PvE players put too much hope into Guild Wars 2 ?

[Morrowind]

Or maybe you're saying things that don't match with what you actually believe. In other words, you're being completely illogical.

When, I'm beggin you to qoute me, did I say no raids= no end game. Actually quote me directly saying this.

[Deleted]

When, I'm beggin you to qoute me, did I say no raids= no end game. Actually quote me directly saying this.

Ok , what is ur problem exactly , cause u are repeating over and over again ?
I am guessing u are using us , in order to increase the size of this negative thread

[Firestyle]

You said the problem you think I'm having is that I believe stats are what makes gear appealing, and then you go on to state your view in a corrective way.

I don't have a problem with that aspect because taht is what makes it appealing to me.

But, every RPG I've ever played had stat gains on successive gear. Deviating from that is a radical approach; we'll see how it works. I certainly am much more of a numbers guy than I am to care about whether you have red shoes or blue shoes. Function over fashion they say.

[Morrowind]

Ok , what is ur problem exactly , cause u are repeating over and over again ?
I am guessing u are using us , in order to increase the size of this negative thread

Read the entire thread and you will understand.

[vicious796]

I disagree somewhat; it's more than superiority. I think it has two-fold issues to consider:

1. MMOs are plagued with the inability to define one's uniqueness where everyone can make a green sylvari mesmer with orange eyes. Everyone can go get the same items from the same bosses, and use the same dyes to make them the same color. Uniqueness comes from rarity, where not everyone can do something.

2. When I got stat upgrades in legend of zelda, I wasn't doing it to be superior than other zelda players whom I didn't know existed. Gear upgrades in an RPG genre is not entirely linked to superiority, but rather it has been a feature of the genre for as long as I've known it to exist.

Excellent points, let me attempt to refute them.

1.) See another post in the forum about the difficulty of explorable mode dungeons in GW2. Most of the playerbase will not be able to defeat them and they are designed to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a random PUG. This still permits rare items. The difference is that the difficulty in GW2 is based around the content - not the number of players. Part of what makes 25 man raiding very hard is getting a consistent group together that is capable. In GW2, the theory is to make the content harder but reduce the number of players necessary.

2.) MMORPGs are definitely RPGs but RPGs are not MMORPGs, if you catch my meaning. In Zelda, you improved to beat the game. There was a set endpoint and you had to get there. In an MMORPG, there is no real end. You play to increase yourself while "living" in a digital world. As such, when we (as humans) try to improve ourselves we use the "norm" or "base" as a means of comparison. When multiple people get together to do something, it's only natural to feel a desire to do it better than others. Hence, the superiority "complex" that traditional MMOs use increased stats to feed.

You said the problem you think I'm having is that I believe stats are what makes gear appealing, and then you go on to state your view in a corrective way.

I don't have a problem with that aspect because taht is what makes it appealing to me.

So why can't you see cosmetic gear that's only attainable through difficult parts of the game - akin to better stats found by doing difficult content in other MMOs - as an equivalent? Especially considering you are actively tweaking your stats to better accommodate your playstyle?

[DrakeWurrum]

When, I'm beggin you to qoute me, did I say no raids= no end game. Actually quote me directly saying this.

You don't have to directly say something to be saying it. O_o

---------- Post added 2012-08-28 at 12:24 PM ----------

But, every RPG I've ever played had stat gains on successive gear. Deviating from that is a radical approach;

GW2 does have stat gains on successive gear. But just like in every single-player RPG I have ever played, that stat gain has a limit.

Every MMORPG has a limit on that stat gain - most of them just constantly raise that limit every 6+ months. GW2 simply doesn't have plans to do that, AFAIK, and I don't see why they need to.


"function over fashion" is still a perfectly valid argument in GW2, considering I have to set up my overall stat allocation just right.

[Deleted]

I didn't read the whole thread through so perhaps someone mentioned it already but...

