Blue about Tanking Shaman

[Midgetface]

No, it won't happen. As much as I would like a fourth spec, it just won't happen because Blizz are being extremely thrifty in what regards Shaman design, in my opinion.

But, for anyone interested, I created a sample Mists of Pandaria-style progression of how it could be, because I do believe it is quite possible.

Check it out here. Then come back and tell me how much you'd love Ancient Glaive.

[Revelations]

Glaives <3

[Kivimetsan]

It would actually improve the game, considering how big the ratio is between dps and tanks.

[mercutiouk]

I come from the SHAMAN TANKING IS DEAD, LIVE WITH IT!! school of reasoning BUT the stuff linked here IS actually very, very awesome. With an enhance in my stable and no real direction with it's offspec a tanky spec for it WOULD actually get me mildly excited. Would certainly make queuing a crapload quicker, I tank on all specs that can cept warrior so no real stress learning 1 more.

[Waaldo]

The only problem with this MoP talent tree is that there are no talent trees in MoP!
I think tanking as a shaman would be amazing! Blizz definitely wouldn't do it though. They said that they made monks wear leather because they didn't want to have to make a whole new set of gear, so unless they let shamans wear plate instead of mail, it would be to much work according to blizz's standards.

[Endus]

It would actually improve the game, considering how big the ratio is between dps and tanks.

People thought that, then they added DKs, with three (at the time) tank specs, and the number of tanks in practice increased by precisely none. Whether people tank or not has everything to do with their mindset, not the character they happen to main at this moment.

[Alltat]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for Pandaria, but shaman tanking is a good candidate for a new tree in the next expansion, if they feel like adding more tanking. Of course, with monks closing in on the "agility tank" territory, it may be less likely. But never say never.

The only problem with this MoP talent tree is that there are no talent trees in MoP!

It's not a talent tree. It's a skill progression. Which MoP has.

[Kaj392]

Even IF they would make shaman tanking, the idea linked is kinda... OP. Self heals + nice hard offensive cd's + a totem that could safe your (arena's) partner life every 3 minutes.

Nice idea tho.
But yeah, adding a 4th spec for every class should mean that druid's get a 5th spec

[Midgetface]

Even IF they would make shaman tanking, the idea linked is kinda... OP. Self heals + nice hard offensive cd's + a totem that could safe your (arena's) partner life every 3 minutes.

But that's the beauty of it!
If, say, Fire Elemental totem becomes too much of a problem, you just don't allow Wardens to have it. And if their output becomes too high, you just tune down the AP to SP conversion.

I wouldn't get my hopes up for Pandaria, but shaman tanking is a good candidate for a new tree in the next expansion, if they feel like adding more tanking. Of course, with monks closing in on the "agility tank" territory, it may be less likely. But never say never.

Is it, though?

I think that the fact that we've got our second agility tank means that Agility Staves and Polearms, as well as maybe dual sets of Fists, may be itemized towards tanks. This could create a niche for 2H Shammie tanks, tanking with Agility Mail not unlike Monks.

[Hursey]

Yeah I like the ideas. Also been in the shaman tanking is dead camp fro a while but there is something here that gives me the warm fuzzies.

As for gearing, really could just go with Agi mail, similar to how druids/monks use agi leather. IMO it's not really that bigger step if the tanking tree gets seperated out from the enhancement as are planning to do with the druid feral tree.

Weather it makes sense to do it or not though, I can't say

[madatom]

SOMEBODY STOP THEM

god please don't let this happen

[Cai]

i will agree with one thing that this was one very thought out plan for a "shaman tank"

what i dont like is there are ALOT of CD's there.. also would the tank spec stills use mana and how is it regen'd?

other than that dont see much to complain about

dead horse is dead, let it rest in peace...

[Nikkaszal]

The Harden skill looks like one that would require a shaman tank to be balanced around 100% uptime on it, and your Shield Wall ability has a ramp-up period.

Seeing as you've designed Motes of Power to be procs from melee hits from 2H weapons, this automatically makes this tank idea subpar.

A tank needs to be at maximum capability at all times, not just after 10-15seconds of ramp-up. What happens if they get a really unlucky proc streak? What happens if Motes of Power fall off due to a boss being unattackable in melee for a while? What happens if you need a 40% damage redux RIGHT NOW and you only have one Mote of Power available? You get an additional five to make six total, sure, but that means your primary defensive cooldown is at 24% redux which is just not gonna cut it.

If you've designed this around the idea of Motes of Power being reasonably fast to charge to alleviate these problems, then your Mastery becomes completely and entirely redundant. If the idea of Motes being, say, one every 5-8 seconds, then this tank is going to rely heavily on RNG and constant attacking uptime in order to just have its basic survivability.

[Arinnaya]

People thought that, then they added DKs, with three (at the time) tank specs, and the number of tanks in practice increased by precisely none. Whether people tank or not has everything to do with their mindset, not the character they happen to main at this moment.

Well, in fairness, the queues for tanks are very short for Dungeon Finder, and longer for Raid Finder. Having some of the Shaman tanking (since everyone can get dual-spec now) would alleviate some of the DF queue without affecting the RF queue significantly. There wouldn't be more "tanks" overall, because like you saying being a tank is a playstyle. However, there would be more people tanking in certain situations. I know that if I could tank on my Shaman I would do so for quicker queues and the Call to Arms bag if it's available. It wouldn't necessarily be my main spec (I tend to respec around what my guild does/doesn't have a lot of) for raiding but that doesn't mean I wouldn't break it out for heroics etc.

