Glyph of Cheap Shot, 9 sec stun?

[Verain]

It's gotta be a typo. CS isn't going to last 9 seconds no way.

I assure you it is no typo. it may have been a PROGRAMMING "typo", but we have different words for that, like "bug". It really does make it 9 seconds, and it really is exactly what you think it is. But yes, it was probably meant to add half a second, or one second.

As for 'longest stunlock", your best option wouldn't involve KS at all. You'd do the 9 second one (I think it is 8 in pvp), and then dance at the very end into another CS which would be 4.5 (not sure if 4 in pvp), and then since dance isn't over at the end, CS again for 2.25 (not sure if 2 in pvp). So best case, 8+4.5+2.25=14.75. That is a LEGENDARY stun lolol.


But as far as pvp balance on the beta- I saw an undead priest with no model standing on the air ganking anyone who completed the first two ally quests. I tried shsing up, but my character couldn't stand on the air like his could, so I could sadly not avenge my fallen monk, who knew not what happened to her. I would say invisible hovering casters beats a 9 second stun for most broken thing, but I would also say that neither of these will go live.

[Evolixe]

as i say, ive been playing in beta and cheapshot+kidneyshot= 13 sec stunlock

9 plus 3 is not 13.

[stabdu]

9 second Cheap Shot will never go live. If somehow it does, I almost think it's a bad thing as it must mean rogue damage must be completely gone.

[Resentful]

9 second Cheap Shot will never go live. If somehow it does, I almost think it's a bad thing as it must mean rogue damage must be completely gone.

Well the damage is very bad atm however a 9 second stun is not the way to fix it haha

- Loss of Ruthlessness
- Loss of P. Wounds
etc yada yada

[Evolixe]

Well the damage is very bad atm however a 9 second stun is not the way to fix it haha

- Loss of Ruthlessness
- Loss of P. Wounds
etc yada yada

Loss of a neverused talent?

Edit: BTW i need to know your character name, gimme a pm!

---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 05:57 PM ----------

You'd do the 9 second one (I think it is 8 in pvp), and then dance at the very end into another CS which would be 4.5 (not sure if 4 in pvp), and then since dance isn't over at the end, CS again for 2.25 (not sure if 2 in pvp). So best case, 8+4.5+2.25=14.75. That is a LEGENDARY stun lolol.

Actually, stuns aren't timecapped like other CC is. The Combat RvS stun right now goes beyond 8 aswell. Even in PvP.

[Deleted]

People aren't viewing the Cheap Shot change in relation to the other changes. They wanted to include Rupture in the Subtlety PvE rotation and did so by changing Sanguinary Vein, but recognising what a colossal nerf this is to PvP and target switching in general, and that our ramp up includes Rupture, Slice and Dice as well as Recuperate, that 9 seconds is actually required for us to begin doing proper damage. You can't view balance in terms of what will be annoying to other players, sitting in a 9 second stun will be annoying but is it required for us to function?

That is what Blizz seems to be telling us, and it rather demonstrates how drastically our playstyle is going to change if they can even contemplate a 9 second opening stun as being balanced.

I also think it's less important whether it goes live or not, surely the fact it made it onto beta at all is a big enough concern. The fact someone even came up with the idea and it made it through the development and testing process is quite alarming. It seems as though they have lost the plot when it comes to Rogues, if we have a direction its not immediately apparent and it certainly isn't being communicated by the devs. I find it amusing that this 9 second stun seems so implausible that almost everyone just assumed it was a typo, but no it was real, they really are that inept.

[Evolixe]

9 second stuns are not the answer to balance things out. ANY other change is better than this. No, there is no justifying a change alike. Not even with other classes being changed about either.

[Deleted]

Of course it's not the answer, but you can infer quite a lot from the fact they even thought it might be the answer. It's hilarious and terrifying at the same time.

[Evolixe]

That i agree with.

[Nyaldee]

Not going to happen. May be it's something like PvE duration (although dunno what for).

[Resentful]

Not going to happen. May be it's something like PvE duration (although dunno what for).

Doubtful on the pvE end, Rogue damage in the beta is absolutely garbage and this might be their compensation in terms of pvp however this ISN'T THE WAY to do it as I've stated.

[Deleted]

Not going to happen. May be it's something like PvE duration (although dunno what for).

You were saying?

h9.abload.de/img/cheapshotmalhn.jpg

[Deleted]

Priest / Warlock fear says hello.

AOE fear for 8 seconds = fine
9 second single target stun = OMG SO UNBALANCED!

Please. That is absurd.

Difference being that fear breaks on damage, if stuns were to break on damage too I'm all for it...

[Milkshake86]

If you don't understand how a fear that can be dispelled and breaks on damage is no where near a single target stun that has no cd (requires stealth) and cannot be dispelled and won't break on damage for those 9 seconds, then I must assume you are trolling, because your previous posts don't suggest you're that gullible.

Anyway, a 9 second stun would never go live, it's either a data mining or a bad joke. Any stun over 6 seconds would just be absurd.

In the event this is not just a screw up(which it likely is) 9sec will be reduced to probably 7, Healers are nearly impossible to kill on beta atm. Disc priests can chain 50k+ shields whilst kiting and healing for 45k as shields break expire etc, and just when you got em to 20% boom 50k proc shield. 9 second stun would not even allow that priest to die 2v1. Really get a hold of your senses, it is a mistake atm or it is one of many CC changes we will see.

