Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Bonkura]

Except nearly every top ranked ret is following 40% theory. Funny how math suggestions work in the real world no?

All top Rets clearly need to get better MS so they can squeeze out that extra 1K deeps.

[Octa]

Having just rerolled ret from Prot on my Paladin I was checking some of the rets in the top guilds, what you're saying just isn't true. It seems to be an almost even split just from what I've seen.

Where/how were you checking out the top ranked rets?

[anaxie]

Honestly I just checked rets that matter. Aka front page rets that have been there for years

[Deleted]

Honestly I just checked rets that matter. Aka front page rets that have been there for years

Hardly a groundbreaking analysis. It wouldn't be too hard to prove that there is a correlation between people who have 40% haste, and people who do well on ranks (if that is the case). Checking Rets that ''matter and have been here for years'', isn't the way to do it.

[Deleted]

Where/how were you checking out the top ranked rets?

I checked those who were in the top 10 on fights like Juggernaut, Sha of Pride, Dark Shamans, Malkorok etc where they are mostly single target, but also checking how much they were cleaving on the encounters where possible. Then I chose some from Guild's that I recognised to be in the top 20 or thereabouts and were on the front pages of most fights.

[Skarssen]

Clearly only people who post rank 1's every fight and who raid with world top 10 guilds know anything about paladins. In fact, if you don't post rank 1's and don't have heroic Garrosh on farm by now you should probably quit the game and uninstall because you must be a scrub who has no knowledge of paladins or the game in general.

[anaxie]

Well I wasn't going to say that but now that you mention it.....

In truth its the end of expac if u want to prove accepted things wrong you are Sol till next summer launch

[Deleted]

A lot of people doing the same thing might make it accepted, it doesn't make it more true though. All I've seen so far is that 40% haste allows for a 16th (I think it was 16) HoW during AW, this is true, the problem is we don't know if that suddenly makes mastery more valuable than haste. Sure 16 HoWs during AW is nice, but so is critting a lot, so why not go full crit? What is nice and feels good in the rotation doesn't equate best.

Please enlighten me if I've missed anything.

[Deleted]

Clearly only people who post rank 1's every fight and who raid with world top 10 guilds know anything about paladins. In fact, if you don't post rank 1's and don't have heroic Garrosh on farm by now you should probably quit the game and uninstall because you must be a scrub who has no knowledge of paladins or the game in general.

That's not what I was saying when I said those were the rets I looked at. But if I have to look somewhere, then I want to try and find people with similar gear levels to myself and that are pushing the biggest numbers. There might be many really good rets with little to no progress in SoO Hc, but it is much harder to find those people, because if they aren't posting anything anywhere or doing top dps on fights, there isn't any other tool to rate them outside of raiding with them or talking to them.

I've only started using this forum thread and I certainly don't intend to read through 270 pages of comments to try and find all of the active rets and then checking each and every one of them. The best way that I can think of is to try something that others are doing and then go from there, maybe trying something else or sticking to something because I think it will be best for getting results.

What Zardox has said is a good example of this. So far (I think 40% haste actually gives the 14th HoW during AW with SW) I have seen no proof that 40% haste is a noticeable breakpoint in haste, but then I haven't looked into it that much. It might work out better, or crit reforging and gemming could work better, but I personally won't try something without understanding any particular theorycrafting for making those choices. Because I wouldn't feel confident standing up and saying 'I'm going for X% haste and Y% Mastery and full crit after that' or anything along those lines, without fully understanding why I'm going for those amounts.

[Fiddlesnarf]

Wow this thread went downhill fast, Ghostcrawler conspiracy theories and meme spam...

[Fredzilla]

Wow this thread went downhill fast, Ghostcrawler conspiracy theories and meme spam...

Well technically it WAS a spiderman thread for a bit there, so it was technically on topic =P

[Fhi]

Well technically it WAS a spiderman thread for a bit there, so it was technically on topic =P

Shh .

