[Ret] Judgment?

[Reith]

A lot of people posted in that thread it was on my skype and every where else let's just hope for the best DPS wise going forward. Zaeon had a post that definitely got good attention can't thank him enough for it!

I can say it's not looking bad for ret with DPS, at least.

[Requital]

I can say it's not looking bad for ret with DPS, at least.

Well I completely smoke people on beta in 5 mans but those mean nothing because in most cases they are lazy, awful or just don't care. I need legit competition to get a basis of how Ret is doing. Really wish one of my guilds were into beta raiding.

[fears]

I cant wait to see some numbers =)

[Vx-Odessa-xV]

<Salute> Just doin my part, fellow rets. ..Someone has to help Blizz make sense of things..even if its with a bat and two back to back 5000+ character posts of "how to fix our class and what we think is wrong, or isn't working right"

All an all, I appreciate the thanks, glad to see my voice played a role to see all our's were heard, even if it has only been SoB and Judgment so far that have seen change.

[Ryve]

Well I completely smoke people on beta in 5 mans but those mean nothing because in most cases they are lazy, awful or just don't care. I need legit competition to get a basis of how Ret is doing. Really wish one of my guilds were into beta raiding.

Yeah, to be fair, in 4.2 when ret was terrible, on weeks I wasn't raiding with my ret's guild due to my work (MS prot), I was always topping DPS in pugs - in spite of the fact that my ret couldn't even out DPS half of my far less geared alts. And if ret's burst is like it has been in the past, an instance boss wouldn't stay up long enough to give a fair comparison of sustained DPS.

[Erlend]

Did some normal mode raiding earlier this evening and have a log from Tsulong 25 to take a look at. Not gonna say it's representative of all the fights, but it's got a pretty solid burn phase where you mostly stand there aside from some minor movement, so for absolute dps should be ok. I can vouch for at least the top few spots being pretty solid raiders for class comparisons sake.

worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nqyv0c0jv0fgpjc0/sum/damageDone/?s=928&e=1472

Sorry, can't post actual links yet. :P

[Ryve]

Erlend's link: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nq.../?s=928&e=1472

Not really a great example, mind, given some people are doing barely over what you'd expect from an 85... And there's the 10k difference between one ret and the other. Likewise with the huge difference between the rogues.

[Simplistic]

it's back to melee.

[fears]

So it is, a good day for us

[Tangra]

So it is, a good day for us

Can't wait to see if it procs seals... since he said it is a melee attack with a 30 yard range, which technically it has actually never been... Judgement was actually a magical ranged attack for most of the past few years...I even remember it being bugged for a while in one of the last betas since it was using ranged attack power...

[Requital]

Can't wait to see if it procs seals... since he said it is a melee attack with a 30 yard range, which technically it has actually never been... Judgement was actually a magical ranged attack for most of the past few years...I even remember it being bugged for a while in one of the last betas since it was using ranged attack power...

Pretty sure it's been a melee attack through all of Cata well since they made it that way to address slow stacking on truth. I think it was a ranged attack in wotlk and early Cata if my memory serves me correct.

[Palatinus]

It won't proc seals. If your lucky it may proc censure but I doubt it, why?

Because judgement procing seals will reduce the necessity of BoG talent since you could just proc justice from it.

[Tangra]

It won't proc seals. If your lucky it may proc censure but I doubt it, why?

Because judgement procing seals will reduce the necessity of BoG talent since you could just proc justice from it.

True, but then again BoG will only be used in 2s, who would waste points on a ranged snare when your teammates will probably bring one... also, while having to stop and cast Repent will be a huge pain in the ass, ultimately nothing in that tier of talents compares to a CC on 15 sec cooldown. That entire tier needs reworking, and Repent just needs to go baseline since it blows the other two options out of the water...

[Sorshen]

it's back to melee.

Praise Cthulhu!

[Reith]

It won't proc seals. If your lucky it may proc censure but I doubt it, why?

Because judgement procing seals will reduce the necessity of BoG talent since you could just proc justice from it.

They could just make an exclusion for Seal of Justice, so your argument is moot.

[Requital]

True, but then again BoG will only be used in 2s, who would waste points on a ranged snare when your teammates will probably bring one... also, while having to stop and cast Repent will be a huge pain in the ass, ultimately nothing in that tier of talents compares to a CC on 15 sec cooldown. That entire tier needs reworking, and Repent just needs to go baseline since it blows the other two options out of the water...

BoG will be used outside of 2's, Repent is questionable imo it depends completely on what it DR's with and if any changes are made. Which we don't know that right now and I'm not really impressed with another magic stun but it's all w/e at this point.

[Holtzmann]

They could just make an exclusion for Seal of Justice, so your argument is moot.

Again, they're revamping everything in Cata to make things more consistent in terms of mechanics. Adding exceptions would be a shot in the foot, design-wise. Besides, it would completely invalidate Burden o Guilt if you could simply apply Seal of Justice with Judgment. It might not be too late to redesign BoG, but I wouldn't count on it.

[Veliane]

Judgment should proc Seals not just Justice and BoG should have the effects:
Burden of Guilt: Truth - Slows target by 50%.
Burden of Guilt: Righteousness - Slows target and it's closest two for 60%. (Halved effect on players)
Burden of Guilt: Insight - Interrupts casting for 1sec.
Burden of Guilt: Justice - Roots for 2 sec.

[Reith]

Again, they're revamping everything in Cata to make things more consistent in terms of mechanics. Adding exceptions would be a shot in the foot, design-wise. Besides, it would completely invalidate Burden o Guilt if you could simply apply Seal of Justice with Judgment. It might not be too late to redesign BoG, but I wouldn't count on it.

Except that if you look at live right now, Judgement is a melee attack, Seal of Justice procs off melee attacks, but doesn't proc off Judgement... so they're already doing it.

[Holtzmann]

Except that if you look at live right now, Judgement is a melee attack, Seal of Justice procs off melee attacks, but doesn't proc off Judgement... so they're already doing it.

Judgment on live is a mish-mash of mechanics layered on top of each other... In this sense, I hope it stays as it is on Live (although I think it would be more elegant to just keep it as a spell you could use while silenced, like Dispersion). Again, Judgment applying Seal of Justice would make Burden of Guilt completely redundant for Ret, and that's a Bad Thing (tm) in the current design philosophy.