Re-introduce 'Dishonorable Kill' for gankers!

[Smango]

I get what your saying. It does suck to be ganked by a lvl 85+ while questing in stranglethorn. There is no point of them doing that but just lulz. Your idea of world pvp with fair levels maybe 1-3 difference would be nice but then. Me and you both know what pvp servers mean. Means getting ganked for hours and not lvling. It sucks why I went to pve path now you can enjoy the pve game as well do battlegrounds.

[Garkanh]

i started off here in mist with just questing through, not carring about hordes if i saw them, even helping a few kill some rares when i passed by, even when i could have killed them.

untill i got to kun-lai. there suddenly, 3 hordes desided it would be fun to kill me. again and again and again, even though i didn't fight back. so lucky for me one of them left, so i ressed and killed them both. i then kept doing that for 20 minutes, then continuing on my own, killing every horde on my way. except one shadowpriest. shadow priests are OP. (or well, maybe that guy was just good, i don't know)

now i am lvl 90, and every time a person in my guild complains about being ganked by horde, i happily come there and hang around for 20 minutes killing them non-stop.

just my way of returning the favor i guess

[freedrom]

So you want to play on a pvp server but only pvp when you want to? Sounds like you picked the wrong server. Tired of QQ'ers about pvp realms!! Guess you were not cool enough to play on a pvp server, when you first picked it. Server change! Do people think on a PVP realms fights are suppose to be fair. There are no rules in pvp!!! Would suggest you start watching your ass, if you see red, and get the f out of dodge. And really, I'm on a PVE, if I see anyone flagged for pvp I gank em or try. And if they run back to their corpse but still flagged, i'll gank em again. This is Alliance vs Horde. This isn't Horde vs Alliance when one faction thinks it's honorable. QQ'ers are trying to turn PVP realms into PVP when you want, which is pretty much PVE.

[kamikaze148]

And if we made you lose honor for attacking people, let's say, 10 levels under you?

Boom, no more ganking. Only real WPvP allowed.

I agree with this. if you kill someone that doesnt stand half a chance of being able to escape/defend themselves then you should be punished by either losing a portion of your "honor" literally and metaphorically in this case haha, or you get an instant rez sickness debuff that cripples you to the level of the person you attacked.

The idea, of a PvP server as pointed out is for PvP, player versus player, not PvV player versus victim. it really is semi sociopath behavior when a person 10+ levels higher than you is willing to camp you for hours for no apparant reason.

EDIT: Just as a side note, been playing on the same PvP server since vanilla, have ganked many lowbies and been ganked constantly myself, so i know it goes full circle. but with the ridiculous increase in levels/health pools since the games creation, they need to at least have a mechanism where someone taking advantage of a lesser players level should get a debuff or something that makes them the same level equivilant as the player they attacked, similar to the level zoning in GW2.

[pimpeddakota]

This might be me begging to be flamed. But I am sick and tired of pointless low HP ganking.

I love the concept of world PvP.
I don't mind being owned, humiliated, and spat on.

But I do mind it when whenever world PvP is on the radar, it is in the form of people ganking others that are on >30% health and fighting two or three mobs. For what? Half an Honor Point and an additional 0.1 mm to their male organs?
You can almost picture the douche not even bothering with half a smirk, because he didn't even care about the kill. It's almost like a forced behaviour of a sociopath, not doing it for his own gains or even his own amusement, but because he can make another person suffer.

I think there ought to be a system which promotes and rewards kills that really are honourable - say, you fight alone, or you begin the fight when your enemy has at least 70% of his HP. Hell, you should be rewarded for fighting when YOU are on low HP, not the other way around. That would be kicking ass, not killing people on 10%.

This meaningless ganking, however, has got to stop. Don't tell me that's what PvE servers are for, because this is not a matter of avoiding PvP. This is a matter of implementing good design to actually make PvP enjoyable and a bit demanding - thus also more rewarding.

As I'm sure everybody else is saying in all the posts... you are in the open world you are a target. Follow the example I'm about to post because you think this is wrong. Your out hiking in the woods and trip. A bone in your leg breaks and comes through your skin... Your saying it would be wrong for the many predators to come eat you because your wounded....?

Nope sorry. When I was questing and a guild of 5 alliance players attacked me. I knew I was going to lose this but by god I fought the best I could. If you don't like getting ganked 1. Transfer to PvE 2. Don't multiple mobs.

