PvE players put too much hope into Guild Wars 2 ?

[Morrowind]

*sigh* I'm getting tired of stating that GW2 was trying to be the end game raid experience, but players who hyped it made it seem that way and many bought into the hype. Read my first post.

[DrakeWurrum]

Fact of the matter is, if you enjoy raiding, you shouldn't quit WoW/Rift/SWTOR and come to GW2 expecting raiding. That doesn't mean you won't enjoy GW2 fun - it just means you won't get raiding out of it.

You might, as a raider, like me, enjoy what DEs offer. Enjoy what dungeons offer. Enjoy WvWvW. Enjoy Elite DEs with the big bad bosses.

But nothing here will give you exclusive large-group E-PEEN-waving content.

[Morrowind]

Levelling is not 'moot' in this discussion as we are simply offering reasons/explanations as to why there may be a lack of PvE content at endgame (the amount of content, however, is subject to opinion).




This is merely an assumption you have drawn. At a guess, you are not level 80, therefore to say that they can't replace raids (not even in future, so sure of your statement you seem) without evidence to back yourself up - even you being 80 and having tried out some of the PvE content at end game would put you in a stronger position - simply makes you seem ignorant (I am not implying that you are, I am merely pointing out what others are thinking based on your posts).

On this note, I will also point out that DEs are effectively raid bosses (or have the potential to be) without 2 things: an actual raid instance and trash packs. Shock horror there. Again, you are merely assuming that DEs cannot possibly live up to boss encounters that Blizzard designs. Considering some of the fights in Dragon Soul and how little creativity went into them (again, bear in mind I still really enjoy WoW and am a hardcore HC Raider) it wouldn't surprise me if ANet could come up with something better.



Another assumption. I will continue to think of statements such as this and the one above are assumptions until you can prove otherwise. <- Not me being a prick, me simply saying your arguments have no substance until you provide the evidence to back them up.



How utterly, utterly hypocritical. You're bashing someone who's had a bad experience in a game you clearly enjoy (and they didn't) in comparison to a game they enjoy; while saying that you are disappointed in a game you've just bought (aka, a bad experience) in comparison to a game you enjoy.

I don't take your thread to be a 'QQ' thread, but the simple answer to the question you posed at the start of the thread is merely answered by the statement that you didn't do enough research into the game, or you let the hype get to your head and change whatever pre-conceptions of the game you had if you thought that GW2 would provide an awesome PvE endgame setting. If we assume that you're a first-time buyer, or you just picked up the game in the store, it's not advertised on the back 'WE HAVE S**TLOADS OF PvE ENDGAME, BUY THIS GAME'. ANet advertises the game with the following:
Guild Wars 2 defines the future of online roleplaying games with action-oriented combat, customized personal storylines, epic dynamic events, world-class PvP, and no subscription fees!
I think you'll find that they were accurate in their description of their game.

GW2 isn't trying to satisfy raiders, people are merely pointing out that DEs and Explorable dungeons are the PvE content of the game, just because they don't live up to your standards doesn't mean that they don't satisfy people.

I am by no means being a hypocrite! He stated his guild kicked him for not having a mic and having bad latency. That is not the game's problem. He even said himself it was guild issues!

The second thing being...I am assuming you were going to say loot drops?

[Firestyle]

I think people are right that GW2 doesn't have raiding end-game, and that's fine for now. But, on the longer term horizon it does seem to neglect a fairly sizable portion of players who do enjoy slaying eDargons. I like dynamic events, and explorable dungeons seem interesting as well. But, the underlying thing that's missing from every RPG and MMO fantasy game I've ever played is in fact getting more powerful through leveling and/or gear acquisition. Justifiably, a level cap exists - it's just not practical to have infinite leveling. However, some sort of gear progression would make sense where you can get upgrades. The concept exists in the leveling as it is in the game today; completing content yields rewards which is often gear. You use that gear, along with leveling, to become more powerful and move into new areas. I like a lot of what Anet has done, but gear/character progression has been a staple since Ultima and FFI, and likely even further. An end-game premised on vanity items is a bold move and not likely to pan out.

