Mists Fury Warrior Guide

[Maxie]

Never said it ain't the best choice after the fix.

Fix has gone live now. Will keep an eye on Landsoul to see what happens.

By the way, for hit vs mastery, is the high hit build good for both specs or just SMF? I'm currently TG and wouldn't say no to some smoother rage generation.

[Freedom]

Copypasta of my post in the "Hit chance" thread:

I have been ranking slightly better since I went hit>mastery over 7.5% and this is what I have seen Landsoul doing on his armory as well when he is Fury. I am not sure how much lower the burst/overall damage potential is, but I do know that pooling rage for CS dumps etc is a lot easier over 7.5% hit, it helps offset the Avatar nerf on Execute fights like Elegon or Bladelord and since you get more rage you can pay more attention to mechanics/ utility cooldown usage and less attention to your rage. It also lets you spam Cleave more often on a fight like Stoneguard, Garalon or Windlord. The difference between hit>mastery and mastery> hit for me on Elegon was something like 20k DPS, along with better play etc and not derping and taking Bloodbath. WoL ate the logs though. : (

Personally, until someone shows that I am losing like 2-3% DPS by going hit>mastery I am not going back. I don't trust Simcraft on this one entirely either. It just seems easier for not that much DPS loss from what I can tell, haven't simmed it yet though.

Better execution > a bit of DPS I'd say. I'll Simcraft it though.

Armory in sig, 25,000 iterations: Hit>Mastery 89200 DPS, 201k burst (Start and CD stack), Mastery> Hit 89400 DPS, 202.5k burst
.22% difference. Not worth going Mastery>hit for how much more annoying rage can be.

[Maxie]

Copypasta of my post in the "Hit chance" thread:



Better execution > a bit of DPS I'd say. I'll Simcraft it though.

Well it sounds like a good deal to me but since everyone I've seen using it has been SMF I'm a bit uncertain.

Oh, and a random question: is there any place for horde with a 90 dummy that doesn't have its back like, right next to a wall? I've always used the ones at the hunter trainer in orgrimmar but for weaving in heroic leap they're terrible, with both a wall and roof... lol. My poor camera.

[CollisionTD]

I don't know how you guys are having rage issues, unless you are trying to fill every single GCD. I haven't had rage issues since I was in 460 ilevel gear.

If you find yourself using a 30 rage wild strike more than once in between colossus smashes, that's probably what you are doing wrong. No amount of hit/haste is going to allow you to fill every GCD every time.

1% Hit gives the following over a 600 second encounter: (Using BIS SMF Profile. 2.05 seconds per swing, on average.)
+2.92 MH Swings
+2.92 OH Swings
That leads to 26 extra rage from the MH, 13 rage from OH... 39 rage total. Using DPR from heroic strike, that's 100k extra damage.
It also gives +2.92 weapon swings from the MH, which on a BIS profile is 31k per swing, 90k damage.
+2.92 OH Swings, 26k per swing. 76k Damage

So overall you gain 266k damage over 600 seconds, or 444 DPS from 1% hit. 1% hit is 340 rating, so you gain 1.306 dps per rating.

The point of showing you how little hit over cap gives is to show you that any "smoothness" that you gain in your rotation is mostly placebo.

It takes 430 mastery rating to give 1% damage increase while enraged. Current BIS SMF profile has 75% uptime on enrage, so we can say that mastery overall gives a 0.75% damage increase per 430 rating, but to compare with hit we will divide the two, to end up with 0.59% damage increase per 340 rating. Mastery only increases physical damage, which is 85% of our damage, which leads to 0.50% damage increase per 340 rating. That's 630 dps, or 1.85 dps per rating.

So using napkin math, mastery is 40% more effective than hit over 8 percent.

Throwing the numbers into simcraft, just to make sure that my napkin math is decent. I added 340 hit and mastery to the BIS Profile:

Baseline: 120165
+340 hit: 120768 (603 dps gain)
+340 mastery: 120924 (759 dps gain)

My napkin math slightly overestimated the gains (Can't account for everything.), but mastery is still 25% better than hit over 8 percent.

[nyjl]

Upgrd. Carbuncle or normal Lei Shen's Final Orders? Seems like Carbuncle is better, wich is strange, actually.

[Underskilled]

A small question. According to Noxxic, SMF is just about a solid 10k above arms. I've been considering swapping from arms to fury, however doing so, I would be replacing my LFR Starshatter with two Dubious Handaxes. Would the spec change and weapon downgrade lead to an overall dps increase?

