[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[Nillo]

Idk about DP glyph since p2/3 have plenty of magic damage.
And yeah the tank cloak might actually be a good idea here.

[Riemu2k3]

Yeah it has alot of magic damage in p2/3 but I did go over my logs and the reasons I died were exclusively physical. The Dot shouldn't tick higher as 50-70k anyway and the other stuff is easily healed through by our EF (as there is no physical damage intake at that time). Physical damage is just insane on this fight.

@ Wanko: I would not bother with adds tbh. They should be dead when then next 6-pack spawns. Or else you're doing something wrong I guess? Only time we had more than 6 Adds for a brief moment was at the end of P1 where we just opted to tunnel the boss to avoid the next spawn.

Just have your OT taunt AFTER he has aggro on all the little Adds on each wave for a few seconds and then again when the wave is dead. It aligns perfectly (at least it did for us). At some point, you need to taunt the Darkseer Shaman cause he has taunt cd from taunting the boss but thats not a problem.

(only reason you should be doing adds is if your co-tank is a DK :-) - and if he's a DK, you should be taking EVERY add because you can block (and cheese AS) and he can't)

(at least for me that is - cause I couldn't hold aggro against a monk or warri tank when they 250k vengeance tank the boss and cleave the hell out of the adds, so we opted to not letting me tank any adds in the first place)

[Deleted]

Just a stupid question ,.. but what is it with all the haste stacking. I play A prot Pally for some time and always went for the mastery build. My whole playstyle is based upon using it. I will never see the HC raids on the right level, I am not a top raider. Though why should I have to go to a haste build that would cost me a lot to change the play-style and according to healers I am now easy to heal. So why change it.

For those that want to see the build and gear : eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/Vylandra/advanced

[Riemu2k3]

Just a stupid question ,.. but what is it with all the haste stacking. I play A prot Pally for some time and always went for the mastery build. My whole playstyle is based upon using it. I will never see the HC raids on the right level, I am not a top raider. Though why should I have to go to a haste build that would cost me a lot to change the play-style and according to healers I am now easy to heal. So why change it.

For those that want to see the build and gear : eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/Vylandra/advanced

Because you would be even more "easy to heal" then. (Damn that sentence sounds wrong)


Benefit of Mastery:

- Increased Block
- Higher SoTR % Reduce
- Higher WoG/EF Healing due to BoG Stacks


Benefit of Haste:

- More DPS (which matters!)
- Lower GCD (that means you can use more abilities in the same timeframe)
- Lower Ability CD (that means you can use even more abilities)
- Higher SoTR Uptime because you can use more abilities and therefore generate more Holypower
- Faster Eternal Flame / Sacred Shield Ticks (Which means you heal yourself for more)
- Faster Seal of Insight ticks (Which means you heal yourself for more)
- Something else I might have forgotten


In short, your can mitigate more physical damage with SoTR if you use haste rather than mastery, because you will have a much higher uptime on it. I don't have any numbers, but i would guess that if you're haste capped (50% Haste) you will have 20%+ more SoTR uptime in the whole fight.

And you will heal yourself for way more than you currently due which means your healers need to heal you less

And you will do more DPS that in turn helps your raid

Your can actually compensate better for magic damage (mastery does almost nothing for your magic damage mitigation besides BoG), because haste increases 3 of your self-healing abilities (SoI / SS / EF Ticks)

[Deleted]

Now that is an answer I can work with, though it means some hours hitting that training pole to get it right . The only thing I do not agree with is higher DPS. (Glad they fixed vengeance gaining while standing in stuff on the ground and so.) DPS should do the DPS. Tanks should concentrate on managing Bosses and their abilities , though that is my pov.

Lets see if I can manage the haste build as the arguments are in favor for it.

Thanks for you reply

[Deleted]

Not a prot, and not a tank, but interested in this nonetheless - how amenable is SoO to paladin solo-tanking? After ToT, where a good prot pally was able to solo everything except Primordius? I'm particularily interested in Malkorok and all the fights that follow. Surely Spoils are out of the question, but how's Malk/Thok/Siegecrafter? Do you see any of these as possible to solo, assuming a full-hc t15 + some t16 geared paladin and exceptional healers?

[Aceshigh]

Got the Dodge/Parry helm, Dodge/Parry ring, Hit/mastery belt and the crit/haste hands. Kinda sad that none of them are really worth anything to me. Might upgrade the ring and put a haste gem in it and swap it for the jinrohk ring though. Didn't really test to see if that would be a gain. Anyone know off the top of their head (so I can be REALLY lazy haha)


Forgot link but figured it out in the meantime.

[Riemu2k3]

@ Vylandra

DPS is very much a thing tanks need to worry about. Of course, you need to survive and you need to do you tanking duties. But once you have that covered, you need to work on the DPS.

