LFD and LFR are hurting WoW gameplay.

[SamR]

Could you help explain this? I don't know what iL is required to the first tier LFR nor the iL of the next sets of PvP gear. I know they've changed the way PvP gear works such that it becomes less effective in PvE, but I didn't know that the item levels have changed.

The short answer is that PvP stats(resil and power) are going to be free stats. That means that the equivalent PvP item is going to be lower iLvl than a PvE item since the PvP stats will not be counted in the iLvl budget. So the entry lvl crafted PvP blue at level 90 is going to be a lower iLvl than the entry level crafted PvE blue.

[Asmekiel]

I think regardless of whether people want to admit it or not, they are hurting the aspects of the game that make it an MMO.

I disagree with this. If there was no LFD/LFR I would always do dungeons/raids with the same people. always. Via LFD and LFR I meet different people. I have made enough friends on my own realm, LFD didn't change this one bit. But I don't have to know everyone, just like in real life there is a point where you have "enough" friends and you just don't do anything new without those people anymore. LFD addresses this for me and puts me in contact with people I don't know yet.

[Deleted]

I disagree with this. If there was no LFD/LFR I would always do dungeons/raids with the same people. always. Via LFD and LFR I meet different people. I have made enough friends on my own realm, LFD didn't change this one bit. But I don't have to know everyone, just like in real life there is a point where you have "enough" friends and you just don't do anything new without those people anymore. LFD addresses this for me and puts me in contact with people I don't know yet.

It puts you in contact with people you don't know yet for about 30 minutes. That doesn't really count, its like saying that taking the bus is a social experience. A bunch of people being in the same area for a short amount of time and then never meeting again isn't really much of a community booster.

That's not to say that LFR killed off any communities, but it certainly doesn't facilitate them. Zones for doing dailies did that, world bosses did it, world PvP did it and server-wide events did it. Trade chat and pugs do that... basically anything that lets you interact with people that you might run into again. LFR doesn't really fit that role.

[clevin]

I disagree with this. If there was no LFD/LFR I would always do dungeons/raids with the same people. always. Via LFD and LFR I meet different people. I have made enough friends on my own realm, LFD didn't change this one bit. But I don't have to know everyone, just like in real life there is a point where you have "enough" friends and you just don't do anything new without those people anymore. LFD addresses this for me and puts me in contact with people I don't know yet.

But the presences of LFD/R means that most people don't do things with random folks on their server so they don't encounter people whom they friend. Can you go out of your way to meet people on your server? I suppose... but for many of us the way we met people outside of our guild was by pugging with them. WoW doesn't really provide other ways to meet them, so the rise of LFD especially has meant the decline of the friends list for most people, esp newer people.

[SamR]

But the presences of LFD/R means that most people don't do things with random folks on their server so they don't encounter people whom they friend. Can you go out of your way to meet people on your server? I suppose... but for many of us the way we met people outside of our guild was by pugging with them. WoW doesn't really provide other ways to meet them, so the rise of LFD especially has meant the decline of the friends list for most people, esp newer people.

There are way more PuGs going on on my server for all sorts of things old and new than at any time in vanilla or TBC. If you can't find a PuG to group with, don't blame it on LFD/LFR.

[Deleted]

Removing LFR would be a step in the right direction. It does not provide anything for people except giving them free loot, but guess thats how casuals want it nowadays.

[Judge Malthred]

OP and most people who agree with his sentiment of hating LFR and LFD seem to have a nostalgic eye on how things used to be, IMO. Was it really enjoyable for you to spam for 30, 45, an hour or more trying to get a group together or call it for lack of people? That sure and hell isn't my idea of fun and I am glad to have LFR and LFD.

[Firebert]

The short answer is that PvP stats(resil and power) are going to be free stats. That means that the equivalent PvP item is going to be lower iLvl than a PvE item since the PvP stats will not be counted in the iLvl budget. So the entry lvl crafted PvP blue at level 90 is going to be a lower iLvl than the entry level crafted PvE blue.

Useful response, thanks. All that's left to be seen is if PvPers are still allowed access to LFR with PvP gear.

[RoKPaNda]

Even as a tank, a role that's never had issues finding a group, I love LFD/LFR. It makes casual play more possible, and even as a tank the old way of doing groups was a nightmare. Half way through a run someone had to leave? Zone out, spam trade, etc, check the useless LFG tool, send tells, spend ages looking for someone to come to the run ... Not good times.

LFR is great, if it wasn't for LFR I'd have nothing to do, my guild disbanded and tbh with my schedule being what it is I can't be bothered to form new friendships in a game that I don't know how long I'll be playing. LFR lets me see the content and gives me a reason to play my alts as well.

[BrokenHearthstone]

Disagree.

Not everyone is in a guild. Random groups are part of the game for many people now. It's something you can avoid, like PvP. Just run your raids and dungeons as a guild group.

Plus, being jealous of LFR gear is like being jealous of dole money...

I couldn't explain this better. Except he might be trying to say everyone is just doing LFR on his/her server, and no one actually does 10 mans.

[Dragore]

Removing LFR would be a step in the right direction. It does not provide anything for people except giving them free loot, but guess thats how casuals want it nowadays.

Your statement seems to be completely false. Based on other recent games being produced this was the right step. This also doesn't make sense how does removing LFR take away free loot. Sorry the casuals took away from your attention seeking epeen. People want to play the game not commit to ridiculous amounts of time to something to pointless.

[clevin]

There are way more PuGs going on on my server for all sorts of things old and new than at any time in vanilla or TBC. If you can't find a PuG to group with, don't blame it on LFD/LFR.

