[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[rhandric]

I think its based on specs and not classes (ie pure dos only need 1)

I think you mean roles there, but even then, it's not cut and dry, as different dps specs of the same class will prioritize stats differently (and therefore gem/reforge)...
Wowhead has them at 42%/42%/31% for vanq/prot/conq (just went off chest for 10N, assuming same for all pieces).

Vanq covers mage/dk/rogue/druid, for 4 classes, or 1+2+1+4=8 roles (13 specs)
Prot covers warrior/hunter/shaman/monk, for 4 classes, or 2+1+3+3=9 roles (12 specs)
Conq covers pally/priest/warlock, for 3 classes, or 3+2+1=6 roles. (9 specs)

Since the distribution is even for vanq and prot, and differing for conq, and yet the roles all vary: it's class based, not role (or even spec, or vanq would have higher than prot, since druids have a 4th spec).

[MerinPally]

Prot covers warrior/hunter/shaman/monk, for 4 classes, or 3+1+3+3=10 roles

Just a minor point, but arms and fury use the same tier items so it's 2+1+3+3 = 9 rather than 10. Doesn't make your point any different thought, just something I noticed

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Wow, that IS lucky. Now you get to just leave your tick-box on Ret!

Might swap it to holy for the Tortos shield. Undecided yet. I'll do it for now just so that I own one, but as to whether I want to or can actually use it will depend on how I can get my other stats looking.

[rhandric]

Just a minor point, but arms and fury use the same tier items so it's 2+1+3+3 = 9 rather than 10. Doesn't make your point any different thought, just something I noticed

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Might swap it to holy for the Tortos shield. Undecided yet. I'll do it for now just so that I own one, but as to whether I want to or can actually use it will depend on how I can get my other stats looking.

Good point, and that just further strengthens the point Updated

[Nairobi]

Good point, and that just further strengthens the point Updated

Hmm..playing devil's advocate, that makes it look role-based, actually.

Using the Wowhead values of 42%/42%/31% for vanq/prot/conq we see a total of 115%, so clearly that's a bit off :P However, we can assume that it's roughly a 4:4:3 distribution (with the extra 15% coming from coin rolls). This means we should see about equal amounts of Vanq and Prot, with ~25% less Conq. This would be ~36%/36%/28%.

Total roles = 23
Vanq covers 8 roles; 34%
Prot covers 9 roles; 39%
Conq covers 6 roles; 26%

That's pretty close to the Wowhead distribution if we factor in roles (not classes). /tinfoilhat

[rhandric]

Hmm..playing devil's advocate, that makes it look role-based, actually.

Using the Wowhead values of 42%/42%/31% for vanq/prot/conq we see a total of 115%, so clearly that's a bit off :P However, we can assume that it's roughly a 4:4:3 distribution (with the extra 15% coming from coin rolls). This means we should see about equal amounts of Vanq and Prot, with ~25% less Conq. This would be ~36%/36%/28%.

Total roles = 23
Vanq covers 8 roles; 34%
Prot covers 9 roles; 39%
Conq covers 6 roles; 26%

That's pretty close to the Wowhead distribution if we factor in roles (not classes). /tinfoilhat

Well, let's start throwing in other pieces, to see where that evidence leads us.
Vanq/prot/conq (%, from wowhead) (Samples)
Chest: 42/42/31 (2278)
Gloves: 39/38/30 (7450)
Helm: 37/39/30 (3665)
Leggings: 32/31/24 (4355)
Shoulders: 34/35/27 (4045)

So, there's no perfect trend across all tokens (and, for the argument, let's assume that only token type (vanq/prot/conq) determines drop rate, not slot, and attribute differences across slots to margins of error). However, what we are seeing is that vanq and prot are generally equal, while conq is always ~25% less. Indicating the number of classes per token, and not specs, is the likely distribution factor.

Bear in mind that % is based off #items / #kills, not #items / #(sum of competing items). So, values > 100 will come from coins, which can affect the statistics to some degree, but chances are that those added amounts will be relatively equally distributed across all classes, and thus have a similar impact on the %.

[Nairobi]

I suppose. The issue we're seeing with such small sample sizes is that the spec distribution of 9/8/6 is VERY close to the class distribution of 4/4/3.

Probably too close to call either way, without looking at samples with a lot more size to them!

What we can all agree on, is that Conq gets owned

[rhandric]

I suppose. The issue we're seeing with such small sample sizes is that the spec distribution of 9/8/6 is VERY close to the class distribution of 4/4/3.

Probably too close to call either way, without looking at samples with a lot more size to them!

What we can all agree on, is that Conq gets owned

Absolutely.

[MerinPally]

Those sample sizes of several thousand are more than big enough, the problem comes from coin rolls tossing a spanner into the works due to raids themselves, not having a perfect token split. Especially seeing as 4:4:3 adds up to 11. Also, each token having a different number of results is a bit of an issue. They wouldn't have to be exact but gloves being about 3.5 times that of chest, will skew numbers ever so slightly.

