Police kill man after knocking on wrong door

[Deleted]

Wrongs on both sides. Police didn't identify themselves, the guy didn't check peephole/windows or ask who it was, and instead opened the door with his gun pointing out.

But it's America so I'm not surprised. People get shot by police for far less than that.

[highlandr]

So in this case you don't open the door, you sit on your couch and shoot when they bust through the door. You have every legal right to defend your property...

But opening the door while having a gun raised? That's a good way to get yourself killed no matter WHO is on the other side of the door (cop or robber).

This also depends on state. Where I live you can break into someones house and rob them. It you don't show intend to harm or have a weapon, they can't shoot you(legally).

[Rend Blackhand]

What about those shock tasers, can't the cops use those? Dangerous but less deadly than a gun...

If he was shot with a taser then all his muscles would contract, its what a taser does. If the guy was holding a gun and was tasered, chances are the gun would go off thus being a danger to both the police and the victim of tasering.

[Hitei]

Actually... even in such an odd case (though mine is something all of us would think in this situation), the owner is still right. I mean think about it, drugs are illegal(which makes you buying drugs illegal, but since you didn't pay, you'd only be charged with consuming, weird how law works, isn't it?), yes, but the dealer would be coming to kill you, so it's normal to get your gun for defense.

Since my point seems to have gone completely over your head...
The way you spelled out your hypothetical situation clearly biased the civilian as some innocent guy who had just woken up and was groggy and accidently waved his gun at the police. Which is stupid when you clearly have no idea how the situation actually went down. So I gave you an equally biased example of a hypothetical situation in which the civilian is actually a druggy who answers the door with his weapon pointed at police officers. In this way I hoped you might see how creating a biased context for a situation you know nothing about is stupid.

[warpath2k]

If he was shot with a taser then all his muscles would contract, its what a taser does. If the guy was holding a gun and was tasered, chances are the gun would go off thus being a danger to both the police and the victim of tasering.

Wasn't this idea proven wrong with the Raoul Moat case?

[cFortyfive]

Since my point seems to have gone completely over your head...
The way you spelled out your hypothetical situation clearly biased the civilian as some innocent guy who had just woken up and was groggy and accidently waved his gun at the police. Which is stupid when you clearly have no idea how the situation actually went down. So I gave you an equally biased example of a hypothetical situation in which the civilian is actually a druggy who answers the door with his weapon pointed at police officers. In this way I hoped you might see how creating a biased context for a situation you know nothing about is stupid.

I don't see to what extent that matters and why even a criminal shouldn't have the right to defend himself as well.

[Chrysia]

I don't see to what extent that matters and why even a criminal shouldn't have the right to defend himself as well.

Because he's a criminal, and thus his lawful arrest is the duty of the police, and they have the right to treat a criminal pointing a gun at them as hostile and defend their own lives?

[Socialhealer]

its just one of those unlucky situations really, police are human NOT PERFECT they are like everyone else with some training, and this training isnt perfect either it never will be.

the man took a gun because it was late and what police officer wouldnt shoot a man who they think could be a suspected attempted murderer when hes holding a gun.....its just wrong place wrong time no-ones fault.

[Hitei]

I don't see to what extent that matters and why even a criminal shouldn't have the right to defend himself as well.

You say "defend himself" as if the police officers broke down the door screaming and shooting.
They knocked/banged on the door and said/shouted open up without identifying themselves.

Only an idiot, regardless of being an innocent civilian or criminal, goes and opens the door with a gun visible in their hand and no clue as to who is on the other side.

[anveena]

Talk about some smart police, go knocking on someones door at 1:30 A.M. and not identifying yourself as the police...

[Dakara]

Just another example of what's wrong with America.

"People have a right to bare arms" and are paranoid enough to open a door with a gun.
Cops are constantly being shot at and it's better to shoot first ask questions later than it is to hesitate and get shot.

