Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Lunavale]

with the fact that neither of the GCDs from TV or DS benefit from haste

Why do people still think this is the case? It was proven way back at the start of 5.0 that SoB reduces the GCD of TV and DS.

[Dragoons]

depends on gear and expertise levels. Boris would overcap me with gear I have now so Uroe> Boris

So would something more like Greatsword --> Boris/Uroe --------> Council sword depending on gear.

[Weightlifter]

How big DPS loss would it be to enchant my Wrathion cloak with 200 stamina instead of 180 crit? The reason is that I also use it for my tanking spec

[Deleted]

How big DPS loss would it be to enchant my Wrathion cloak with 200 stamina instead of 180 crit? The reason is that I also use it for my tanking spec

Easiest way is to sime your char, but in all honesty 200 stam shouldnt make a difference if your dieing as prot. You will more likely die to you not playing properly or lack or external cd's etc on you.

[Deleted]

How big DPS loss would it be to enchant my Wrathion cloak with 200 stamina instead of 180 crit? The reason is that I also use it for my tanking spec

You can also just enchant hit and adjust your reforges.

[Bonkura]

You can also just enchant hit and adjust your reforges.

which you should do as prot either way.

[MerinPally]

which you should do as prot either way.

Only if you're in like full BiS gear. Before that there are certain gear mixes that leave you at like 9% hit, even at LFR levels let alone heroic. So it's not a certain thing to do, but you are correct in the fact that people forget and should do this eventually. Can eek out a little bit more haste/crit/mastery that way.

[Bonkura]

was gonna say that but thoght it was obvious. :>

[MerinPally]

was gonna say that but thoght it was obvious. :>

It is to myself and most but there's a lot of people who still get angry at protection paladins taking "retribution gear" and insist that dodge and parry are the way to go. Thought I'd clarify. Not a week goes by without a new "Confused about prot gearing" thread

[Deleted]

Not to derail this thread any further, but I still need to explain to my guild master why I gear for haste weekly.

But more ret and less prot please.

[dagachi]

I was wondering if someone could point me to the thread/post that states Divine Purpose would be superior to Sanctified Wrath for T16 4pc?

[Krekko]

I was wondering if someone could point me to the thread/post that states Divine Purpose would be superior to Sanctified Wrath for T16 4pc?

This is the thread, if you look back you can find the post. It's best it's seen in context and the discussion about it be read, feel free to take a look back and read forward.

[Alviarin]

Haha, well I must admit this made me laugh :

We do often buff the passive that many specs have (e.g. Sword of Light for my fav spec) as a tuning knob.

[Dragoons]

Haha, well I must admit this made me laugh :

We do often buff the passive that many specs have (e.g. Sword of Light for my fav spec) as a tuning knob.

Lol. Sorry but if Blizz actually used is as a knob it would be turned much earlier then they usually do. It's more like THROW THE LEVER, IGOR!!!!! Yeah not buying that load of bull for a minute.

[Deleted]

Lol. Sorry but if Blizz actually used is as a knob it would be turned much earlier then they usually do. It's more like THROW THE LEVER, IGOR!!!!! Yeah not buying that load of bull for a minute.

the problem is that most tuning issues aren't related to overall performance, but by single ability imbalances or by imbalances of mastery or procs. for example, frost mages were mainly OP because of their mastery burst. And because of those same singular imbalances, the "tuning knob" can give weird results if used wrong, like an ability which suddenly becomes OP because of the knob.

It does make you wonder: When they're not adjusting performance, is it because of above concerns? is it because they don't think it's an issue?

And please, cut with the "GC hates paladins" crap. I doubt GC would still be working for Blizzard if he actually consistently held certain specs back. Remember that paladins are one of the most popular classes, if not the most. I main a paladin. 80%-90% of the posters in this thread main a paladin. The Paladin class forum has by far the most posts out of any class forum on MMO-champion, and is still ahead on threads. The ret and prot spec guides (I consider this the ret guide, not that 10 page outdated crap that's stickied) are the 2 single biggest spec guides on here, with 216 and 196 pages each. What I'm trying to say is if GC REALLY tried to hold paladins back or even just ignore them, he would get fired for malicious intent.

besides, if you objectively look at the changes ret paladins got during this expansion, Ret has gotten nearly nothing but good changes, either because they buff us or because they're QoL changes. Even if you look at changes like the 5.2 T14 redesign, that nerf was needed because it would else totally imbalance paladins.

looking at a pure change by change basis, I can see the following ret nerfs since 5.1:

1) 20 second CD nerf on 4PT14
2) .2 second repentance nerf
3) 4PT14 redesign (which was actually a net buff because the previous effect was made baseline).
4) seal of insight nerf, which is inconsequental
5) HoPurity nerf

that's it. When looked at every change our class received objectively, we got 5 nerfs during the entire expansion. Everything else we got was a buff (even if they don't apply to your content type) or a QoL change. could you give me one other spec which got less than 5 nerfs during the entire expansion?

[Deleted]

We got buffs because despite that we are still needing some xD
but yeah, at least we've been heard this expac

[Kragshot]

Hey, I was waiting to see if anybody would get to your question who would know better because I've never had a spark, nobody has bitten though. I think that spark would be better at that gear lvl. Especially if yours is TF and the talisman isn't.

Thanks a ton...I was still unsure on that. Before I got my TF Spark, I had tried the Primordius trinket. It dropped my haste to about 14.5K which was still decent for 522 gear, and I was getting about 3 stacks of Rampage on average...but it was a smoother ramp-up on the pull than it was using the Spark. But with the TF Spark, my haste is at 16K+ and at 522 iLVL, you can't ignore the benefits.

Anyway; thanks again for the response and advice.

[Eon Drache]

Snip long post

But a Pally killed his parents!!!

To be fair, I'm pretty happy with where Ret is and is going. Except I want my Ashbringer 100% of the time, but alas, we can't have it all.

[cidic]

Finally got a Heroic weapon off a bonus roll... and Yet SoO is coming out.... but hell It's about time!!!

[Krekko]

But a Pally killed his parents!!!

To be fair, I'm pretty happy with where Ret is and is going. Except I want my Ashbringer 100% of the time, but alas, we can't have it all.

But Ghostcrawler promised us a Pony!


See though?! Somebody gets it. That's exactly what I'm saying, why can't we just have the Ashbringer 100% of the time?

I too am happy the steps which Ret has taken and am excited to see where that furthers in the next expansion. I think that with a post/tweet we got a few months back we can expect a few bigger/dynamic changes and I don't so much mind that.

I think that Ret is one of the few specs that was built around a fundamentally broken core and they've been trying to work with it as time has gone on. Call me hopeful but I think they're onto a happy place for us.