Here is one of my Garrosh NHC Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=10577&e=11237

Both Tanks are #1 and #2 in DPS/Damage Done and it's really needed. If both of our tanks wouldn't care about DPS at all and would have let's say 1/2 of the damage done instead, you would need 1!!! more DPS players to compensate.

And not needing that one DPS (because lets face it, you cant play with 11 players) makes fights alot easier to deal with. And that's what matters.


@ Rurts

Siegecrafter is not possible because Adds will heal if they get near the Boss

Thok is not possible because he hits like a truck and the debuff really hurts. I don't see that being solo tanked anytime soon (though I could be wrong)

Malkorok is really not advisable because you take ALOT of damage from the debuff/mechanic and you cant be healed up. So you will most likely die.

---

I don't think there are ANY fights that can be one-tanked (with prot pally). Maybe there are 1-2 with creative use of game mechanics or just brutally outgearing it, but that's about it.

EDIT: Yes, Immerseus


@ Aceshigh

Without a link to your armory and the items you have received, noone can tell you anything...

[Deleted]

Not a prot, and not a tank, but interested in this nonetheless - how amenable is SoO to paladin solo-tanking? After ToT, where a good prot pally was able to solo everything except Primordius? I'm particularily interested in Malkorok and all the fights that follow. Surely Spoils are out of the question, but how's Malk/Thok/Siegecrafter? Do you see any of these as possible to solo, assuming a full-hc t15 + some t16 geared paladin and exceptional healers?

Immersus is solo tankable (and should be solo tanked imo, second tank does nothing)
Protectors can be solo tanked but a bit sketchy
Same goes for Norushen as you cant get purified
Galakras can be solo tanked quite easily
Hmm, iron juggernaut could maybe be possible but would be really hard. I do not see why you would do it though, having two tanks is nice for mines
Malkorok can probably be solo tanked but requires a lot of gear from both you and the healers. Nothing I would do during progression
Thok can be solo tanked

I am sure that in time and gear you will be able to solo tank more bosses.

[Deleted]

at: Riemu2k3

You got a point there and it seems Blizzard is pushing us that way as well, though would you go for tanking gear and reforging or the Dps gear for tanking. which means the whole tanking gear for prot pallies is useless.

[Riemu2k3]

Have you solo tanked thok / galakras FF?

Thok i can probably get behind it even though i still think Its too brutal

But How on earth is galakras being solo tanked?

- - - Updated - - -

@vyl. Go dps gear. Everything with haste on it is tank gear

[xebtria]

has anyone tried out askmrrobot since 5.4?

when I try it with my character...
I remember the hastecap being at 50% is something like 21750 or so (not sure about the exact number, but I am pretty sure it was 2xxxx), robot suggests to go for 40% (although I always wondered whether the 10% from SoI is already accounted for that in the character sheet or not), which obviously is 16999. robot rates windsong as enchant higher than dancing steel. he does not go pure haste gems, but goes for socket bonuses instead. with going with him, I end up with ~1,7k less haste, more expertise (hard cap once again) a bit more mastery/str/stam (because gems), and therefore a bit more parry and roughly 12k more health.

now the question is: trust askmrrobot or continue the way of gearing I did so far?

[Deleted]

Have you solo tanked thok / galakras FF?

Thok i can probably get behind it even though i still think Its too brutal

But How on earth is galakras being solo tanked?

@vyl. Go dps gear. Everything with haste on it is tank gear

No, we did not bother using 1 tank on any fight. We "1 tanked" Galakras in the sense that the other tank died but we had no problem completing the tower with a plate dps 'tanking'. So while we did not actually use 1 tank intentionally for progression, I can see that it probably is not that hard. Even easier if you have a cat or boomkin that can pop HotW for tanking the tower.

Really if you think about it, the tower tank is not really doing much "tanking".

[Riemu2k3]

I only take the socket bonus if it has haste on it. I ignore everything else and gem full haste. Not sure it's the ideal way to go about stuff, but it's my favorite way.

Also, Cap is still 50% - nothing has changed. So you need 2xxxx Haste (21750 sounds about right) to reach it.

You need to adjust the stat weight on AMR if you wanna have accurate values. The default stuff is not good.

- - - Updated - - -

No, we did not bother using 1 tank on any fight. We "1 tanked" Galakras in the sense that the other tank died but we had no problem completing the tower with a plate dps 'tanking'. So while we did not actually use 1 tank intentionally for progression, I can see that it probably is not that hard. Even easier if you have a cat or boomkin that can pop HotW for tanking the tower.

Really if you think about it, the tower tank is not really doing much "tanking".

