[5.4] Affliction Warlock and Encounter Specific Guides

[Deleted]

I dont want to read through 26 pages of stuff but Im still asking because it doesnt seem fixed: Is the guide missing a rotation for 2 targets? Also, when I have 3 or 4 targets I still do more damage when I continue my single target rotation instead of spamming seeds (of course doing one to apply Corruption and putting up Agony)

[Bonkura]

I dont want to read through 26 pages of stuff but Im still asking because it doesnt seem fixed: Is the guide missing a rotation for 2 targets? Also, when I have 3 or 4 targets I still do more damage when I continue my single target rotation instead of spamming seeds (of course doing one to apply Corruption and putting up Agony)

I think SoC spam on 4 targets that are stacked up is just marginally better than doing a normal multidot rotation. Regarding rotation I think it's a bit too complex and situational to write a guide about it. I haven't played Afflli for that long but I used to play Spriest main before and what I learned from that is to not overdo the multidotting, as in you might wanna focus on keeping Agony on Corruption on 2 of the targets while you add UA on the other 2 and focus your MGs/Haunt on one of them. For 3 targets you should be able to keep dots up on all of them but if you feel it gets too overwhelming just skip UA from 1-2 of them.

[Deleted]

What I mean is that there should be an optimal rotation with exactly 2 targets and the guide should cover this. I am not talking about how you feel about it or what you suggest

[Bonkura]

What I mean is that there should be an optimal rotation with exactly 2 targets and the guide should cover this. I am not talking about how you feel about it or what you suggest

I'm truly sorry for trying to help you. Feel free to contribute to updating the guide.

PS. 2 target rotation is exactly as I said and theres not much to add.

[glendabeck]

I wouldn't dismiss the question that fast there are still a lot of things that haven't even been mentioned yet like ss and sb:ss

[Bonkura]

I wouldn't dismiss the question that fast there are still a lot of things that haven't even been mentioned yet like ss and sb:ss

Regarding rotation I think it's a bit too complex and situational to write a guide about it.

This, until the math is out there. All good locks here have so far only been able to give pointers and provided their idea about how we should play. (AFAIK) How to optimally maintain your soul shards hasn't been figured out yet.

[Staticraver]

What I mean is that there should be an optimal rotation with exactly 2 targets and the guide should cover this. I am not talking about how you feel about it or what you suggest

Everlasting Affliction glyph proved to be a dps gain on a constant 2 target multi dotting fight in the 5.0.3 sims. simulationcraft.org/503/Warlock_2-target.html

Your priorities are to use as few gcds to keep your dots rolling on both targets, and then resume single target dps.

[Bonkura]

Everlasting Affliction glyph proved to be a dps gain on a constant 2 target multi dotting fight in the 5.0.3 sims. simulationcraft.org/503/Warlock_2-target.html

Your priorities are to use as few gcds to keep your dots rolling on both targets, and then resume single target dps.

That was without Pandemic, right? Because it's a 8k dps loss for me in SimCraft with current build.

[dakalro]

Nvm the MG, I forgot the 5th tick is that low.

Not sure if it changed from beta but there are not more "extra ticks" on channels.

[Deleted]

I was wondering if in some specific situations it would be a dps gain to use Drain Soul instead of Malefic Grasp when the target is above 20% Hp.
It may sound crazy, I didn't test it on a dummy and I have no clue how to simulate it in the simcraft.

In a fight were you have no adds to refresh your shards on, what do you think about channeling a DS for 8, 12 or 16 (less if you consider haste) seconds when out of shards ?

During that time channeling DS we would have a dps loss due to the difference between DS and MG ticks, and another loss due to the dots not ticking additionnaly for 75% of a normal tick every second (DS makes dot tick for 150% every 2 seconds only when the target's hps are below 20%).

But after this DS channeling time you would use shards to get instant dot refresh and haunts. The question is : do these additional shards cause enough damage to cancel the loss during the DS cast ?

Anyone already tested that ?

[Tresdallah]

I was wondering if in some specific situations it would be a dps gain to use Drain Soul instead of Malefic Grasp when the target is above 20% Hp.
It may sound crazy, I didn't test it on a dummy and I have no clue how to simulate it in the simcraft.

In a fight were you have no adds to refresh your shards on, what do you think about channeling a DS for 8, 12 or 16 (less if you consider haste) seconds when out of shards ?

During that time channeling DS we would have a dps loss due to the difference between DS and MG ticks, and another loss due to the dots not ticking additionnaly for 75% of a normal tick every second (DS makes dot tick for 150% every 2 seconds only when the target's hps are below 20%).

But after this DS channeling time you would use shards to get instant dot refresh and haunts. The question is : do these additional shards cause enough damage to cancel the loss during the DS cast ?

Anyone already tested that ?

Very very early on in beta, Blizzard found that the better locks were doing just this; drain-twisting. They did not want this to happen, and added in what you said about the DS not giving extra ticks above 20% HP. After that change was made, it was tested and drain-twisting is a clear DPS loss now.

[Deleted]

I didn't know since I haven't played since 4.1. Well then my "good" idea looks bad !

