You know you are in a bad game when...

[Pandorox]

When Karthus burns all his mana on minions & trash talks everyone in the game.

When Riven steals blue buff from mages/nukes.

When Darius builds pure tank build on patch day.

[Kurdiern]

He means mandreds razors not mandreds bloodrazors. The upgrade to wriggles is pointless on WW as he has enough sustain.

But no, he does not have his strengths. His ganks after level 6 are still subpar compared to many people, while still having an abysmal clear speed, easy to counterjungle, can't counterjungle at all, bad matchups ect. Hes just generally not a good jungler.

Edit: And 'he can duel and beat anyone in the jungle'. REALLY. Really? He can fight Mundo? Or Udyr? Or Lee Sin. Let me answer that, no he cannot, especially not in the very early levels, they will utterly destroy him, and people like Shyvana, or anyone with a move speed increase, can just turn it on and walk off and there is basically nothing he can do about it. My route vs WW jungles is wolves to blue to your red, because you clear so slowly I can take it and leave before you even get there. Or I can just camp out the bush for easy first blood, but the problem is I am usually waiting so long for him to finally get there it wastes too much time.

Why would you build a Mandred's if you aren't going to upgrade it into a Madred's or Wriggles at some point. Wriggles is bad on WW. Madred's is still an overhyped item that isn't that good, even on WW.

Pre 6 his ganks are horrible. After 6? Apparently a 700 range 1.8 second hard CC is bad for ganking. It isn't. It's still one of the best ganking abilities in the game.

Very early game? No he won't win, because that is when WW is weakest, both in lane and jungle. After that, midgame? Yes, yes he can. WW can duel anyone simply because he outsustains their damage. A 6 second Max Health % lifesteal and his passive literally means he will beat you 1v1 simply because you can't kill him. Running from him is difficult as hell when he has bloodscent up. Unless you're running Ignite or have a Morello's/Executioners, both the former and latter never being used w/Junglers, you won't beat him.

For everything else you just repeated what I said earlier.

[Darkdruidelf]

Why would you build a Mandred's if you aren't going to upgrade it into a Madred's or Wriggles at some point. Wriggles is bad on WW. Madred's is still an overhyped item that isn't that good, even on WW.

Pre 6 his ganks are horrible. After 6? Apparently a 700 range 1.8 second hard CC is bad for ganking. It isn't. It's still one of the best ganking abilities in the game.

Very early game? No he won't win, because that is when WW is weakest, both in lane and jungle. After that, midgame? Yes, yes he can. WW can duel anyone simply because he outsustains their damage. A 6 second Max Health % lifesteal and his passive literally means he will beat you 1v1 simply because you can't kill him. Running from him is difficult as hell when he has bloodscent up. Unless you're running Ignite or have a Morello's/Executioners, both the former and latter never being used w/Junglers, you won't beat him.

For everything else you just repeated what I said earlier.

Believe me, he cannot duel mundo, among so many other champions. He is not a good duelist, even midgame. He also has 0 mobility, so even if he was winning a duel (the person he was duelling was bad, for example), Mundo presses R and walks off while kiting with cleavers, Shyvana presses W and walks off, Lee sin ward jumps over a wall and walks off, Naut hooks himself to a wall then walks off, Riven jumps off, Skarner presses W and walks off, Jax ward jumps over the wall and walks off. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

And I didnt say his ganking was bad, I said it was still SUBPAR. He can only gank with his ulti which is once every 2 minutes or so. Lee Sin, for example, can gank every 10 seconds and his ganks are as good, if not better, than WWs, while also being more frequent.

Due to his passive, Skarners ulti is up much much faster than WWs, and is essentially just a better version of his, except because you can Q them while ulting them as Skarner, as soon as they get out of it they are also perma slowed and have been dragged away from their turret. And Skarner can also gank without his ulti.

Maokai has much more CC and again he doesn't need to wait 2 minutes between ganks. Same deal with Naut.

[Deleted]

When the enemy has first pick, and your team doesn't ban Shen.... And then your first 2 picks are instalock Tristana and Karma...
When 60-80% of your team is polish.
When your team has 2-3 Assassin champions.

[Kurdiern]

Believe me, he cannot duel mundo, among so many other champions. He is not a good duelist, even midgame. He also has 0 mobility, so even if he was winning a duel (the person he was duelling was bad, for example), Mundo presses R and walks off while kiting with cleavers, Shyvana presses W and walks off, Lee sin ward jumps over a wall and walks off, Naut hooks himself to a wall then walks off, Riven jumps off, Skarner presses W and walks off, Jax ward jumps over the wall and walks off. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

And I didnt say his ganking was bad, I said it was still SUBPAR. He can only gank with his ulti which is once every 2 minutes or so. Lee Sin, for example, can gank every 10 seconds and his ganks are as good, if not better, than WWs, while also being more frequent.

Due to his passive, Skarners ulti is up much much faster than WWs, and is essentially just a better version of his, except because you can Q them while ulting them as Skarner, as soon as they get out of it they are also perma slowed and have been dragged away from their turret. And Skarner can also gank without his ulti.

Maokai has much more CC and again he doesn't need to wait 2 minutes between ganks. Same deal with Naut.