As for the post itself, I like some of the IDEAS behind it, even if it still needs some work. Like someone said, defense can't be based on a ramp-up, it needs to be there right when you need it.

If I was getting Shaman to tank, I'd give them the ability to wield polearms so they'd share weapons with Druids and Monks, then they'd just use normal Shaman armor (much like Druids do now) and their "presence" spell (like Blood Presence, Defensive Stance, Righteous Fury etc) which would reduce damage taken, reduce taken crit chance, increase armor and increase threat.

I'd then make Primal Strike the major melee attack, with Rockbiter as the melee weapon enchant which cause Primal Strike, Earth Shock and Earthen Smash (new ability) to reduce the enemy's physical damage by 10%. Earthen Smash would be the main AoE threat move which also applies the Earth Shock debuff. Then Shamanistic Rage made baseline (useful for Ele/Resto as well) as their 1 minute defensive cooldown, add a 50% damage reduction cooldown, then change Earth Elemental totem to a shorter-cooldown (say 3 minutes) with a different effect - instead of taunting it would protect anyone within 20 yards from death, sacrificing itself in the process, and also providing 20% damage reduction as long as it's alive (max duration of about 15 seconds). I'd use that ability where once the Shaman dies he's sort-of reborn as a Guardian of the Earth, with 15 seconds of 100% damage reduction before he dies for real since that sounds cool.

Apart from that, I'd add an active mitigation model of totems - grounding and stone bulwark are good examples of what I'd use - short durations etc but casting them at the right time reduces the damage - so a totem that reduces all magical damage for 3s or one that provides 25% extra dodge to the next 2 attacks, things like that.

[Deleted]

I think tanking shamans would be great, it would be fun and good for the game overall.
There's no reason not to do it.

[Omanley]

There's many reasons why shaman tanking would be a good idea, but not one for why it wouldn't be
-4 elements -> 4 specs
-earth fitting tanking perfectly
-Feral Spirit Howl
-Earth Elemental
-Rockbiter Weapon
-Stoneclaw Totem
-Unleash Rockbiter
-Earth Shock/Frost Shock extra threat
-Only non-tank class with toughness talent
-able to weild shields and wear mail
-Elemental Shields holding good tanking potential
-lots of dodge through agility
-Shaman players who love the class or simply have all their effort put into their shaman (achievements, pets, mounts, arena rating w/e ) and would tank if it were just possible would be added to tank avaiability
...and i possibly forgot a thing or two even.

As said in a thread months ago it is unlikely they're gonna do it. I dont think they're gonna change their minds about it although they did that on many other things.
I dont have expectations for it, nor would i cry, would it not happen. I'd be 100% content if enh were competitive in pvp in MoP, but shaman tanking would be a nice bonus for sure.

It basically comes down to many many advantages to a comparatively low amount of development time, which is why it should be done.

[Radux]

Do I think it'll happen immediately? No. I don't.

However, given Druids (feral) being split to 4 trees, I definitely could see Shaman being the next potential class to get a similar treatment.

[Kaj392]

Do I think it'll happen immediately? No. I don't.

However, given Druids (feral) being split to 4 trees, I definitely could see Shaman being the next potential class to get a similar treatment.

You can't compare Druids and Shamans, cause the two feral spec's are two completely different things, that's why they split them, not to make fun of other classes. "Nanana we druid's got 4 spec's suck it you Shaman's!"

I've said it here before, will do it again:

But yeah, adding a 4th spec for every class should mean that druid's get a 5th spec

If every class get's a new spec that hasn't been used before and is unique, then ^

[Deathgoose]

Druids currently have a Healing, Tanking, Ranged DPS, and Melee DPS spec. Why would they even need a 5th spec? Ranged Physical DPS like a Hunter?

Shaman having their Enhancement Spec split up like Druid's current Feral will have happin in MoP makes sense. Their gearing would be largely identical between the Enhance DPS vs Tank, other than enchants, gems, etc. Against, just like Feral Bears vs Feral Kitties.

I don't see it happening, but it makes sense.

[Omanley]

That doesn't make any sense at all. Druids had special treatment for 7 years through having 4 specs, why would it be unfair if they didn't get a new one when others got their number of specs raised to the same amount?

Its like being a dk, warlock or paladin and upon every class getting finally a class specific mount, you scream: NOOOOOEEES THAT'S SO UNFAIR, WHY DONT I GET NEW PONY AS WELL?!?!?!?111

And we perfectly know why blizz did what they did, thank you. We're not so dumb not getting it after already having read it in the news or justicer's thread. I mean the very thread you're posting in is an answer to another thread getting a blue response that says EXACTLY THIS. How are the chances we missed that part of all the things?
We simply dont care about that and still hope for it to happen, okay?

And there's no trolling/flaming w/e there. Dont wanna be banned for no apparent reason again.
Oh, and even if druids got a 5th spec, it wouldn't cover any new role so there'd be no point to it anyways. Justicer's posts suggest a dmg caster paladin and a tank shaman, and incidentally those are the ones missing to make both classes a 100% hybrid like druids.

edit: Also its funny how you say

You can't compare Druids and Shamans

, yet when it comes to getting a new spec, druids are suddenly exactly the same and need a new one as well.