[Deleted]

This is my first post so take it with a grain of salt. Active reader and player since TBC though.

From what i can tell the important thing in haste "breakpoints" on dots should be to reach the smallest number of casts possible. This is further complicated with Dark soul (And heroism but i doubt that´s possible to calculate since we warlocks usually aren´t the deciding factor on when its cast) and clever pandemic usage. Without using Dark Soul it should be fairly simple to calculate the hastepoints and i saw it had already been done. The question is how those values would change with Dark Soul.

My quick napkin math tells me that the uptime on Dark soul dots should be 25%ish on UA + Corruption and 35%ish on Agony. That uptime will be much higher with 4 set but if someone with better skills then me at running those tests that should give us insight on why hastevalues change so much and why certain breakpoints are much more worth than others.

What i am looking for is then basicly a chart of different haste values (with Dark soul usage) and our dots combined duration. This should give us a good idea of when haste is a good stat (increased combined average duration) and when it´s a worse stat (decreased average combined duration).

[Rustjive]

What i am looking for is then basicly a chart of different haste values (with Dark soul usage) and our dots combined duration. This should give us a good idea of when haste is a good stat (increased combined average duration) and when it´s a worse stat (decreased average combined duration).

Ridcully tried to do this earlier - but forgot raid haste and Hero/Lust. Frankly though, it is irrelevant - simcraft reforge plots will give you what you're looking for, even if you don't realize it's the same thing.

[Ridcully]

Ridcully tried to do this earlier - but forgot raid haste and Hero/Lust.

Dot durations are periodic:
Agony reaches minimum duration (>23s) at 1762, jumps to max duration (<25s) at 1763 and then it repeats for each 3525 haste rating.
Corruption reaches minimum duration (>17s) at 2349, jumps to max duration (<19s) at 2350 and then it repeats for each 4700 haste rating.
Agony reaches minimum duration (>13s) at 3021, jumps to max duration (<15s) at 3022 and then it repeats for each 6043 haste rating.

Dot duration can significantly change it's dps, ua being the best example: damage/15 is much lower than damage/13, about 13% less dps. Due to nature of dots, it can be worth to use decreased dot durations, over the duration of the fight you will only lose 2-3 gcd's. Also it seems to be self-balancing system and it is safe to ignore durations.

[nightfalls]

That was without Pandemic, right? Because it's a 8k dps loss for me in SimCraft with current build.

That might have been before they changed the glyph... before that glyph was Pandemic.

[Morgromir]

im a little confused about when to use haunt and refreshing dots. at the the moment i dont have any int proc trinkets, just on-use ones. should i sit on 3 shards until the trinket comes off cooldown and then use 3 haunts during the trinket duration? (3 shards because if sitting at 4, nightfall procs will go to waste)

2nd question, if you dont have any int procs, is it safe to just reapply dots once half their duration is expired?

thanks.

[Deleted]

Ridcully tried to do this earlier - but forgot raid haste and Hero/Lust. Frankly though, it is irrelevant - simcraft reforge plots will give you what you're looking for, even if you don't realize it's the same thing.

Yes i know simcraft does it, the purpose would more be in the why it actually looks the way it does.

Dot durations are periodic:
Agony reaches minimum duration (>23s) at 1762, jumps to max duration (<25s) at 1763 and then it repeats for each 3525 haste rating.
Corruption reaches minimum duration (>17s) at 2349, jumps to max duration (<19s) at 2350 and then it repeats for each 4700 haste rating.
Agony reaches minimum duration (>13s) at 3021, jumps to max duration (<15s) at 3022 and then it repeats for each 6043 haste rating.

Dot duration can significantly change it's dps, ua being the best example: damage/15 is much lower than damage/13, about 13% less dps. Due to nature of dots, it can be worth to use decreased dot durations, over the duration of the fight you will only lose 2-3 gcd's. Also it seems to be self-balancing system and it is safe to ignore durations.

I´m fairly sure that´s not true. You always get 1/423 more dps out of your dots when adding 1 haste rating. If you go over a haste breakpoint you just add one more tick and therefore the duration is extended. Longer duration means less GCDs casting them and more time for other spells.

[Rustjive]

Yes i know simcraft does it, the purpose would more be in the why it actually looks the way it does.

You know why it looks the way it does - Haste thresholds and Haste->Mastery conversion. I don't know why knowing the best overall point for combined DoT duration matters in the slightest - are you telling me you would run that amount of Haste even though it simmed to be less over a variety of scenarios?

I´m fairly sure that´s not true. You always get 1/423 more dps out of your dots when adding 1 haste rating. If you go over a haste breakpoint you just add one more tick and therefore the duration is extended.

That's not true - you get less than 1/423. You gain that in DPS but you lose (some of) it later down the road because your overall DoT duration is shorter, leading to more recasts.

[Ridcully]

I´m fairly sure that´s not true. You always get 1/423 more dps out of your dots when adding 1 haste rating. If you go over a haste breakpoint you just add one more tick and therefore the duration is extended. Longer duration means less GCDs casting them and more time for other spells.

I'll look into that later. Need to find how rounding works for dot formulas.