Heck please attack me when I have 5+ mobs on me since I quest in a tank spec. Make me killing you that much easier.

[markdall]

Your name is red, you are a target. Any free honor is welcome. Don't like it, go pve servers. No ganks in that servers.

Wrong, for the same reason the OP is wrong.

PVE server: Griefers flag themselves and follow you around waiting for you to AOE a mob, then gank you.

Nobody cares about DK counts. They certainly didn't in vanilla. Sure, one or two people will but 99% of the population will not care even a little.

In the event that Blizzard made some kind of huge penalty for DKs (dishonorable kills, not death knights) - say, over 5 and you can't queue for BGs, arenas, or dungeons/LFR or something? That's when the griefers level to whatever the max level is to get you a DK from killing them, or level 1, etc. and run around trying to get you to tag them so they can then go die to a mob (or you) and voila, you've now got a DK. Griefers at max level will have these characters following them around grouped with them, etc.

Moral of the story: When you have an idea, think about how people would abuse it.

[Deleted]

The thing is I shouldn't have to move to a PvE server, because I love world PvP. I said that very clearly in my OP.

I want to play on a PvP server and expose myself to the risks and benefits it brings. But I want it to be designed well, thus making sure the PvP occurring there is actually fun and worthwhile. Telling me to go play on a PvE server is extremely ignorant.

Don't you want improvements to be made to PvP as well? You may be one of the people who enjoy the ganking I'm talking of, but even then surely you must like improvements to the gameplay being done.

I am simply talking about rewards and punishments to make true world PvP more attractive, and pointless ganking less attractive. This is Blizzard's job to achieve, and I feel it is my right as a consumer to demand they at least think about it.

As it stands right now, I feel like they have just taken a lazy way out and let an obvious problem remain in the game for years and years simply because they aren't clever enough to solve it, or don't want to put resources into it.

[pimpeddakota]

I agree with this. if you kill someone that doesnt stand half a chance of being able to escape/defend themselves then you should be punished by either losing a portion of your "honor" literally and metaphorically in this case haha, or you get an instant rez sickness debuff that cripples you to the level of the person you attacked.

The idea, of a PvP server as pointed out is for PvP, player versus player, not PvV player versus victim. it really is semi sociopath behavior when a person 10+ levels higher than you is willing to camp you for hours for no apparant reason.

Most players only kill you once if they that higher level then you or killing you to get your off mining or herb nodes. No reason they shouldn't do that. Only time I've ever killed a person multiple times lower level then me is if they target my guild member that I am helping out that is their level. Now if my guild member attacks them I don't join in. I will let them fight it out and if need be rez my guild member afterwards lol

[SamR]

Yea, some people are just afraid of a fair fight, other people, are afraid to lose. which one are you?

If you want a fair fight, why are you playing on a PvP server? The whole point of leveling on a PvP server is that you might run into PvP while out doing something else. Either you might jump someone and have an advantage or get jumped and be at a disadvantage.

A fair fight is one where both parties are equally prepared and at full health. Tons of that happen on my PvE server outside the gates of Org...

[pimpeddakota]

The thing is I shouldn't have to move to a PvE server, because I love world PvP. I said that very clearly in my OP.

I want to play on a PvP server and expose myself to the risks and benefits it brings. But I want it to be designed well, thus making sure the PvP occurring there is actually fun and worthwhile. Telling me to go play on a PvE server is extremely ignorant.

Don't you want improvements to be made to PvP as well? You may be one of the people who enjoy the ganking I'm talking of, but even then surely you must like improvements to the gameplay being done.

I am simply talking about rewards and punishments to make true world PvP more attractive, and pointless ganking less attractive. This is Blizzard's job to achieve, and I feel it is my right as a consumer to demand they at least think about it.

As it stands right now, I feel like they have just taken a lazy way out and let an obvious problem remain in the game for years and years simply because they aren't clever enough to solve it, or don't want to put resources into it.

The only suggestion I would think MIGHT be a good idea is use the tech that allows blizzard to downgrade our gear, etc in challenge modes to downgrade our gear for PVP only to meet the "max" quest level of the zone. Example Durotar your generally out of the zone by level 10 so if a level 90 finds a level 9 player questing there his stats would get downgraded to level 10.

Now yes I know the level 90 player would have so many more abilities then the other player and generally will win the fight but that's about the only suggestion I could think I would support to make world pvp more balanced.

[freedrom]

The thing is I shouldn't have to move to a PvE server, because I love world PvP. I said that very clearly in my OP.

