Areanet designer asnwering questions as we speak!

[DrakeWurrum]

My main point is going in the direction that makes the world and the community more alive. Yes that might end up being "spam chat", but it has a more .... "lively" effect on the world than a system that does it for you that could possibly cut that feeling of making the world alive in a negative way.

So why risk it to make things easier? Convenience isn't always a good thing.

"more lively" sounds like just another way of saying "immersion breaking" to me, in that it's a really silly argument. It just translates to random chat spam - "LFG2M AC, NO MORE THIEVES PLOX" doesn't really build community.
There's no point to that system. We experienced it in TBC, and it wasn't better than an automated tool. The only reason people hate an automated tool so much is because of all the inherent flaws that already exist in WoW's combat and loot system. As I said above:

1. No tanks
2. No healers
(the above means: no long queues, ever, unless there just aren't people queueing)
3. No shared loot (thus no drama over ninjas)

And hell, I'll add another
4. You can travel to other servers for free

[jayeffkay]

Won't matter, group votes through a text option, and only the winning way is opened.

Even with a voting system, people will still be pissed, complain, rage, leave, ninja pull, act like a tool if they don't get their way.

[DrakeWurrum]

Even with a voting system, people will still be pissed, complain, rage, leave, ninja pull, act like a tool if they don't get their way.

So? Nothing is stopping this from happening with the current LFG system.

If somebody complains, ignore them. If somebody rages, ignore them. If they leave, replace them, because they weren't a tank or healer, and never will be. If they ninja pull, big whoop, let them die on their own.


I get why you guys are afraid of an automated tool, but you're looking at it from the perspective of playing WoW, which comes with a lot of inherent flaws and biases.

And before you go "But what if somebody is a tool and won't X, Y, or Z to succeed?"
Again, how did the current LFG system in GW2 prevent that player from ending up in your group? With every possible argument, you need to ask yourself that. How does the current LFG system prevent what you're afraid of?
INB4 ignore lists: an automated tool could take consideration of player's ignore lists. Blizz needs to add an LFG black list to the automated tool, that has global ramifications in making the tool less likely to pick that person.

[zito]

An LFG chat channel similar to a trade chat would be useful. The current LFG tool is buried as a tab in the friends list, iirc. I don't feel the way LFG works in GW2 now is visible enough. Though it's hard to predict which MMO communities take to BB style LFG.

I had NO IDEA we had a LFG tab on the friend list.

D:

[DrakeWurrum]

I had NO IDEA we had a LFG tab on the friend list.

D:

O_o

What did you think I meant by the word "list" >_>?

When you mark yourself as LFG, you show up on a big list in that tab. I'm assuming it's people from the server you're currently on.

[zito]

I get why you guys are afraid of an automated tool, but you're looking at it from the perspective of playing WoW, which comes with a lot of inherent flaws and biases.

If the LFG finder tool was restricted by zone. I would be fine with it, so in order to que for catacombs you have to be in the zone the dungeon is located.

---------- Post added 2012-07-27 at 01:30 AM ----------

O_o

What did you think I meant by the word "list" >_>?

When you mark yourself as LFG, you show up on a big list in that tab. I'm assuming it's people from the server you're currently on.

I thought you were stupid or something

[DrakeWurrum]

If the LFG finder tool was restricted by zone. I would be fine with it, so in order to que for catacombs you have to be in the zone the dungeon is located.

I just don't even see why you're worried people would just sit around in the city and chat in some kind of trade chat.

If that's going to happen, an automated tool wouldn't be the cause of it - it would be people not wanting to go out into the world. If people have no desire to go out and do DEs of any kind, what will they do? They'll sit in the city, and go "LFG <insert dungeons here>" in public chat.
Or perhaps they'll go to the zone, and afk in an outpost, and not do shit.

How is idling in an outpost different from idling in Black Citadel?

What you're worried will happen should only happen if Arena Net fails to make exploring the world interesting enough. That's when people idle in cities.

[zito]

How is idling in an outpost different from idling in Black Citadel?

Because dynamic events happen at outposts. It brings people into the zone so the possibility of abandoned zones is lessen. Letting you que in black citadel would just get people into the previous mind set of past LFG tools which is sit and do nothing because dungeons is the only thing that matters. At least if its restricted by zone if a dynamic event happens it will tempt you.

[DrakeWurrum]

Because dynamic events happen at outposts. It brings people into the zone so the possibility of abandoned zones is lessen. Letting you que in black citadel would just get people into the previous mind set of past LFG tools which is sit and do nothing because dungeons is the only thing that matters. At least if its restricted by zone if a dynamic event happens it will tempt you.

