Nice wall of text, but your thesis fails the logic test.
Nice wall of text, but your thesis fails the logic test.
^ The above should be taken with two grains of salt and a fistful of "chill the F* out".
False premise.
False premise.1)Free to play will attract less desirable players.
Terrible analogy, does not support the premise.a) Imagine a sub-mmo being like a restaurant.Where the price of the food is decent.All kind of folks go eat there,and you rarely have rude people.
Then imagine the restaurant becoming free.You can eat there for free,only some types of food require payment.
While the food still has the same quality you can already foresee what kind of people will go to that restaurant.There will be way more rude and unpleasant people.In our case,an mmo,there will be way more trolls,douchebags and scammers.
False premise.b)It will also attract lower quality gamers.
You make a lot of predictions here based on nothing. No references, no supporting facts, just a lot of predictive nonsense. Does not support any premise mentioned so far.Obviously the group in a) fits this description.But it also will attract people who aren't really interested in the game,but are willing to try it because it's free.Those types of people while mostly come and go,play sporadically...actually they will not add much ''value players'' to the game.
By that I mean players who are genuinely interested in the game and will actively be part of the community,they will be your raiding friends,they will bring competitivity to the game.
As is the entirety of your post, not to mention vaguely anecdotal.While the ''free casual'' type of players don't actually do anything bad and they even add value players in small numbers they do break down the social climate.
This is of course subjective.
It's clear here that you don't understand how player populations work. Does not support any premise.This is out of the pov of the active and involved player.Not necessarily only hardcore player,the midcore (casual active) player too.
To state the obvious,an mmo is a social game,the more game is flooded with ''free casual'' players,the more you have to deal with them,the less chance for you to encounter like-minded players because you have to filter through a bigger less desirable crowd.
This is the closest you came in your whole post to saying something factual/objective.They will also make value players leave who don't like F2p games for this reason.You can count me as one of those.
False premise.So to say these players don't have a bad intention,but things are what they are,they lower the social quality of the game.
False premise.2)Free to play will lead to greedy content. Content designed in a way for you to go to the cash shop asap.
Subjective reasoning.I can't understand how people like to think about money while they play,that's why I like sub-based mmo's,you pay once a month and you're DONE,you can go on enjoying the game,and if you want something in the game,you actually play the game for it.I may be too old school but I like the idea of doing something in the game to get a reward I want.
More subjective reasoning.Call me old school again but when I buy a game I expect it to have the actual game.
Not the ''main part'' of the game while you're expected to pay for extra DLC,cash shop,...
Not even sure what that means.About the developing part.Things are what you put into it.
Can't see the forest for the trees... I think Star Wars: The Old Republic will be just fine without players who don't understand alternative pay models and are so attached to the old way of doing things that they become irrational when faced with the prospect of change. Please move on.What kind of game do you expect when it's mostly free and the company need to make money through their cash shop?
Its not gonna grow into something impressing that way.
^ The above should be taken with two grains of salt and a fistful of "chill the F* out".
1) Wall of text hits your eyeballs like the Death Star.
2)If your quote above is indicative of what kinds of players won't be around when F2P hits, sign me up a hundred times. I'm glad that you 'count yourself' as one of the 'value players' that would leave. If everyone who thought like this were to up and leave internet forums and all MMOs, I think the world would collectively rejoice.
Most of your arguments are just bashing on people with no basis for those opinions.
Last edited by Kelimbror; 2012-08-09 at 08:01 PM.
What an empty reply.You don't expect people to take you seriously when you don't provide anything constructive yourself?
Shouting ''it's wrong'',literally anyone can do it.
Just slow down there.
Post your arguments about the subject and then maybe we can start thinking about who's right.
While he's post might not be factually correct yours is even worse, you dismiss he's whole post without even the slightest hint of intelligent reasoning nor argument. I'd love to see your factual support for the claim that alternative pay methods are better or equally good, and even if they are equally good why it's bad to want the one over the other.
^ The above should be taken with two grains of salt and a fistful of "chill the F* out".
Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.
Yeah, but you didn't support that statement at all. It's purely subjective.
Just saying that something is rare doesn't mean it's so. If you want to make the argument that F2P games attract undesirable players with greater frequency, then say that (first of all) and then back it up.
^ The above should be taken with two grains of salt and a fistful of "chill the F* out".
Well the "short term" results we've seen for games like DDO and LotRO would appear to be exactly the sort of thing a game with ongoing severe retention problems would need. Of course "long term" could be something else entirely and I personally doubt how a game as almost shockingly linear as TOR is will benefit for long, retention-wise, even when offering such content for free.
Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.
---------- Post added 2012-08-09 at 08:35 PM ----------
What,do you really believe a free game will actually attract a crowd of people as involved and pleasant as opposed to a P2P where the players are so interested they're willing to pay and support the game?