I want to play on a PvP server and expose myself to the risks and benefits it brings. But I want it to be designed well, thus making sure the PvP occurring there is actually fun and worthwhile. Telling me to go play on a PvE server is extremely ignorant.

Don't you want improvements to be made to PvP as well? You may be one of the people who enjoy the ganking I'm talking of, but even then surely you must like improvements to the gameplay being done.

I am simply talking about rewards and punishments to make true world PvP more attractive, and pointless ganking less attractive. This is Blizzard's job to achieve, and I feel it is my right as a consumer to demand they at least think about it.

As it stands right now, I feel like they have just taken a lazy way out and let an obvious problem remain in the game for years and years simply because they aren't clever enough to solve it, or don't want to put resources into it.

With what you are saying, your trying to turn world pvp into a BG. Do people not know what pvp servers are? When I was on a pvp server, I ganked EVERY horde I saw. Didn't matter the level. Shouldn't play a horde on a pvp server that I have an alliance on. Seriously, if you don't like all the aspects of pvp, even being ganked by a higher level character 20+ times, switch to a new server because you don't belong on a pvp server. Why blizzard made 4 different kind of servers! Man up.

[mvaliz]

The problem with Dishonorable kills is that the gankers can use that to their advantage - by carrying 1 or more low-level character with them to ensure nobody tries to defeat them without risking a dishonorable kill themselves.

I believe there's some other MMORPG has a system where if you attack a lowbie - the first hit does no damage, but it will INSTANTLY scale the attacker down to that person's level temporarily in order for them to fight evenly. With the way gear-scaling works with challenge modes, this method can probably be easily implemented.

[kamikaze148]

With what you are saying, your trying to turn world pvp into a BG. Do people not know what pvp servers are? When I was on a pvp server, I ganked EVERY horde I saw. Didn't matter the level. Shouldn't play a horde on a pvp server that I have an alliance on. Seriously, if you don't like all the aspects of pvp, even being ganked by a higher level character 20+ times, switch to a new server because you don't belong on a pvp server. Why blizzard made 4 different kind of servers! Man up.

Erm not really. it made sense back in the level 60 days to have PvP servers the way they are at the moment, a level 60 without PvP resilience gear could theoretically be taken down by a group of level 40's questing together in STV for instance, so the scales were at least balanced to a degree for PvP

The game has changed, with level 90's having 300k health ++ you do the math, PvP should be a fun and interesting aspect of the game, what your doing is being an asshat douchehole and taking away someone elses experience and enjoyment from the game tbph.

[freedrom]

Erm not really. it made sense back in the level 60 days to have PvP servers the way they are at the moment, a level 60 without PvP resilience gear could theoretically be taken down by a group of level 40's questing together in STV for instance, so the scales were at least balanced to a degree for PvP

The game has changed, with level 90's having 300k health ++ you do the math, PvP should be a fun and interesting aspect of the game, what your doing is being an asshat douchehole and taking away someone elses experience and enjoyment from the game tbph.

I've played through Vanilla on a pvp server. I never got owned by a group of 40's. maybe 50's, that was REALLY RARE. But if you wanna go by level, a group of 80's could take out a 90. If they are a higher level you have no chance!!! Except move to a PVE server where your safe.

[Deleted]

For me world pvp is what you got in DaoC, WAR, Aion and more recently GW2.

I always used to laugh when a rogue would attack me after a fight hoping for a quick kill, and then run away in stealth when i attacked back.

[coldbear]

To quote what I said on this subject last week:

I'm still of the mind that PVP servers should have one major mechanic put in that would simply erase most of the ganking complaints.

When a player kills another that is more than 7 levels below them, or whatever the player cutoff is for grey/honorless target, they could be inflicted with a debuff that stacks. When it reaches 5 stacks within a few minutes the player is given the equivalence of resurrection sickness.

Along with the stipulation that cities (and possibly the zones they inhabit entirely) would be exempt from that debuff. This would allow city raids and make all current content completely open to world pvp while making max level characters patrolling low levels zones for the sadistic kick a lot less rewarding.

With the result that anyone 7 levels below max level is now free to harass and do whatever the hell they want to opposing side players. You've created a monster. All you have to do is run around and hit people more than 7 levels above you - they can't defend themselves for fear of a debuff. You can group up with others, mix in with the crowd, and be unstoppable in your griefing.

No thanks. Go to a PVE server. Or a BG. Or arena. Just leave me and the others the outside world. Lord knows you use it little enough as it is.