I would say that big chunk of Guild Wars 2 player-base will be players coming from its prequel which is of course Guild Wars. And now you've got to ask yourself a question - what did people do there over the course of past 7 years, considering the level cap was only 20 by then and you couldn't get any more powerful than that? Farmed ectos, explored, went through the main-questline, created alts and burned on PvP. And what was it all about? Fun, fame, rank and getting really expensive/hard to get unique items (which weren't any more powerful than the rest, it was all about cosmetics and their price). It'd be also good to mention that you couldn't even show off your weapon/off-hand as these weren't visible inside of cities. And guess what? No one cared - people still burned on it like crazy - I know people who got like over 5000 hours /age (that's like more than 200 days /played in WoW), and I myself had 1700~.

So naturally, the whole concept of progression is different than WoW's, but I don't think it's gonna be a major problem. Bah, I actually think that it's not gonna be a problem at all - I prefer no NUMERICAL (it's just numbers man) progression rather than seeing 500,000 crits as it's gonna be in MoP. Btw. I am no GW fan-boy, I ripped on WoW for 5 years as well - just writing down my thoughts.

[Morrowind]

Excellent points, let me attempt to refute them.

1.) See another post in the forum about the difficulty of explorable mode dungeons in GW2. Most of the playerbase will not be able to defeat them and they are designed to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a random PUG. This still permits rare items. The difference is that the difficulty in GW2 is based around the content - not the number of players. Part of what makes 25 man raiding very hard is getting a consistent group together that is capable. In GW2, the theory is to make the content harder but reduce the number of players necessary.

2.) MMORPGs are definitely RPGs but RPGs are not MMORPGs, if you catch my meaning. In Zelda, you improved to beat the game. There was a set endpoint and you had to get there. In an MMORPG, there is no real end. You play to increase yourself while "living" in a digital world. As such, when we (as humans) try to improve ourselves we use the "norm" or "base" as a means of comparison. When multiple people get together to do something, it's only natural to feel a desire to do it better than others. Hence, the superiority "complex" that traditional MMOs use increased stats to feed.



So why can't you see cosmetic gear that's only attainable through difficult parts of the game - akin to better stats found by doing difficult content in other MMOs - as an equivalent? Especially considering you are actively tweaking your stats to better accommodate your playstyle?

To answer your question: I can already get gear I like the look of (if not i can get transmog) plus I get gear that has better stats and I can tweak those stats using reforging. SO I have all those components plus more you see.

[Deleted]

To answer your question: I can already get gear I like the look of (if not i can get transmog) plus I get gear that has better stats and I can tweak those stats using reforging. SO I have all those components plus more you see.

So u dont have a problem with the <<new>> dungeons in wow , that drop exlusive cosmetic gear ?

[Morrowind]

You don't have to directly say something to be saying it. O_o.

I'm goingto explain something now. What you are inferring from my posts is something that I do not believe neither have I stated nor implied it. So you cannot use information you feel is there against me.

---------- Post added 2012-08-28 at 06:28 PM ----------

So u dont have a problem with the <<new>> dungeons in wow , that drop exlusive cosmetic gear ?

No because the game has that and raids.

[Firestyle]

GW2 simply doesn't have plans to do that, AFAIK, and I don't see why they need to.

Yea, I understand the model they have and really indicating they don't have stats was somewhat misleading on my part. My opinion however is that I sort of don't think capping stats and never increasing it is going to work out so well in the end. I'm not saying it's right or wrong mind you; but rather indicating it's a bold approach and I have my doubts. I do expect when that first xpac hits that there will be gear upgrades with stats.

They may not drop "patches" in the mean time, but that was expected. I am somewhat curious of when they plan on releasing the next expansion, since from everything I've seen it sort of needs to be under development as we speak.

[DrakeWurrum]

I'm goingto explain something now. What you are inferring from my posts is something that I do not believe neither have I stated nor implied it. So you cannot use information you feel is there against me.

The problem is that what you are saying cannot be said without first saying "no raiding = no end game"

What I'm saying is that, since you believe otherwise, your entire opening post is completely illogical, and can't possibly be correct, let alone matching with your beliefs. It's not consistent internally.