Old stuff: Yeah, if you want to run prior expac raids etc you can. But a lot of us have been there/done that. I don't want to run Kara, etc for the 103rd time.

New Stuff: I do blame LFD for making this far less common than it used to be. While it might be different on your server, most people I know either run pugs with people they already know or LFD it. Even as a DPS my queues are 10 mins or less. As a healer, they're instant. IF I want to run something why would I spend much time in trade dealing with the trolls and crap that's usually there? Sure, I *could*, but whereas before we needed to, now, we don't. Before, we would and as we met cool people we'd friend them. Now? We don't meet as many so we don't friend them.

It's not that someone can't make the effort, but one needs to make a concerted effort to go outside of the system and most people don't bother.

---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 11:53 AM ----------

OP and most people who agree with his sentiment of hating LFR and LFD seem to have a nostalgic eye on how things used to be, IMO. Was it really enjoyable for you to spam for 30, 45, an hour or more trying to get a group together or call it for lack of people? That sure and hell isn't my idea of fun and I am glad to have LFR and LFD.

This is why I said earlier I'm torn on LFD. It absolutely gets around the "all we need is a healer/tank" crap. My solution would, again, be to favor building a group from your home server so that if you have 4 people and you just need a tank it would look first on your server and only after, say, 2 minutes would it start looking in your battlegroup, etc.

[Vegemeat]

Yeah I know for someone that is playing about 5 hours a week can get LFR gear I know its bullshit but Idk what would actually fix the boringness. Don't you find weird that a level 85 can do LFR the same night he dinged?

ilvl restrictions say otherwise. GG sir GG

[americandavey]

Removing LFR would be a step in the right direction. It does not provide anything for people except giving them free loot, but guess thats how casuals want it nowadays.

Really? This is a casual issue now? Did I miss a thread on MMO-C or on official forums where casuals begged and pleaded for a Raid Finder? What do people wanting to lead a pug raid (previous tier or current tier). People to know the fights. People will better understand the mechanics of Boss fights based on Experience not watching some video of it. Yes I know its not 100% with the experience. And LFR gives them a basic concept of the fights.

Blizzard has said so many times people are not going to be special snowflakes yet people in the community continue to try. LFR and LFD is here to stay.

[lunchbox2042]

LFD and LFR are the main problems with Blizzard's philosophy of getting people out in the world. Why leave the safety of Stormwind or Orgrimmar when I can queue up for any event from there?

[Lilija]

Yeah I know for someone that is playing about 5 hours a week can get LFR gear I know its bullshit but Idk what would actually fix the boringness. Don't you find weird that a level 85 can do LFR the same night he dinged?

My boyfriend tanked normal LK with around 1day played at lvl 80 ... nothing new.

[Butterball]

Fail..no class exist without some kind of cc...actually the shaman have 1 of the best....

Shaman had CC in TBC? Strange.. I must have missed that one in my spellbook.

You fail sir, badly.

[vindicatorx]

I did it on my main (tank) to get my 4 piece tier. It really ruined the experience when we went to kill it on normal and heroic though because id already done the fights a dozen or more times between that and alts.

---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 12:08 PM ----------



There are things that appear good that have lasting negative effects.

Take a step back.

I take it you missed my first post a page before that one in which I explained I'm not able to raid normal raid times and I am also from a low pop server. Which means no one pugs in fact only 2-3 guilds per faction have cleared normal DS and as I said I am not able to raid when they do. I have an hour ok I'll log in and run half of DS in LFR and finish the rest in a few days. There is no need for me to have to plan my life around a scheduled raid. I don't have 3 hours to find competent people to do 3 bosses in DS. I am perfectly happy doing lfr and I don't see why so many of you give a rat's ass about someone else getting "gear too quickly" how does it affect you? It doesn't, I fail to see why people get pissy over some other person's pixels.

[Wilderness]

It puts you in contact with people you don't know yet for about 30 minutes. That doesn't really count, its like saying that taking the bus is a social experience. A bunch of people being in the same area for a short amount of time and then never meeting again isn't really much of a community booster.

That's not to say that LFR killed off any communities, but it certainly doesn't facilitate them. Zones for doing dailies did that, world bosses did it, world PvP did it and server-wide events did it. Trade chat and pugs do that... basically anything that lets you interact with people that you might run into again. LFR doesn't really fit that role.

A social experience is ... anything you make into a social experience. There is no reason that someone using LFD/LFR can't meet new friends, join them on realID, and run more content together. There's definitely going to be a lot of people who use those features who have no interest in doing so, and you can't change that, but in my experience so many of the people who complain that there is no social aspect to LFD and LFR are they themselves just as silent and anti-social as everyone else.

[vindicatorx]

Removing LFR would be a step in the right direction. It does not provide anything for people except giving them free loot, but guess thats how casuals want it nowadays.

Why do you care how hard it is for someone else to get loot? How does it affect you getting your NM or HM loot? I think you need to rethink what casual means. I've been here since vanilla, I have been in a progression guild every expansion until last November when I had too much real life stuff to do. This is a game, for some a hobby, it is supposed to be fun if you don't like LFR don't use it. If you want a challenge go do NM and HM content the gear there is barely harder to get minus some of the HM. Stop worrying about other people who don't want to play the way you do. It's time for a lot of you to grow up and try seeing the LFR tool from the perspective of those it was designed for, people who don't play 20+ hours a week, or who are on low pop servers where LFR allows them to do something, or those who are still tweaking their skills on their class. I'm tired of all the pretentious douchebags who think the majority don't get a say in how the game will work out.