Don't get me wrong, the rest of the world's pretty fucked up aswell, but things like this are so common in America with all this "stand your ground" and "right to bare arms" etc in the constitution that I can't help but wonder why people react so much when the inevitable happens.

You may have the right to open the door pointing a gun, just as the cops have the right to shoot you in the face.

-edit-

This guy gets it:

Thank god for the british nanny state, the mere thought of answering your door with a gun pointed at people baffles me, the fact that people think its okay to open your door with a gun just shows the state of guns in america.

[draykorinee]

Thank god for the british nanny state, the mere thought of answering your door with a gun pointed at people baffles me, the fact that people think its okay to open your door with a gun just shows the state of guns in america.

[Deleted]

If someone bangs on my door at 1am I'd answer it with *something* but wouldn't expect police to go shooting me in the face for it either.

Well don't be surprised if you get killed.
Police aren't the only ones that'll blast you for pointing a gun in their faces.

[fizzbob]

I see your statistics and raise you a better one

you misunderstood the point of the statistics. typical.

[Chrysia]

Talk about some smart police, go knocking on someones door at 1:30 A.M. and not identifying yourself as the police...

Again, would you seriously expect any criminal to come to the door upon hearing "open up, it's the police?" Would you really? I don't, I'd expect he'd do a runner at this point. Even at 1:30 a.m. you don't open your door with a gun actively pointed at whoever is knocking.

[Rend Blackhand]

Wasn't this idea proven wrong with the Raoul Moat case?

I believe so.

[orderschvank]

Sticking a gun at a cop the guys a fucking genius

reading the whole post is usually useful dude.

IF you read it youd know that they did not identify themselves as officers, the man had every right to have an arms in his own home, provided he had a permit for the weapon.

the officers are in the wrong here for not identifying themselves, if i were that kids family id sue the crap out of the police.

[Verain]

How do you know he pointed the gun at the cops?

I'm betting we have exactly the cops word for that. Much more likely he brought a gun to the door because it's his damned house and someone was bothering him in the middle of the night, the cops caught wind of it, lit him up, and then lied about it, claiming he was "pointing it at them".

It's not like there wasn't just a thing where the cops shot a guy for pointing a gun at them, and then it turns out a bunch of witnesses say that never happened, and one of them taped it, but the cops confiscated the phone with the recording on it and won't show it to anyone.


Trigger happy murderous cops. Need better laws to observe the police.

[cFortyfive]

Again, would you seriously expect any criminal to come to the door upon hearing "open up, it's the police?" Would you really? I don't, I'd expect he'd do a runner at this point. Even at 1:30 a.m. you don't open your door with a gun actively pointed at whoever is knocking.

And one citizen that didn't die. And I'd certainly do if I'd live in the wrong place.

[Zoldor]

Bad news all around in the FL recently. Folks gotta start checking on who they are pointing guns at and who they are shooting. If that kids family presses charges those cops are looking at some trouble. Not having the right address is a huge violation, if they were using a valid arrest warrant it should of had the address on the warrant, same if they were executing a search warrant. That alone would have been enough to get the proper person off the hook, let alone accidently shooting an innocent person.

Second, they failed the simple knock and announce rule. Which is a huge grey area anyways, lots of discretion here, still but for the failure to knock and announce its pretty safe to assume a reasonable civilian would not have pointed a gun at the cops, knowing they were police officers. Even knowing a person is capable of destroying evidence or fleeing, cops are supposed to knock and announce even, if there is no time between the knock, announce, and kicking the door in, the rule is in place to protect the privacy and well being of people within in the home for instances exactly like this one.

Bad for the kid, and it looks to be bad bannanas for the cops as well unless they can disprove some serious evidence. Someone might loose a badge if this kids parents lawyer up. Still, this is all around some pretty bad police work. Yes, the kid shouldn't have pointed the gun and that part is actually closer to protocol for the cops to shoot the civilian, but still its pretty much 100% fault on their part and I would expect some civil liability and firings to follow.