[Deleted]

Fact of the matter is, if you enjoy raiding, you shouldn't quit WoW/Rift/SWTOR and come to GW2 expecting raiding. That doesn't mean you won't enjoy GW2 fun - it just means you won't get raiding out of it.

You might, as a raider, like me, enjoy what DEs offer. Enjoy what dungeons offer. Enjoy WvWvW. Enjoy Elite DEs with the big bad bosses.

But nothing here will give you exclusive large-group E-PEEN-waving content.

your posts are so biased, it's sickening to read them. You are biggest GW2 fanboy on this forum, for you even shit with ANet logo would be golden.

People have opinions, there's no need to insult them over it and call then "fanboys". Please be respectful of other posters. Infracted. -Edge

[Morrowind]

your posts are so biased, it's sickening to read them. You are biggest GW2 fanboy on this forum, for you even shit with ANet logo would be golden.

He does seem to have a very heavy bias.

[DrakeWurrum]

your posts are so biased, it's sickening to read them. You are biggest GW2 fanboy on this forum, for you even shit with ANet logo would be golden.

How is it biased to tell you that you should be playing both games, instead of trying to replace raiding with GW2?

If you love raiding exactly as it's designed in another game, then go raid in that game. GW2 doesn't have it. If you love raiding specifically because you love killing bosses, and don't care about any of the other details, then you probably don't have to worry about it.

For the record, and I've said this hundreds of times to people who get their panties in a twist from me sharing objective information that simply doesn't bash the game, just as I've stated my opinions on this hundreds of times in hundreds of threads: I hate the story telling - it's just talking heads. I hate how cliche the story writing is. I hate how limited the portrayal of your character is. I hate tiered traits. I hate the WvW imbalance. I would fucking love to have some form of raids, besides just Expo dungeons.

He does seem to have a very heavy bias.

You're the one running around with the opinion that no raiding means no end game, which is simply, objectively, untrue.

If you can't discuss this without insulting people, don't post at all.

[Morrowind]

How is it biased to tell you that you should be playing both games, instead of trying to replace raiding with GW2?

If you love raiding exactly as it's designed in another game, then go raid in that game. GW2 doesn't have it. If you love raiding specifically because you love killing bosses, and don't care about any of the other details, then you probably don't have to worry about it.


You're the one running around with the opinion that no raiding means no end game, which is simply, objectively, untrue.

If you can't discuss this without insulting people, don't post at all.

I don't think you realise how much you are misunderstanding me. I've never said no raiding=no end game. I've just stated that raiders will not find their fix in GW2.

[DrakeWurrum]

I don't think you realise how much you are misunderstanding me. I've never said no raiding=no end game. I've just stated that raiders will not find their fix in GW2.

You may not have explicitly stated it, but you quoted fangless only to say "very true" and he said that no raiding means no end game.

It's also completely untrue that raiders won't find their fix in GW2, but I'm a raider, and I found my fix in GW2. Other players in this thread have come along, saying that they've raided for 7 years, whereas I've only raided for 5, and they found their fix in this game, while also playing other games for raiding.

You can't tell other people what they will and will not like, it's just... silly.

[Deleted]

your posts are so biased, it's sickening to read them. You are biggest GW2 fanboy on this forum, for you even shit with ANet logo would be golden.

When we have to listen to WoW fanbois whinning about the GW2 endgame is ok ?
Whie they havent tested themselfs ? .....

[Deleted]

You may not have explicitly stated it, but you quoted fangless only to say "very true" and he said that no raiding means no end game.

It's also completely untrue that raiders won't find their fix in GW2, but I'm a raider, and I found my fix in GW2. Other players in this thread have come along, saying that they've raided for 7 years, whereas I've only raided for 5, and they found their fix in this game, while also playing other games for raiding.