[konne]

50% haste is the cap. If you feel that u cant keep up with the speed ds and dp procs with haste near cap, then lower it. 40% is and has been always bullsh*t

[Deleted]

...

This "breakpoint" at 40% haste is pretty much a guess. I gem mastery after 40% haste, because at heroic Klaxxi the dps during cooldowns on Skeer / Korven / Xaril is more important than overall dps. But that is not true for every boss, so there is no reason to call it "the way to go". Stacking haste to 40% or to 50% are both viable options.

[Deleted]

What do you guys think of going with HA if you have EEoG HC (574)? GoAK becomes 2.03 min (2 min 1.6s) so it basically lines up perfectly with HA? Is it viable or is SW still the only way to go for ST?

Another question; is 2-set the best option to go for ST? If yes, what piece more than chest would be the best to use then?

Sorry if this has been answered in one of the previous posts here, I'm too lazy to check.

Thanks!

[Deleted]

What do you guys think of going with HA if you have EEoG HC (574)? GoAK becomes 2.03 min (2 min 1.6s) so it basically lines up perfectly with HA? Is it viable or is SW still the only way to go for ST?

Another question; is 2-set the best option to go for ST? If yes, what piece more than chest would be the best to use then?

Sorry if this has been answered in one of the previous posts here, I'm too lazy to check.

Thanks!

SW becomes stronger with EEoG because of reduced wings cd. HA isn't affected. -> HA is shit, use SW for single target
The 4p bonus is strong, do not unequip it. It's like a better DP - the free DS does a little more damage than a TV.

[Rathimis]

50% haste is the cap. If you feel that u cant keep up with the speed ds and dp procs with haste near cap, then lower it. 40% is and has been always bullsh*t

Let's see some sims to support that

[Bonkura]

Let's see some sims to support that

Screw Sims. As I already pointed out earlier (in a slightly sarcastic way) these high haste amounts rarely work in practice. It's very hard to get use of so much haste and with such a clusterfuck rotation as we're having right now it's almost impossible to get any advantage from it in a raid environment. There's lag (MS/FPS), reaction times, using utility spells and maybe most importantly movement to take into consideration.

Ret isn't like Frost DK or Assassination Rogue, spamming 2 buttons to win. We actually have to make a lot of decisions on the go which makes optimizing our rotation far from easy. Aquiring haste above 15-16k rating makes this insanely hard to manage. With Crit/Mastery being so close in theory it's a very easy decision to stop stacking haste at this point. That's why people have made up the 40% number as a good threshold for us because anyone who's played with this amount of haste knows we're starting to lose globals rapidly by opting out of using some fillers to be able to use our highest damage dealing abilities.

[Deleted]

Screw Sims. As I already pointed out earlier (in a slightly sarcastic way) these high haste amounts rarely work in practice. It's very hard to get use of so much haste and with such a clusterfuck rotation as we're having right now it's almost impossible to get any advantage from it in a raid environment. There's lag (MS/FPS), reaction times, using utility spells and maybe most importantly movement to take into consideration.

Ret isn't like Frost DK or Assassination Rogue, spamming 2 buttons to win. We actually have to make a lot of decisions on the go which makes optimizing our rotation far from easy. Aquiring haste above 15-16k rating makes this insanely hard to manage. With Crit/Mastery being so close in theory it's a very easy decision to stop stacking haste at this point. That's why people have made up the 40% number as a good threshold for us because anyone who's played with this amount of haste knows we're starting to lose globals rapidly by opting out of using some fillers to be able to use our highest damage dealing abilities.

How did you come to all these conclusions?

anyone who's played with this amount of haste knows we're starting to lose globals rapidly

Not me.

[Rathimis]

That's why people have made up the 40% number as a good threshold for us because anyone who's played with this amount of haste knows we're starting to lose globals rapidly by opting out of using some fillers to be able to use our highest damage dealing abilities.

Actually, it's because the sims show 40% as the inflection point where haste stops giving dps increases. So ya, screw the sims and screw reading half the thread