We obviously have differing opinions on dueling, but I still stand firmly by the fact he can. He doesn't outdamage opponents. He outsustains them. Passive flat lifesteal and a low CD % max health damage w80% lifesteal makes him almost impossible to beat 1v1 because he WILL wear you down.

Mobility=/= CC. He has mobility, Blood Scent is fantastic as it gives a very good speed boost and vision, only drawback being the health requirement. In the examples you gave, he would still be able to chase a retreating Riven, Shyv, and Skarner with blood scent. The others you listed have CC.

Subpar? His ulti CD is only 90 seconds at lvl 6, Skarner's is still 130, even with the passive. He's an Ulti reliant jungler, but not the only one. His ganks when his Ulti is up are pretty much a guaranteed kill assuming yo bothered to coordinate with your lane for a t least 2 seconds.

Obviously he isn't a tier 1 pick, but you're making him out to be absolutely garbage. Is he a better top laner? Yes. Should he never be played jungle? No. He's a slow jungler that needs his jungle protected early game, but he has solid ganks and scales well into mid/late game.

[Darkdruidelf]

We obviously have differing opinions on dueling, but I still stand firmly by the fact he can. He doesn't outdamage opponents. He outsustains them. Passive flat lifesteal and a low CD % max health damage w80% lifesteal makes him almost impossible to beat 1v1 because he WILL wear you down.

Mobility=/= CC. He has mobility, Blood Scent is fantastic as it gives a very good speed boost and vision, only drawback being the health requirement. In the examples you gave, he would still be able to chase a retreating Riven, Shyv, and Skarner with blood scent. The others you listed have CC.

Subpar? His ulti CD is only 90 seconds at lvl 6, Skarner's is still 130, even with the passive. He's an Ulti reliant jungler, but not the only one. His ganks when his Ulti is up are pretty much a guaranteed kill assuming yo bothered to coordinate with your lane for a t least 2 seconds.

Obviously he isn't a tier 1 pick, but you're making him out to be absolutely garbage. Is he a better top laner? Yes. Should he never be played jungle? No. He's a slow jungler that needs his jungle protected early game, but he has solid ganks and scales well into mid/late game.

Yeah the problem is that you 'whittling them down' theory doesn't hold up in practice. His sustain is good, but have you ever read Mundo's abilities? He crushes WW into fine paste.

And blood scent hardly counts, because any smart person will not let WW get to that point. If they realise in the first second that they are losing the duel, turn on their speed and run away, and there is literally nothing he can do. Having a WW jungler on the other team may as well be a free invitation into their jungle whenever you please.

[Kurdiern]

Yeah the problem is that you 'whittling them down' theory doesn't hold up in practice. His sustain is good, but have you ever read Mundo's abilities? He crushes WW into fine paste.

And blood scent hardly counts, because any smart person will not let WW get to that point. If they realise in the first second that they are losing the duel, turn on their speed and run away, and there is literally nothing he can do. Having a WW jungler on the other team may as well be a free invitation into their jungle whenever you please.

It really isn't a theory. I've seen multiple WW's beat Mundo, flat lifesteal is better than % health early/mid. WW is the king of Sustain. Mundo is the king of "oh shit I need heal super quick."

I brought up Blood Scent because in your examples you had them retreating after losing a duel. It's a situational move speed, but it's one of the best in the game when it activates.

Anyway I'm done derailing this thread for now anyway.

[Deleted]

When J4 ultis Riven.

[Rakhal]

When J4 ultis Riven.

If you think that's bad, you should take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go1zAOcm29Q

OT: Whenever I play draft and people don't even try to counterpick.

[Deleted]

When you have 1 top, 2 mids and 2 junglers and you're the only one trying to make it work.

[Cambra]

I know i'm in a bad game when people fight me for mid when i'm playing as Ahri because "They called it first"

[Nest]

When someone tells "mid or I troll". I just dodge those queues, cant stand that shit. ;D
Or when a champion that is supposed to burst quickly goes full defensive with his items.
Overall those guys who talk a lot of trash and at the end just yell "EASY GG" make me want to cry.

[Deleted]

When LB builds Grail.

/facepalm.

[Deepsidedj]

people still play this crap? i unistalled 2 months ago

[Thallidomaniac]

When LB builds Grail.

/facepalm.

Could be worse. I had a game where both the enemy Amumu and enemy Nasus both built Grails. Really?

[Deleted]

About LB.. when she builds 6 kage's lucky picks...

[Darkdruidelf]

About LB.. when she builds 6 kage's lucky picks...

Upgrade them all to DFGs. Then your burst combo is 1-2-3-4-5-6-Q-R. Instagib that Cho'Gath.

[Deleted]

When your team has an AD Kassadin...

[Deleted]

When your whole team is made up of free week champions.

[Deleted]

When you pick Twitch.
Then someone picks Draven.
Then someone picks Darius.
Then someone picks Varus.
Then someone picks jungle Wukong.

Then Darius wonders why Twitch is roaming so much.
Then Darius lets people walk away from free ulti-kills.
Then after the game they say to report me for trolling.
And the trolliest thing you ever said was "Gogo AD jungle too!" on champion select.