You can't tell other people what they will and will not like, it's just... silly.

you are not a raider, you are EX RAIDER, who now hates WoW and everything associated with it.

[Morrowind]

You may not have explicitly stated it, but you quoted fangless only to say "very true" and he said that no raiding means no end game.

It's also completely untrue that raiders won't find their fix in GW2, but I'm a raider, and I found my fix in GW2. Other players in this thread have come along, saying that they've raided for 7 years, whereas I've only raided for 5, and they found their fix in this game, while also playing other games for raiding.

You can't tell other people what they will and will not like, it's just... silly.

When did fangless say no raiding means no end game?

[DrakeWurrum]

you are not a raider, you are EX RAIDER, who now hates WoW and everything associated with it.

No. I do not hate WoW and everything associated with it. I most definitely still consider myself a raider, because I freaking love raiding. I only quit because I'm tired of the simple fact that guild drama comes hand in hand with it, and I'm sick of dealing with the kind of people in WoW who love raiding.

Stop being so biased as to make assumptions about me.

---------- Post added 2012-08-28 at 11:51 AM ----------

Pre-launch: the argument that GW2 has no end-game was met with fans that stated their will be, and it will change the world
Post-launch: the argument that there is no end-game is met with fans that state you should of known better, and there isn't going to be any

He said it right there. There's a reason he's saying "there isn't going to be any"

[Deleted]

you are not a raider, you are EX RAIDER, who now hates WoW and everything associated with it.

Ok u should stop talking , cause u really look un-inteliigence

[Morrowind]

No. I do not hate WoW and everything associated with it. I most definitely still consider myself a raider, because I freaking love raiding. I only quit because I'm tired of the simple fact that guild drama comes hand in hand with it, and I'm sick of dealing with the kind of people in WoW who love raiding.

Stop being so biased as to make assumptions about me.

---------- Post added 2012-08-28 at 11:51 AM ----------


He said it right there. There's a reason he's saying "there isn't going to be any"

Please can you quote when Fangless said no raiding=no end game?

[vicious796]

The clear problem I find the OP is having is that they believe stats are what makes gear appealing in the traditional MMO like WoW, Rift, and SW:TOR. This is incorrect. What makes the gear appealing is that it is easily identifiable as "superior" because of the stats. Whenever we get together en masse, it is common for us to try and distinguish ourselves from the crowd and, often, we want to be recognized as "superior" than the base.

Guild Wars 2 offers the same thing however, since its not in the same format as everything else, people naturally refuse to recognize this. If you were to spend the time necessary to obtain dungeon specific gear, legendary weapons, etc. you will still be noticed and you will still be distinguishing yourself. If stat-heavy gear is the "carrot-on-the-stick" of the traditional MMO, the cosmetic and stat tweaked gear in GW2 is the "apple-on-the-rod". It's really the same thing if you take the time to consider it.

The other problem I find is the title - encompassing PvE players a gear-driven. Intentional? Probably not. However, when clicking on the thread that's what I expected and, sure enough, that's what I found. PvE specifies player vs environment and, considering that, GW2 does not fall short of the mark at all. There are at least a dozen ways to grab experience and interact with and against the environment. However, if I take the post for what its content holds, the problem is that players who want to "grow" their character in the online world to be "elite" will not be able to because of the lack of increased stats at the true endgame.

However, one of the most common misperceptions about GW2 that gets thrown around is that all of the gear has the same stat level - this is not true. The gear upgrades in GW2 are not 100% purely cosmetic. There are increased stats and the only gear that is not a true upgrade would be the highest level tiers available only at endgame. There you will see tweaks that will help certain playstyles and make a group more cohesive. If I wanted to be able to soak up damage and play a tank-like role (not a true tank, mind you, but a tank-like role) then I would focus on toughness and health. However, if you just want to kill things quickly you'd focus on precision and power.

