Kuni's Frost Mage PVE Guide

[Deleted]

Hm, I don´t know with the "stack haste for RPPM" thing. Just sat 2 hrs with my fellow WL (pretty skilled fella) in TS and we analyzed our logs from the past few weeks (We both have Hydra, Wusho and he has Lei Shen trinket aswell).

The result is disillusioning. I compared fights with ~13% haste difference (used to play Hit>Int>Haste 45.9%>Mastery>Crit) now I play full haste to play arcane occasionally.

We compared 29 fights (kills only) in total 13 with 57 - 59% haste and 16 with ~46%


0.3% more uptime for breath with 13% more haste (average)
0.1% less uptime for wushoolay with 13% more haste (average)

Then we compared whole raid nights with boss kills, trys and trash all together and we had:

1.1% more uptime for breath with 13% more haste
0.9% more uptime for wushoolay with 13% more haste

What happend there? You always have a downtime before a fight, so the RPPM multiplier can stack to an amount where you will nearly have a guaranteed proc at the beginning of a fight and the fights are too short to even out RNG. That´s why haste didn´t had the expected influence on my RPPM trinkets in my last boss kills.
This is just our assumption, but you guys could maybe check your logs aswell to compare with our findings.

Btw. a good argument for full haste builds is the significant higher Brain Freeze procrate, higher FoF procrate (there is RNG too, but it is not as bad as RPPM) and higher Bomb damage. Maybe it could be a viable option to play with full haste before having 1 or 2 RPPM trinkets.

[Deleted]

In fact, Rppm has always been an excuse because it's influence is really overlooked. As you show it, 1% increase of a few percent increase in dps is rally really marginal but it's still an increase.

But you're true, haste is still so strong for Frosts even after being past after all soft cap, is only because of the :
more haste = more bomb's tick/explosion = more FFB = more FoF.

But personally, I'm still going with Int>Haste in my gemming.

[Deleted]

Btw. a good argument for full haste builds is the significant higher Brain Freeze procrate, higher FoF procrate (there is RNG too, but it is not as bad as RPPM) and higher Bomb damage. Maybe it could be a viable option to play with full haste before having 1 or 2 RPPM trinkets.

Thats the conclusion Akraen came off in the Haste Breakpoint Thread.
The idea with 2 Trinkets and then Haste came from simcraft. At the start of ToT where people were getting the first trinkets they found out in simc that haste could be better then int after 2 Trinkets. We know that simc is a little weird with haste and i think thats the reason no one have checked it.

Some other things: I dont find it now but i can remeber that there was a blue post where they said that the RPPM-Chance increases with itemlvl. On WoWhead all i find are old comments with the information out of the first post about it. But they changed at least by the time they introduced the Bad-Luck-Protection.
The question goes the following way:
U checked the uptime. Could you please check the rare number of procs? (or post links so we could check).
U have both trinkets at itemlvl 549. Assuming my mind dont play tricks and rppm increases with itemlvl: Could it be that the gain from haste to proctime is higher at trinkets with 522er itemlvl then to yours because of the really high uptime u have allready and so you override many things.

[Deleted]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-uu350d0sr3jicpka/

Played that ID with ~59% haste

Iron Qon - played really bad, but had very high RPPM uptime

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12799&e=13273


Iron Qon Breath of the Hydra procs

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12799&e=13273

Iron Qon Wushoolay procs

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12799&e=13273



Dark Animus - played well but had ridiculously low Wushooly uptime

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=11737&e=12031

Dark Animus Breath of the Hydra procs

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=11737&e=12031

Dark Animus Wushoolay pros - both Fire Mages play with ~5100 haste (~17.7% haste raidbuffed, while I play with 59% abraxis has 549 and vanic 543 wushoolay)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=11737&e=12031


Just for the record: Don´t play much bosses anymore, because I pass for trials, member who need gear and other guys who really like to rank on WoL - Just if your asking yourself why

*Edit* More uptime with higher ilvl? I guess it is just for a trinket like unnering vision of lei shen? Because the proc is always 100% crit. To benefit more from that trinket beside more static int is a higher uptime, while you gain from trinket like breath more static haste and a higher int proc.

Lei Shen proc multiplier

541 ilevel = 112.88% proc multiplier
535 ilevel = 106.74% proc multiplier
528 ilevel = 100.00% proc multiplier
522 ilevel = 94.56% proc multiplier
502 ilevel = 78.49% proc multiplier
463 ilevel = 54.57% proc multiplier

[Seanothan]

Alrighty I made the switch. Rolling with Cha-ye's and Wushoolay's now. Thanks duders.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Yeah, it's only on UVLS and the weird agi rune thing.