[Deleted]

No because the game has that and raids.

Why again , did u buy gw2 :P
U seem like an inteligence guy
There are 300+ ppl that didnt pick up gw2 cause of the lack of raids

[DrakeWurrum]

Yea, I understand the model they have and really indicating they don't have stats was somewhat misleading on my part. My opinion however is that I sort of don't think capping stats and never increasing it is going to work out so well in the end. I'm not saying it's right or wrong mind you; but rather indicating it's a bold approach and I have my doubts. I do expect when that first xpac hits that there will be gear upgrades with stats.

They may not drop "patches" in the mean time, but that was expected. I am somewhat curious of when they plan on releasing the next expansion, since from everything I've seen it sort of needs to be under development as we speak.

I've heard, somewhere, though I don't have the source, that the plan is yearly expacs.

They did GW1 "campaigns" every 6 months, so we'll see.

[Morrowind]

The problem is that what you are saying cannot be said without first saying "no raiding = no end game"

What I'm saying is that, since you believe otherwise, your entire opening post is completely illogical, and can't possibly be correct, let alone matching with your beliefs. It's not consistent internally.

How so?

You seem to think that people being unsatisfied with GW2 end game content means that there is no end game. No one is saying this but you.

[vicious796]

To answer your question: I can already get gear I like the look of (if not i can get transmog) plus I get gear that has better stats and I can tweak those stats using reforging. SO I have all those components plus more you see.

So what you're saying is that you just don't want to put the effort forth in a new game? I don't mean that as insulting, I'm genuinely curious. How is that relative to an entire community putting hope into a new game - or, more precisely, wrongly putting their hope into a new game?

I just don't understand, based on this, exactly what GW2 is "lacking" PvE wise in your opinion. You can transmute the appearance of gear in GW2, you can attain gear with better stats, and you can attain side-grades at true end-game to tweak your stats. The difference, then, is only reforging but that only really serves to make gear that doesn't *quite* fit work better.

[Morrowind]

So what you're saying is that you just don't want to put the effort forth in a new game? I don't mean that as insulting, I'm genuinely curious. How is that relative to an entire community putting hope into a new game - or, more precisely, wrongly putting their hope into a new game?

I just don't understand, based on this, exactly what GW2 is "lacking" PvE wise in your opinion. You can transmute the appearance of gear in GW2, you can attain gear with better stats, and you can attain side-grades at true end-game to tweak your stats. The difference, then, is only reforging but that only really serves to make gear that doesn't *quite* fit work better.

You know that it is not on par with convential mmos (not that that is a bad thing) you may aswell not even include it in your list. There is no epic gear in GW2. I have read many articles from Anet devs stating that gear at end game will have very little bearing on the overall experience.

[Reucht]

How so?

You seem to think that people being unsatisfied with GW2 end game content means that there is no end game. No one is saying this but you.

You're a huge troll, really. It's very tiresome to reply to your posts if you just pick out the parts you can bash on. It's clear you have already made your bed, for you GW2 is black. For the "fanbois" it's white and we're telling you there's a lot more grey than you're willing to see, but it stays black. You haven't reached 80 yet, but here you are bashing the end-game. The game is 72 hours old, really.

Account created in Aug 2012 and the majority of your posts are probably in this very thread. You're a troll in its purest form.

I'm glad you won't play this game, your 50 euros will be well spent on developing moar boring DE's. Bye.

[vicious796]

You know that it is not on par with convential mmos (not that that is a bad thing) you may aswell not even include it in your list. There is no epic gear in GW2. I have read many articles from Anet devs stating that gear at end game will have very little bearing on the overall experience.

What do you mean "not on par"? That a stat increase of +30 is somehow superior to a stat increase of +3? The fights are designed with the best possible gear in mind... the difference in the number is absolutely meaningless. Hitting a boss for 3 when he only has 100 health is exactly the same as hitting a boss for 3k when he has 100k health.

[Deleted]

Dont bother Vicious:P
This thread is going , circles and circles :P