without ever having played around with the new Surv rotation and actually forgetting to put the level 90 tier talent on my actionbar (think I have glaive toss selected), I finished in the top 3 every time.... The other two who were in competition with me.... Hunters.

Hate to say it, but the nerf was needed.... Just hope it wasn't an over reaction.

[Dch48]

The nerfs are way overboard and the damage output is now ridiculous. Explosive shot is now doing roughly the same damage as autoshot, Blink Strike is doing a lot more damage than Kill Command and overall dps on the raider dummy is down 24% in both BM and SV. A complete mess.

[Deleted]

Then you were doing something completely wrong if they were anywhere near 30% as SV/MM.

Think it's more that you folks did something wrong, I've tested every raid boss (killed the majority of them) and my pet was never below 25% in dmg.

The nerfs on beta are idd overnerfed, they need to buff us by 15% or more coz we are well behind boomkins now, which shouldn't be the case.

[Reith]

The nerfs are way overboard and the damage output is now ridiculous. Explosive shot is now doing roughly the same damage as autoshot, Blink Strike is doing a lot more damage than Kill Command and overall dps on the raider dummy is down 24% in both BM and SV. A complete mess.

Yup, they're doing so bad right now, man.

I can't take you seriously if you say stuff like that.. come on now.

[Dracodraco]

Think it's more that you folks did something wrong, I've tested every raid boss (killed the majority of them) and my pet was never below 25% in dmg.

The nerfs on beta are idd overnerfed, they need to buff us by 15% or more coz we are well behind boomkins now, which shouldn't be the case.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/vsblk...um/damageDone/ Undefeatable, 16.5% dmg overall from his pet in that log, no BM. He did have a much better uptime than you other two hunters, though.
Your pet, 27% (with you being beast mastery for an amount of time, considering 16% of the pet's damage was Kill Command).
Devrioll, full time surv, 8% damage from his pet.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/4m3lv...um/damageDone/ Varahirl, full time MM, 20% dmg from his pet.



http://worldoflogs.com/reports/puqkf...um/damageDone/ Overall damage from your pet in that log, 18% (picture skewed as you used both Survival and Beast mastery, considering the majority of your dmg is from Improved Serpent sting, but your pet also has dmg from beast cleave/Kill command, meaning you changed to get more AOE damage. Pretty safe to assume that surv-only wouldn't go above 15%.
Likewise, Undefeatable in that log, who never went BM, has 13.5% dmg from his pet.

I'm pretty sure the only way you would ever get 25-30% damage from your pet, is if you're looking at the logs where you spend time as BM, which boosts the pet's damage obscurely for the rest of the log. One 2-3 minute attempt where you fire off 20 kill commands will have your pet do like, a *shitton* of damage, that'll skew the log for the rest of the night.


As for boomkins needing another nerf, or us needing another nudge up, there's plenty of time for that - but don't expect it. There's nothing that says we should be ahead of boomkins, and we especially shouldn't on multi-target fights as we still are a singletarget class, and they are a DoT class. But don't expect us to be buffed above what we are capable of doing DPS-wise now - what they are tuning us around doing right now, is what they intend for us to do. If boomkins are still "far" ahead of us, then they will be nerfed. If we're middle of the pack, then you'll just have to show off some of your skill to beat whoever you're playing with instead of relying on simming highest, because someone *has* to be middle of the pack, and they went away from the "hybrid tax" AAAAAGES ago, so there's no reason we can't be smack in the middle of the pack.

Yup, they're doing so bad right now, man.

I can't take you seriously if you say stuff like that.. come on now.

That parse is from 31-07, AKA 9-10 days ago. Before the nerf blanket . It means nothing.

[Reith]

That parse is from 31-07, AKA 9-10 days ago. Before the nerf blanket . It means nothing.

AKA the build before the nerf patch AKA relevant because it shows that the nerfs are nothing more than balancing and crying that the sky is falling is ludicrous.

[Deleted]

Simcraft was updated with the new hunter changes. Just look at this shit. Now i am forced to play BM.
And Ghostcrawler said hunters are tuned now lol.
Still can't post links.

[Dracodraco]

AKA the build before the nerf patch AKA relevant because it shows that the nerfs are nothing more than balancing and crying that the sky is falling is ludicrous.

"
Well, actually, what he said was that: "The nerfs are way overboard and the damage output is now ridiculous. Explosive shot is now doing roughly the same damage as autoshot, Blink Strike is doing a lot more damage than Kill Command and overall dps on the raider dummy is down 24% in both BM and SV. A complete mess."

he never said that the nerfs were not justified, he said the way they did it was a complete mess, as signature abilities all of a sudden does such insignificant damage. I don't know if he's right about that as I haven't bothered to log on and check myself yet, but I ceartainly didn't see him complain that hunters were brought down from 40% ahead of the pack - I saw him complain that once again, our abilities were screwed up damage wise, like two builds ago, when Arcane Shot was barely even worth casting.