Also people tend to respect what they payed for,when there's no money to hold them back,a lot of unpleasant players will act out.
They will care less about getting banned,it's free anyway,or they can make a free account and try to troll on that one.
This is just 1 example of the many bad sides of F2P.
Last edited by mmocba4f7a59a4; 2012-08-09 at 08:36 PM.
It appears that you actually do not know what a content update is. A content update adds content. Rated WZs are not new content (well, it depends on who you ask, but since they're just the same WZs with a rating attached, I wouldn't call them new content). LFG is a feature, not content. Class updates, augmenting updates, etc, are all mechanical tweaks/fixes and not content. 1.3 was not a content patch.
Therein lies the problem. You need to preface this as your opinion, or at the very least qualify your statements as opinions.
You didn't do that. You made a lot of statements that look like they're trying to be facts and some that are trying to be predictions. You framed your entire rant as though it was a statement of irrefutable fact. That's bad form.
It would have been fine if you'd bothered to put any facts in it.
Observational comments about your poor writing habits and broken logic are not empty. If you're here expecting a debate about something, you'd better be equipped to handle it. So far, your first attempt is an abject failure.Well welcome to an mmo fansite.
Here we use our experience,our expectations,our personal views on the world to form an opinion.
Each one thinks what he posts is right,and we tend to debate what's truly right.
So far you're only blaming me for not being able to accurately predict the future or whatever you view as ''not pulled out of my ass''.
I actually summed up all your posts towards me in that last 1 sentence,do you now understand why your posts are empty?
Last edited by Profyrion; 2012-08-09 at 08:46 PM.
^ The above should be taken with two grains of salt and a fistful of "chill the F* out".
My Wall of text didn't survive.
Shortly,I'm wrong cause I made this all up?
Well no,me being the source of all these claims does not necessarily make me wrong.
In fact you said I was wrong without posting any arguments,so you also pulled out of your behind that I was wrong because I made this up.
Does that mean you consider yourself wrong since you made your ''wrong claim'' up and this makes me right?
edit:
Reading your reply to my misfortuned Wall of text,I must say you don't have the right to judge me when you apparently descended to my level when you answered my ''bad rant''.If you were not (dare I be rude) an hypocrite you would have pointed out to me that I was posting in a bad manner and you would have countered my arguments ignoring the ''bad'' setting I've apparently put them in.That way you would have been righteous and maybe a century closer to calling one my posts an abject failure.
Last edited by mmocba4f7a59a4; 2012-08-09 at 08:54 PM.
I have yet to use the word "wrong" in this thread.
Your post was so disjointed, so poorly supported, and so wildly irrational/illogical that it did not warrant discussion. If you have a point you're trying to make (and I suspect there is one hidden in there somewhere), you're free to make it at any time.
Last edited by Profyrion; 2012-08-09 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Edited to include quote.
^ The above should be taken with two grains of salt and a fistful of "chill the F* out".
Do you currently play an F2P game? Have you interacted with the commnuity of that game by asking for help, running dungeons, or PVP of some sort? If not, then like the Prof said you are just making claims without support. It's not even about being factual or needing to state it's your opinion. It's about the fact that you gave no personal weght to your claim.
So either you don't play them and have no input other than conjecture, or you do and we'd like to hear your experience. Let me give you an example, that happens to be true, and let it be a guide on how to support your opinions.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have played and still play LotRO. I have played for free, purchased points, and subbed from time to time. I can honestly say I've never had a bad experience with the people playing. In fact, almost every person I have interacted with has been helpful and friendly. I have overall enjoyed ever bit of my F2P experience with that game since it switched in 2010.
While your personal experience might be vastly different, I will disagree with your points entirely because of my anectdotal evidence.
Unfortunatly I knew SWTOR may (or most likely will go) F2P even before launch. It's launch was great, but could not hold players in. I did warn Bioware on forums this will happen, they did not listen.
They pulled a SOE on SWTOR fans. How soe make CU and NGE system on swg, and not listening to it's players, Bioware did that again. They just looked like they were "listening", but only posts that does not matter entirely. SWTOR was too WoW in Star wars skin, and guess what? I was dead right.
I do not think F2P model will help them in a least bit. Their head Developer is from the head department from customer service, and by that, Bioware (or EA) hired the wrong guys to make SWTOR, they also hired the guys who brought Jump to the lightspeed for SWG (which ended up losing subs upon release). SWTOR is set to shutting down, it is laughable really, game spent million dollars on USELESS voice overs, and the game goes F2P (or shutting down) in 11 months, not even a full year. Yeah they said F2P is set at November. But As much as i love SW (I still play SWG), swg was way more successful then SWTOR.
The question now is, will the free to play model going to saved the game? Or will it set to the depths of MMO Graveyard.