Tower tank takes lots of damage though, especially in the "right" tower. I remember on PTR that I was instagibbed when I reached the top without CD. You're right, you can solo tank the trash (not sure that's advisable because of the 1/n stuff !? but you're the math guy) and you might even be able to survive the tower with a plate dps once you're on it, but doing 2x towers without a proper tank seems way more trouble than it's worth.

[Deleted]

Tower tank takes lots of damage though, especially in the "right" tower. I remember on PTR that I was instagibbed when I reached the top without CD. You're right, you can solo tank the trash (not sure that's advisable because of the 1/n stuff !? but you're the math guy) and you might even be able to survive the tower with a plate dps once you're on it, but doing 2x towers without a proper tank seems way more trouble than it's worth.

The 1/n formula has the side effect though that exchanging a tank for a dps is often worth it on fights like that, since that tank will have extremely low vengeance either way.

I am by no way saying that everyone should solo Galakras, I am 99% my guild wont do it unless we are missing a tank. The previous poster simply asked if it was possible, and it is. It may be more trouble than it is worth, but that kinda depends on your raid group. A lot of dps classes got some solid CDs that make them short term tanks. The second tower as you say is the only "issue", but it is still manageable. Only having 1 tank is quite a benefit for the dps in the last phase though.

If you have two tanks I strogly advise you to go two tanks for Galakras, but maybe on of your tanks did not show up or whatever, in that case solo tanking him is quite feasable even during progression.


21250 is haste cap btw.

[Deleted]

Im going to start tanking in this patch, completely new, havent tanked since my normal Mop runs while leveling.

Been trying some pvp...but with the recent gear and resilience debacle I just can' be bothered to be chain Cc'ed and kited into oblivion.

So its best for me to take my level 496 Isle gear and set my loot specialisation to retribution if I want gear to start tanking?
And reforge excess hit and expertise into haste?
For weapon and shield, Ive gotten the required 7250 honor so I suppose the Tyranical stuff is sufficiant for the first wing of Soo LFR?

[Deleted]

(only reason you should be doing adds is if your co-tank is a DK :-) - and if he's a DK, you should be taking EVERY add because you can block (and cheese AS) and he can't)

It is a DK, but... spamming Blood Boil does wonders to threat meters! /sarcasm
Currently I'm on the boss, as I'm a little bit more... subtle. And I wait till he has aggro on the adds. -__- Although it is hard not to over aggro everything with such Veng difference.

[Riemu2k3]

Im going to start tanking in this patch, completely new, havent tanked since my normal Mop runs while leveling.

Been trying some pvp...but with the recent gear and resilience debacle I just can' be bothered to be chain Cc'ed and kited into oblivion.

So its best for me to take my level 496 Isle gear and set my loot specialisation to retribution if I want gear to start tanking?
And reforge excess hit and expertise into haste?
For weapon and shield, Ive gotten the required 7250 honor so I suppose the Tyranical stuff is sufficiant for the first wing of Soo LFR?

On PTR, were gear was scaled down to 496 for everyone, it was totally fine to tank SoO LFR. So I think you should have no problem with 496 Isle Gear and Tyranical Stuff. Remember, most of the guys in there will have like 510-520 itemlevel and not only 496 so it's even easier on LIVE than it was on PTR (PTR was quite overtuned on purpose).

And yes, setting your gear to retribution is the way to go (but don't forget to switch it back if you need the tank trinkets/weapon/shield).

[Deleted]

On PTR, were gear was scaled down to 496 for everyone, it was totally fine to tank SoO LFR. So I think you should have no problem with 496 Isle Gear and Tyranical Stuff. Remember, most of the guys in there will have like 510-520 itemlevel and not only 496 so it's even easier on LIVE than it was on PTR (PTR was quite overtuned on purpose).

And yes, setting your gear to retribution is the way to go (but don't forget to switch it back if you need the tank trinkets/weapon/shield).

Thanks! Still have some Justice and Valor just sitting in my currency screen so I will also use these.
To bad that I send an armor cache to my DK alt and some 502 socketed leggings popped out, could have helped a little ^^.
But Im going to practice in some MoP Heroics, just to get a bit of experience before the plunge.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the responses. Indeed, we have two tanks and usually we use them, but today, just by chance, both our 2nd tank and his possible substitution have to take a day off due to rl issues. So we're looking at two possibilities: trying to solo tank, or caling it a day, and ending the week with just 8 bosses dead.

I've already established that Thok has been, in fact, solo-tanked, I will take a look at vids later when I have the time to try and get anything useful out of them. Can't seem to find any evidence of anyone successfully doing Malkorok with just one tank, though. We might try this anyway - although I admit, it might be really brutal. If you have any ideas or suggestions that might help with this boss, feel free to share (and I'll be sure to tell you how it went, if we manage to pull it off, or at least come close).