So, even if you take raiding off the table (as the OP has mentioned a few times) the problem is actually mental. If players can accept the fact that what they're after is superiority (as is only natural) and that they can still grasp that, they'll be fine.

[Firestyle]

GW2 is a great game, and I think what some folks are indicating is that if it had raiding the end-game would be more robust and it would take a great game and make it better.

Personally, I am somewhat disheartened since I so greatly enjoy raiding that I have to continue to do so in World of Warcraft with cartoon character models, FOTM class/spec performance, and a significantly lower quality graphic world. GW2 has created something amazing with what I've seen of their world and characters, and I would like all of those things + raiding.

Sure there's other end-game in GW2, but it's of lower quality IN MY OPINION.

[puppypizza]

You may not have explicitly stated it, but you quoted fangless only to say "very true" and he said that no raiding means no end game.

It's also completely untrue that raiders won't find their fix in GW2, but I'm a raider, and I found my fix in GW2. Other players in this thread have come along, saying that they've raided for 7 years, whereas I've only raided for 5, and they found their fix in this game, while also playing other games for raiding.

You can't tell other people what they will and will not like, it's just... silly.

Ditto. My post probably got lost a page or so back, or it was just "TL;DR". But I was a "raider" in WoW for 5 years, and I'm satisfied with how PvE is implemented in GW2. Being a raider doesn't mean that you crave gear treadmills or only play to make big numbers appear over bosses. It's about taking the next step from soloing and using teamwork to take down epic monsters and villains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_(gaming)

[Morrowind]

The clear problem I find the OP is having is that they believe stats are what makes gear appealing in the traditional MMO like WoW, Rift, and SW:TOR. This is incorrect. What makes the gear appealing is that it is easily identifiable as "superior" because of the stats. Whenever we get together en masse, it is common for us to try and distinguish ourselves from the crowd and, often, we want to be recognized as "superior" than the base.

Guild Wars 2 offers the same thing however, since its not in the same format as everything else, people naturally refuse to recognize this. If you were to spend the time necessary to obtain dungeon specific gear, legendary weapons, etc. you will still be noticed and you will still be distinguishing yourself. If stat-heavy gear is the "carrot-on-the-stick" of the traditional MMO, the cosmetic and stat tweaked gear in GW2 is the "apple-on-the-rod". It's really the same thing if you take the time to consider it.

The other problem I find is the title - encompassing PvE players a gear-driven. Intentional? Probably not. However, when clicking on the thread that's what I expected and, sure enough, that's what I found. PvE specifies player vs environment and, considering that, GW2 does not fall short of the mark at all. There are at least a dozen ways to grab experience and interact with and against the environment. However, if I take the post for what its content holds, the problem is that players who want to "grow" their character in the online world to be "elite" will not be able to because of the lack of increased stats at the true endgame.

However, one of the most common misperceptions about GW2 that gets thrown around is that all of the gear has the same stat level - this is not true. The gear upgrades in GW2 are not 100% purely cosmetic. There are increased stats and the only gear that is not a true upgrade would be the highest level tiers available only at endgame. There you will see tweaks that will help certain playstyles and make a group more cohesive. If I wanted to be able to soak up damage and play a tank-like role (not a true tank, mind you, but a tank-like role) then I would focus on toughness and health. However, if you just want to kill things quickly you'd focus on precision and power.

So, even if you take raiding off the table (as the OP has mentioned a few times) the problem is actually mental. If players can accept the fact that what they're after is superiority (as is only natural) and that they can still grasp that, they'll be fine.

You use the word problem for a subjective issue; I feel that word is not fitting.

[DrakeWurrum]

If players can accept the fact that what they're after is superiority (as is only natural) and that they can still grasp that, they'll be fine.

That's definitely true. People still gloat about their super-awesome fully-decked armor from GW1, and that gear had even less stats than GW2 does.