[Windfury]

The problem with Dishonorable kills is that the gankers can use that to their advantage - by carrying 1 or more low-level character with them to ensure nobody tries to defeat them without risking a dishonorable kill themselves.

I believe there's some other MMORPG has a system where if you attack a lowbie - the first hit does no damage, but it will INSTANTLY scale the attacker down to that person's level temporarily in order for them to fight evenly. With the way gear-scaling works with challenge modes, this method can probably be easily implemented.

I think it was Warhammer? In something you were instantly polyed into a chicken if you attacked a significantly lower level player.

On the topic at hand no, I don't believe in more restrictions on pvp. If you dislike it move to a pve server.

[Deleted]

Translate of OP:

"HURR I GOT GANKED QQ THEY MUST SUFFER DURR QQQQQQQQQQQ <insert stupid idea that is not even close to what DKs used to be> QQQQQ I'M BAD AT THIS GAME"

my answer:
no, go play on pve server please

Wow.. I actually got dumber as i read your post

I think it is a good idea. Lowskilled people are the only ones ganking

[Deleted]

No thanks. Go to a PVE server. Or a BG. Or arena. Just leave me and the others the outside world. Lord knows you use it little enough as it is.

You're not hearing me. I do like action out in the world. I just want it to be well designed.

What would you prefer:

• Awesome skirmishes between two or more players out in the open world, where they all have something worth fighting for (lucrative rewards) and are on mutual grounds. You both gain something for participating in honorable combat, but the winner takes the bigger prizes obviously.

OR

• People running around slowing down the leveling process of other people by ganking them at 20% HP as they are killing mobs and basically have no clue what just hit them. Essentially no reward or gratification, only people suffering and having their real life time wasted for nothing. All of us seem to be annoyed when this happens to us, yet no one ever seems really happy that they have done it to other people. It's like a pointless habit you just can't shake off. 'Oh, a person struggling with a mob, I'll kill him with one hit! ... Meh, I'm bored. *Shrug*' Why is that something you want to preserve so dearly, when it could be changed into something which actually brings enjoyment and an honest challenge to strive for?

Which of the two sounds more like world PvP to you, and which of the two is what Azeroth should contain? If you think like me, that the first option sounds way more awesome, then I don't see why we are having this argument and you are asking me to leave your world.

[Eggoman]

This might be me begging to be flamed. But I am sick and tired of pointless low HP ganking.

I love the concept of world PvP.
I don't mind being owned, humiliated, and spat on.

But I do mind it when whenever world PvP is on the radar, it is in the form of people ganking others that are on >30% health and fighting two or three mobs. For what? Half an Honor Point and an additional 0.1 mm to their male organs?

First off, that is pretty darn significant percentage increase for many of the people that gank.

You can almost picture the douche not even bothering with half a smirk, because he didn't even care about the kill. It's almost like a forced behaviour of a sociopath, not doing it for his own gains or even his own amusement, but because he can make another person suffer.

I think there ought to be a system which promotes and rewards kills that really are honourable - say, you fight alone, or you begin the fight when your enemy has at least 70% of his HP. Hell, you should be rewarded for fighting when YOU are on low HP, not the other way around. That would be kicking ass, not killing people on 10%.

This meaningless ganking, however, has got to stop. Don't tell me that's what PvE servers are for, because this is not a matter of avoiding PvP. This is a matter of implementing good design to actually make PvP enjoyable and a bit demanding - thus also more rewarding.

I can tell you off the bat who people like this are. I know one that comes onto our vent and no one likes him. He works at a retail store part time and lives at home with his parents. He is beyond retarded and sucks at games, he is your atypical melee that stands in front of the boss with the tank. Yes, he also is a BG yeller, the guy yelling out commands in BG's and complaining about alliance. He rolls on RP PVP servers to specifically gank people and oozes his love for PvP on vent. To him PvP is ganking people thats it and you know what, all the MMOs sans GW2&Warhammer give him the ammunition to do what he does. Gank.

World PvP is ganking, the only way to get rid of it is either install a system like Warhammer where you turned into a chicken if you attacked someone lower level. Or you can go GW2 and have entire zones that are PvP only and install objectives like treasure chests or keeps to fight over.

Nothing has been done to make World PvP fun in WoW for 8 years or whatever time its been out. The devs have probably already given up on it so I would suggest rolling on a PvE server if you aren't into ganking or being ganked.