I can think of plenty of areas in Ashford Plains where I can safely idle. Besides, if something came right at me in an outpost, fine, I'll participate just to get it out of my way, but I'll be bitching about it in /map the entire time because I didn't want to do it.

Besides, the current system is already more open than that. If it's restricted to zone, there'll be less people doing dungeons overall, because it will make it hard to queue for the ones you want.

[jayeffkay]

So? Nothing is stopping this from happening with the current LFG system.

If somebody complains, ignore them. If somebody rages, ignore them. If they leave, replace them, because they weren't a tank or healer, and never will be. If they ninja pull, big whoop, let them die on their own.


I get why you guys are afraid of an automated tool, but you're looking at it from the perspective of playing WoW, which comes with a lot of inherent flaws and biases.

And before you go "But what if somebody is a tool and won't X, Y, or Z to succeed?"
Again, how did the current LFG system in GW2 prevent that player from ending up in your group? With every possible argument, you need to ask yourself that. How does the current LFG system prevent what you're afraid of?
INB4 ignore lists: an automated tool could take consideration of player's ignore lists. Blizz needs to add an LFG black list to the automated tool, that has global ramifications in making the tool less likely to pick that person.

Ya I can relate to what you're saying, let them leave, ignore them and/or deal with it.

What about griefers? Sure you can report them but I've seriously been in groups where said person says I'm not going to do anything, I'm just going to stand here and watch you guys wipe and they'll /dance in mid combat and run around just watching the group wipe. Because the only remedy I can think of for that will be a kick option and I don't really want to get into that. Ya you can leave but what if you're near the last boss when they decide to do it? I know its a whacked scenario but I've seen it multiple times in my time playing.

[Fencers]

If the LFG finder tool was restricted by zone. I would be fine with it, so in order to que for catacombs you have to be in the zone the dungeon is located.

That's not really how it works. It's just a bulletin board style LFG. In all betas it was server wide.

I used it a few times. The problem was visibility. Only 2 other people [besides me] were on the list. One guy went on a full run with us [nice enough guy], the other fellow went on a partial run some time later [also a decent guy].

[JayJay09]

If stuff like hunger royale make it into the game, I hope they will be seperated like Spvp. I don't wanna see sunglass wearing toons running around in an medieval fantasy world. That would kill immersion. Seperated for those who like it and it'd be all good with me.

[Valeron]

That's not really how it works. It's just a bulletin board style LFG. In all betas it was server wide.

I used it a few times. The problem was visibility. Only 2 other people [besides me] were on the list. One guy went on a full run with us [nice enough guy], the other fellow went on a partial run some time later [also a decent guy].

I think that is an excellent point. If no one knows its there, they won't use it. I actually prefer a bulletin board LFG tool but it isn't visible at all.

[Loaf Lord]

If stuff like hunger royale make it into the game, I hope they will be seperated like Spvp. I don't wanna see sunglass wearing toons running around in an medieval fantasy world. That would kill immersion. Seperated for those who like it and it'd be all good with me.

GW2 isn't medieval fantasy. It has some medieval elements, sure, but it's more than just that. I don't see how someone could be okay with rodent people making giant robot golems, but sunglasses draw the line.

[jayeffkay]

but sunglasses draw the line.

Even ingame I wear my sunglasses at night.

[Fencers]

Well Anet do sell sunglasses and costumes in the cash shop anyway. It was also very popular in Guild Wars 1.

Nothing Anet can do to stop Jynxy the Brilliant Asuran Genius of Rata Sum from RPing in his aviator sunglasses, top hat and cook's outfit in front of Ascalon Catacombs.

I'd say "deal with it" but don't want to be infracted for meme posting.

[CrunkJuice5]

"more lively" sounds like just another way of saying "immersion breaking" to me, in that it's a really silly argument. It just translates to random chat spam - "LFG2M AC, NO MORE THIEVES PLOX" doesn't really build community.
There's no point to that system. We experienced it in TBC, and it wasn't better than an automated tool. The only reason people hate an automated tool so much is because of all the inherent flaws that already exist in WoW's combat and loot system. As I said above:

1. No tanks
2. No healers
(the above means: no long queues, ever, unless there just aren't people queueing)
3. No shared loot (thus no drama over ninjas)

And hell, I'll add another
4. You can travel to other servers for free

wow's loot system was fine from the years i played it.its just,its community pretty much only cared about the loot,truth be told.the majority of the whiney kids that make up the wow community wouldnt do the content if gear didnt drop

oh and id say the reason why the wow community hates lfg systems is because they have this illusion that every community in mmos is as terrible as world of warcrafts and they think the lfg system will just end up like it.but in reality,some mmos actually have better communitys

[DrakeWurrum]

wow's loot system was fine from the years i played it.