[Maxie]

I finally got some nice weapons for SMF, so I switched back to it. Was fun seeing 800k+ execute crits on Feng, SMF so much more fun.

Now, I have some questions regarding hit vs mastery for SMF. What seems to be stronger? And how do I sim hit scaling/value over the softcap?

[Freedom]

Options---- > Scaling-----> positive deltas only.

I personally prefer hit over mastery, and Landsoul is still using hit> mastery over 7.5%. The rage just "feels" more right as SMF.

[Maxie]

Options---- > Scaling-----> positive deltas only.

I personally prefer hit over mastery, and Landsoul is still using hit> mastery over 7.5%. The rage just "feels" more right as SMF.

Simmed it and the normalized values were hit = 0.34 mastery = 0.47. Granted, this was with me already sitting at ~9% hit so maybe there's a certain amount for hit where it is stronger and then its value falls.

[CollisionTD]

Simmed it and the normalized values were hit = 0.34 mastery = 0.47. Granted, this was with me already sitting at ~9% hit so maybe there's a certain amount for hit where it is stronger and then its value falls.

Yeah, and that value is 7.5% hit, 2550 rating.

Here's a graph I made a while ago with simcraft reforging hit to mastery and vice-versa.

i.imgur.com/uOF8T.png

The profile I was using was at 2552 rating or something, so basically right at hit cap. As you can tell from that graph, if you take away hit from the gear and put it into mastery, there is a large drop-off in dps. If you add hit, but take away mastery, the is a smaller drop in dps. The gains/losses are completely linear.

There are only two examples with our stats where the change in stat value is not linear.

Trading crit/mastery.
i.imgur.com/HTbZd.png

This just shows us that as we gain more crit, the value of mastery increases.

Trading Str/Crit
i.imgur.com/ENf2P.png

This shows us that as we gain strength, the value of crit increases and eventually surpasses strength.

As I mentioned a few posts above, the rage gains/smoothness from additional hit are highly placebo.

[Bloodletters]

I asked Landsoul why he is reforging into hit over mastery and he said he does it for fights that require a strong cleave. Having more hit allows you to whirlwind more often. So he doesn't think hit is more valuable than mastery, in a vacuum.

[Maxie]

It's quite obvious that hit loses value at the soft cap, it's not exactly rocket surgery. Still doesn't explain why so many warriors go past the soft cap.

I asked Landsoul why he is reforging into hit over mastery and he said he does it for fights that require a strong cleave. Having more hit allows you to whirlwind more often. So he doesn't think hit is more valuable than mastery, in a vacuum.

But I guess this does. Makes sense. I think I'll stick to mastery unless we get stuck on a cleave/aoe fight though.

[Hesp]

Trying to get a Fury alt going and I have a few questions. I understand that RB is a better filler option than bloodsurge WS's, but unless you have an extra RB proc or another filler you have to use a WS, and by not using all 3 WS's together you throw off the gcd flow. In situations where Bloodsurge and RB are both available is the best option to use RB then follow with a Heroic Throw or Battle Shout? I suppose you could also just use the WS's like normal and just deal with the gcd delays, but that seems sub-optimal. I've been just burning through the Bloodsurge WS's first, since as long as you don't waste a RB proc you can always hold onto it for the next filler cycle, but this runs the risk of not having enrage up for that RB. Would like to know what the proper thing to do in this situation is.

Also, when dealing with execute phase, the guide's image description of the priority seems to contradict the written description. The image shows RB as being just below BT in terms of priority, meaning it should only be used when between 10-29 rage and with CS and BT on cd. However, the accompanying paragraph gives the impression that if you are too rage starved to execute, you should use a no-rage filler. If someone could clear up whether or not it's worthwhile to RB in execute phase if everything else is on cd rather than wait for rage, I would appreciate it.

As far as using CS and BT goes, which should be used first when both are coming up? I frequently run into situations where both come up at the exact same time, and I've wondered if it's best to use BT first as stated in the simc action list or to try to plan it so I can BT right after CS as shown in the guide.

Finally, when dealing with aoe are there certain target amounts where the priority stated in the guide changes? It almost seems like when nearing the aoe cap that CS doesn't increase damage enough to be worth the global, compared to using WW. Of course, CS can still be used to help enrage uptime and provide a cost-free global, but I'm not sure if it should be used on cd or saved for low-rage or no-enrage situations. As an aside, when dealing with 2 targets is it worth using WW over WS to get a stack of meat cleaver for RB? And what's the situation with cleave? Any specific aoe strategies would be great.