[Deleted]

Yeah, it's only on UVLS and the weird agi rune thing.

Ah i see. Thanks for the clarification.

[Deleted]

So recently when I have been running my simulations to get the stat weights, I have found that it throws me back and forth between reforging to crit and mastery. However, it seems that when I sim it with the new reforges it drops about 500 dps by going mastery instead of crit. Should I just blindly follow the stat weights or go with what sims out the highest amount of DPS?

[Boxedwaffle]

So recently when I have been running my simulations to get the stat weights, I have found that it throws me back and forth between reforging to crit and mastery. However, it seems that when I sim it with the new reforges it drops about 500 dps by going mastery instead of crit. Should I just blindly follow the stat weights or go with what sims out the highest amount of DPS?

Depends on your biggest source of damage. For most fights, you'll do better with mastery > crit, assuming you've got the 4pc.

[pyrostorm9001]

So recently when I have been running my simulations to get the stat weights, I have found that it throws me back and forth between reforging to crit and mastery. However, it seems that when I sim it with the new reforges it drops about 500 dps by going mastery instead of crit. Should I just blindly follow the stat weights or go with what sims out the highest amount of DPS?

I find there isnt much of a difference in 90% and 100% crit chance (after suppression and shatter calculations) .
Combine that with trinket procs and the crit from the int on said proc. I keep myself in and around the 23% crit mark on my character sheet after raid buffs and the rest into mastery if i cant put it in haste.

[Deleted]

Alrighty I made the switch. Rolling with Cha-ye's and Wushoolay's now. Thanks duders.

Do you have access to Breath of the Hydra ?

My character is EU-aggramar / Mspyropanda (Can't link) and I've had poor luck/lower than needed priority on Breath/Cha-Ye (Damn S priests/Moonkins respectively).

Would I be best off getting Cha-Ye or Bo Hydra. If I'm in arcane spec thats a questing only spec at the moment to try and get comfortable with it should frost be terrible in 5.4 (Raid as frost btw)

At equal ilvls is Cha-Ye > Breath for me ? (Obv I would replace SPA trinket)

Your comment makes me curious.

I am guessing BoH/WUsholays is the best combo but possibly Cha-Ye fits in ? (Though I don't see how as it is base crit rather than base haste)

[Deleted]

I would go for BoH / Wushoo as combo. In fact, I am. Cha-Ye is nice for fire.

[Deleted]

I am guessing BoH/WUsholays is the best combo but possibly Cha-Ye fits in ? (Though I don't see how as it is base crit rather than base haste)

BoH is better. But if u have bad dropluck or can't roll again other dudes ChaYes is fine. Its not as good but the gap is not so big.
The mainpoint is to replace the ShadoPantrinket.

[Deleted]

W have a minor/major system. I'm rolling minor on Cha-Ye and Major on BoH. Need to save points for the Horridon weapons (i549 wpn would be SWEET) as these are huge but BoH would be sweet.

[Deleted]

W have a minor/major system. I'm rolling minor on Cha-Ye and Major on BoH. Need to save points for the Horridon weapons (i549 wpn would be SWEET) as these are huge but BoH would be sweet.

Then you do nearly anything right. Just wait and drink a tea

[Seanothan]

Do you have access to Breath of the Hydra ?

If I had Breath of the Hydra I would be dropping Cha-ye's. In all of my Megaera kills; LFR, normal and heroic, I have never seen it drop. As of right now that's 21 kills and no trinket.

[rfarris]

It dropped for me on my first kill of Megaera on my shaman. On the other hand, I'm in 502 gear on my mage and I haven't seen a trinket, or a single piece of tier gear. /sigh.

[ihazabucket]

If I had Breath of the Hydra I would be dropping Cha-ye's. In all of my Megaera kills; LFR, normal and heroic, I have never seen it drop. As of right now that's 21 kills and no trinket.

so is Breath better than the SPA trinket? LFR 502 vs 522?

[Deleted]

so is Breath better than the SPA trinket? LFR 502 vs 522?

Should be.

[Deleted]

so is Breath better than the SPA trinket? LFR 502 vs 522?

Yeah.
Any ToT LFR trinket > 522 SPA (except Lei Shen's trinket, its horrible for any mage spec)