[Verain]

Actually, stuns aren't timecapped like other CC is. The Combat RvS stun right now goes beyond 8 aswell. Even in PvP.

I'm actually pretty sure it is capped. At least, it really super looked that way, when my friends and I messed with it during I think 4.2?

Here's the thing- KS is 6 seconds base, and I think glyphed revealing should take it to 8.7- and I think it does versus mobs. You would expect it to say 8 for over half a second, but instead it ticks over to 7 right away. It should display 7 for all values >=7 and <8, and 8 for all values >8, so the fact that it basically never says 8 in pvp tells me that it's getting hit by the limit. Again, not entirely certain, but check again on live.

People aren't viewing the Cheap Shot change in relation to the other changes.

The problem here is that when you cheap shot someone, they aren't just stunned just for you. I'll also point out that I don't want to be balanced around having to land a 9 second initial stun, especially when everyone has plenty of counters for stuns in solo combat- so if this WAS a directional change, you can rest assured that your rogue will be ludicrously frustrating versus anyone who can cheese the stun in any way.

A bunch of dumb nerfs, or damage changes, won't make up for how ludicrous a 9 second opener stun is. If we do see something like this, they:

1)- Would not put it on a glyph that is suddenly pvp mandatory.
2)- Would likely make some other stun pretty generous.
3)- Would likely begin by making CS on its own DR, as it has been for much of the game.

You can't view balance in terms of what will be annoying to other players, sitting in a 9 second stun will be annoying but is it required for us to function?

I see Blizzard making some dumb decisions here and there, but let me tell you, this is the kind of change you wouldn't even see in a game with amateur hour developers. If Blizzard somehow came to the conclusion that subt. absolutely NEEDED an extra FIVE SECONDS on cheap shot, they would not have given it to all specs via a glyph, but long before it came to that, they would have not moved sub in that direction. Rest assured the rupture change is awful and takes sub into a terrible direction, and I think the devs might be doing that on purpose- but a 9 second cheap shot is stupid abuseable. Yes, even more than the 8 second kidney that we get to keep if we go combat.



For the rogues hoping this is real, I sympathize, but I gotta go with a more polite version of what Holo said. You have no idea how terrible this will be for pvp.

I would like us to be better at stuns. I do think we have lost some of our direction with the introduction of, and reduced cooldowns of, things like:
Frost Mage stun on very similar cooldown to kidney shot, with the only cost being its own cooldown and a global (versus losing combo points).
Can't reset KS with prep.
Lack of improved KS talents (the new nerve strike competes, but seriously, put deadly throw baseline- that's the change we should all be fighting for, get on the beta and tell me it isn't awkward and ludicrous to take anything but DT in that talent level.)
Warriors getting a kidney shot knockdown with the only penalty being a longer cooldown.
More ways out of stuns than back in the old days.

So I'd like stuns to be awesome and scary, and I'd like rogues to be best at them. But a nine second cheapshot?


Anyway, gotta be a data entry error in the code or something.

Of course it's not the answer, but you can infer quite a lot from the fact they even thought it might be the answer. It's hilarious and terrifying at the same time.

No, I think it's a mistake. Again, if they wanted us to stun so much more, they would have done it differently, not just put in an amazing and totally fun glyph that is fun because of its OPness.

[Eazy]

Oh and to all those rogues trying to even justify this sort of stuff.. you don't know what you talk about. Please keep PvEing but don't get involved into stuff you have no idea about.

What's bad in being OP? We are OP right now and I like it.

Tbh as I have said: I loved Stunlocking, but this is too much, they should make Kidney Shot and Cheap on the different DR.

[Deleted]

Anyway, gotta be a data entry error in the code or something.

I have to say I don't think it's a mistake like I first did, I think they are "trying things out", and there is some logic behind it when you view the change in context, even if the logic displays an astonishing level of ineptitude. It will be nerfed in the next build I'm sure, but I doubt they will come out and say it was a mistake because that would go against their apparent policy of not giving Rogues any blue posts during betas lol. A lot of people on the official forums are saying "don't worry guys I'm sure there are big changes coming" but I seriously doubt that now, it seems they want us to be this very low burst, mediocre sustained damage support class, which isn't so terrible as an overall direction but the way they are implementing it is terribly unappetising.

[Evolixe]

I'm actually pretty sure it is capped. At least, it really super looked that way, when my friends and I messed with it during I think 4.2?

Here's the thing- KS is 6 seconds base, and I think glyphed revealing should take it to 8.7- and I think it does versus mobs. You would expect it to say 8 for over half a second, but instead it ticks over to 7 right away. It should display 7 for all values >=7 and <8, and 8 for all values >8, so the fact that it basically never says 8 in pvp tells me that it's getting hit by the limit. Again, not entirely certain, but check again on live.

After a quick tryout on the Arena Pass Realms i have to indeed take back my previous statement. Stuns are also capped at 8 seconds.

[Deleted]

Well I guess if they can give rogues a 48% healing HoT over 30sec, they can give us a 9sec stun. I guess that 9sec stun is needed to counter Healers in MoP (hunter that is ;o)

[Zik3l]

If you don't understand how a fear that can be dispelled and breaks on damage is no where near a single target stun that has no cd (requires stealth) and cannot be dispelled and won't break on damage for those 9 seconds, then I must assume you are trolling, because your previous posts don't suggest you're that gullible.

Anyway, a 9 second stun would never go live, it's either a data mining or a bad joke. Any stun over 6 seconds would just be absurd.

Combat RVS Kidney says Hi from Live.