I'm referring to the fact that everybody has to grab the same loot window. In GW2, when you loot a boss, the loot you see in the window is yours, period. Everybody gets something from the boss, and you don't have to "roll" on who gets what.

---------- Post added 2012-07-26 at 09:29 PM ----------

What about griefers? Sure you can report them but I've seriously been in groups where said person says I'm not going to do anything, I'm just going to stand here and watch you guys wipe and they'll /dance in mid combat and run around just watching the group wipe. Because the only remedy I can think of for that will be a kick option and I don't really want to get into that. Ya you can leave but what if you're near the last boss when they decide to do it? I know its a whacked scenario but I've seen it multiple times in my time playing.

Griefing ain't going to be prevented by a bulletin board style of LFG. It's actually pretty hard to grief in this game. Frankly, if they want to pull a boss fight to try and "wipe" the group, let them. I'll just run away and let them die.


What I'm not seeing from EVERYBODY hating on the automated LFD tool is the following: How does the bulletin board LFG tool that GW2 currently employs prevent any of your concerns, in the scope of GW2, with the knowledge that there are no dedicated roles and no shared loot? With the knowledge that if people really just plan to idle while waiting on a queue (why are they waiting? THERE'S NO FUCKING TANKS!), that will be inspired by not being interested in DEs out in the world, as opposed to what tool we have.
While on the flip side of the coin, we get the benefit of not having to manually put the group together. i.e. an automated tool would entirely be about convenience. If you're really that afraid of "anonymous" people doing shit without having any consequences from other servers, which is ridiculous thanks to guesting, then what would the harm be in it being restricted to the server you're currently on? (Logic: what's to stop people from guesting to your populated server and ticking that they're LFG?)

[jayeffkay]

I'm referring to the fact that everybody has to grab the same loot window. In GW2, when you loot a boss, the loot you see in the window is yours, period. Everybody gets something from the boss, and you don't have to "roll" on who gets what.

---------- Post added 2012-07-26 at 09:29 PM ----------


Griefing ain't going to be prevented by a bulletin board style of LFG. It's actually pretty hard to grief in this game. Frankly, if they want to pull a boss fight to try and "wipe" the group, let them. I'll just run away and let them die.


What I'm not seeing from EVERYBODY hating on the automated LFD tool is the following: How does the bulletin board LFG tool that GW2 currently employs prevent any of your concerns, in the scope of GW2, with the knowledge that there are no dedicated roles and no shared loot?

I understand the differences between this game and WOW (hence why I'm really interested in it) and the issues that don't retain to GW2 in this aspect, but I'm still curious of a few things.

Is there a group leader that is in charge of the party? Does this person do the removing/inviting of people? Or is there a kick option? If someone is in charge; how do they get to that position of power? Is it a leader volunteer button in the LFG tool?

Is there some method of adding players to a LFD tool personal blacklisting, through like your ignore list or something along those lines?

Are these explorable dungeons going to be nerfed to cater to random groups that refuse to work together and communicate? Whereas guild groups are loving the challenge brought and are enjoying these 5mans as they are. I'm not pining for the days of heroic slabs, and shattered halls difficulty. But I haven't been a part of a challenging 5man in a long time and they were such an awesome pass time. I just don't want to see that aspect of the game no longer interest me. If it does I still got PVP for a challenge, but I'd be disappointed nonetheless.

But on a side note if they were that hard, I'd be up for the challenge.

[JayJay09]

GW2 isn't medieval fantasy. It has some medieval elements, sure, but it's more than just that. I don't see how someone could be okay with rodent people making giant robot golems, but sunglasses draw the line.

Well, that's what makes those games ridiculous. That's what happened to WoW. After all that gimmick nonsense the game lost its epicness. I can live with a robot built by the Azura that has the point of defending them rather than sunglasses that definitely not fit in there and fulfill no role. They just don't belong there. Okay, it's a fantasy (magic and stuff) game with medieval and industrial elements. Anyway.. Sunglasses draw the line. And if you, like the other guy, like wearing them while playing and at night, go ahead. But I don't wanna see them in the game except maybe completely seperated from the rest of the world. No choppers, no sunglasses, no nothing like that in the actual game please.