They're close enough though that if you did some statistical maths on those numbers, you'd probably hit an answer that is about the same for what both of you are proposing because the difference is slight. Besides, the system being an algorithm itself is never going to be entirely random and only as close as said algorithm allows. Due to that and then the raid issue, if you could be bothered I reckon you could prove it to be about right/the same. However, I really hope noone cares that much about it and if so, I deeply worry for you

[rhandric]

Well, Merin, while I love working with numbers, I hate statistical analysis, and don't care enough about this to look that closely at it, just gathering the data and making a first degree approximation was sufficient for my purposes.

[Promdates]

What we can all agree on, is that Conq gets owned

We've only seen 1-2 pairs of Conq gloves, but we have people who have offspec pants and shoulders for possible 3rd specs now (or for regemming different specs)

[MerinPally]

My luck gets even better, I got the gloves from Primordius.

Problem that happens now is my expertise plummets as I don't have the VP trinket and probably don't plan to get it or the Durumu legs. If I wear the gloves I can wear my Ji'kuns but have to reforge to expertise on it rather than haste. Still a haste upgrade (just) but I reckon the strength proc makes it awesome. My hit is up to like 10.5% and fuck all I can do about it, expertise is down to 11.5% as well but meh if I'm only doing LFR and 5mans it won't matter. Soon as I get the Jin'rohk belt, my hit issues will mostly vanish. I just seem to be at a really awkward and horrible gear crossroads where I need to upgrade all my gear at once rather than bits like I get the oppurtunity too, otherwise my hit/exp is gona be thrown way out of whack unless I want to lose haste

[Promdates]

Don't worry. Until I get Ra-den gear, I'm stuck being over 8% hit. It's terrible, but whatever.

[MerinPally]

Well if I go spend money and stuff and get crafted boots, I can get that to 12.5% exp and lose a bit of hit, maybe down to 9.5%. Will also gain some haste which is nice. And ilvl, which is irrelevent but pugs seem to care.

[Sunnydee]

Im having a hard time to find good tank vid guide for twins HC, durumu HC and council HC. fatboss has done council afaik but dosnt really show how to do it proper as tank. any advice anyone who has recorded it and feel like sharing ?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Council: is exactly the same as on non-heroic.
Durumu: not tanked yet
Twins: P1 make sure you are away from the melee when you have nightmare beast. Grab the adds when they spawn and kill them. You'll need a bit of practice holding the boss the right distance away from the comet. Cooldown for the second stack of the fire damage debuff. Don't let yourself be hit by the charge.

[Deleted]

Im having a hard time to find good tank vid guide for twins HC, durumu HC and council HC. fatboss has done council afaik but dosnt really show how to do it proper as tank. any advice anyone who has recorded it and feel like sharing ?

Council: I always take Malak + Sul. Monk OT takes Malak when I'm on 8+ stacks and I taunt him back on reset. Monk keeps Marli the entire fight on him. I always focus on Sul and interrupt whenever possible. Always pop DP when Frigid Assault begins. I use GoAK when Frigid Assault comes up during Kazrajin's Empower phase.

Durumu: I solo-tank this. Use UbS and reset with DS at 6~7 stacks. Nothing new apart from extra damage from normal mode.

Twins: Take unglyphed DP. I solo-tank Lu'lin, I warn healers when beast is up so they stop healing me (I also have a macro to /cancelaura Renewing Mist so our Monk healer doesn't get debuff stacks). I pop GoAK on first beast, DP + Niuzao (celestial) on second and DP + HA on third. During this phase our monk is kiting Suen around the room (when she appears) to reveal the adds. DPS never damage them, I alone kill the adds with my AoE. Suen is just like normal, taunt at 2 stacks. Try having DP up for the second stack, specially if she's on high stacks for some reason. Third phase we kill Suen first, I take Lulin and all I do is take her to a corner of the room when she casts Tidal Force so less people get hit by it (next to one of the pillars is great, she barely has any angles that can hit the raid). When Suen dies I just tank Lulin like in the first phase. Oh, and when taking Suen to the comets don't stand to close to them or you might destroy them by mistake (5+ yards always, 'cept for Infernos).

Also, general tip for Twins: If your meteor bugs out and you miss one it's better to melt it to burn her stacks than go into the shadow with high stacks during inferno.


EDIT: And oh, always leave the shadow ~1 sec before it ends so she doesn't charge the entire raid.

[Deleted]

I've sent you a PM with my clear from wednesday - just went back to prot last week so by no means perfect play and I'm learning the fights as well but should give you a rough idea of one way of doing it. I think we had a wipe on horridon and consorts and a few on durumu otherwise rather smooth raid.

[Promdates]

Im having a hard time to find good tank vid guide for twins HC, durumu HC and council HC. fatboss has done council afaik but dosnt really show how to do it proper as tank. any advice anyone who has recorded it and feel like sharing ?

I sent you a PM regarding this.

[Deleted]

Just realised that come 5.4 it may be worth considering changing shield enchant to parry with the GC change.

[Sunnydee]

Inbox literally got spammed haha. thanks all think ive found some good info/vids of these fights on heroic mode now