Thanks in advance for any answers.

[Deleted]

For the CS question, the CS debuff lasts 6.5 seconds rather than 6, allowing you to have 4 abilities benefit from it. If you BT before the CS you can potentially have 3 RB (or even wild strike, as it hits harder than BT) benefit from it, if you BT after CS you can only have a maximum of 2 RB benefit from it. e.g.

filler - cs - bt - rb - rb - bt

vs

bt - cs - rb - rb - bt - rb

In addition to not pushing back your rage generation, I'd imagine this is part of the reason why BT > CS sims higher.

For the question of WW vs WS when dealing with two mobs, WW for meatcleaver is a clear gain, at least for TG, given that (TG) WW hits almost as hard as WS on single target (ignoring the glyph, which brings it equal and possibly ahead slightly). I'd imagine for SMF even though WS hits significantly harder than WW on a single target when considering two targets WW -> meatcleaver RB is still the way forward, but I'm not certain.

[Nemesyk]

This is correct; Meatcleave is ahead for SMF also when there is more than 1 target.

I asked Landsoul why he is reforging into hit over mastery and he said he does it for fights that require a strong cleave. Having more hit allows you to whirlwind more often. So he doesn't think hit is more valuable than mastery, in a vacuum.

Great, I was wondering also; and that totaly makes senses; Thanks Blood! I wish I was still raiding with you

[Deleted]

Thanks for the nice explained guide. I have altough a question. You say you just should hit bloodbath in CS phase, but on icy veins or noxxius it says to keep it always on cd. So which one is the ways to go?

I've done 2 macros which hits all my CDs (bloodbath, skullbanner, mogu potion, etc). One is to use when I'm enraged (so without berserker rage) and one if not enraged (with berserker rage). My last question is, which level 90 talent to choose? I've heared to go with avatar much more often as to go with bloodbath, because it goes good with the execute phase, because of the rage reg.

I have binded whirlwind on Q (because I use the glyph as TG) and heroic jump on E (just for better movement). Now I have the problem, that I need to stack CDs at 2 different situations, when enraged and when not. Just for this I've written those 2 macros mentioned above. But I cant find a handy place to bind them on keys.
It would be nice if you could give me some advices

-Pirush

[galvin]

For the CS question, the CS debuff lasts 6.5 seconds rather than 6, allowing you to have 4 abilities benefit from it. If you BT before the CS you can potentially have 3 RB (or even wild strike, as it hits harder than BT) benefit from it, if you BT after CS you can only have a maximum of 2 RB benefit from it. e.g.

filler - cs - bt - rb - rb - bt

vs

bt - cs - rb - rb - bt - rb

In addition to not pushing back your rage generation, I'd imagine this is part of the reason why BT > CS sims higher.

For the question of WW vs WS when dealing with two mobs, WW for meatcleaver is a clear gain, at least for TG, given that (TG) WW hits almost as hard as WS on single target (ignoring the glyph, which brings it equal and possibly ahead slightly). I'd imagine for SMF even though WS hits significantly harder than WW on a single target when considering two targets WW -> meatcleaver RB is still the way forward, but I'm not certain.

Do you delay CS when its not up right away after BT? My thinking is to hold CS till after the next BT.

[Nemesyk]

I don't think Rustynip is still around : /
well, he haven't posted for about a month now.

[Adsertif]

You say you just should hit bloodbath in CS phase, but on icy veins or noxxius it says to keep it always on cd. So which one is the ways to go?

Use it in conjunction with Synapse Springs and Dragon Roar on the GCD before your CS.

My last question is, which level 90 talent to choose?

Bloodbath if the fight is longer than 12 seconds, which I imagine most boss fights are.

Do you delay CS when its not up right away after BT? My thinking is to hold CS till after the next BT.

If its CD is >1s I usually put another attack like HT/Shout into the GCD if they're up, if not I wait for it.

[Rustynip]

I don't think Rustynip is still around : /
well, he haven't posted for about a month now.

I'm still around! I just haven't had much time to be on the forums lately with work, school, training and raiding. I'm looking through the thread now and it seems like the rest of the community is doing a good job answering most of the questions that got posted. I'll try and make some comments and answer questions.