Removing factions requirements from justice points vendors

[Inay]

Actually the changes made sense. There were many ways to get 450ilvl gear without quartermasters and I was acutally already geared from hc dungeons when I hit the needed reputations for the factions to buy 450 gear.

Why would the 450ilvl gear need to be locked if you will have already better gear before you can purchase it?

The items that actually matter still require reputation and now you could actually buy some pieces before you get the replacements from the hc dungeons.
Its more logical now and the "honored" items can now serve some purpose atleast. This change was not about making the game more casual-friendly but rather to fix anomality in the gearing process.

[Azrile]

No one knows what the majority of people think, neither you and i, we do not know if they want that change or not, that is the problem.

The solution could be buffing the items for the higher ones that drop in heroics like i do not know maybe 470.

For me the stupid thing about the JP gear is that it rewards you with lower item lvl that heroics do.

If they would reward you with higher item lvl then heroics, i think there wouldn't be so much rage for it.

And if they did it, people would accept the rep grind because it would reward you for higher time investment.

You still don´t see the point of why Blizzard changed it. It was absolutely useless the way they had it set up. By the time you could get the gear, you no longer needed it. It would be like giving ilvl 370 quest rewards in Dread Wastes... it just made no sense in any type of progression model for any player.

But really, puff your chest out and be ´tough´on a game forum. pathetic people will be pathetic. It was a common sense change they made. They simple had messed up gear progression.

[Thage]

Blizzard's direct-from-game-logs info > OP's unsupported assertion that this change only came to cater to a vocal minority. The game logs don't care about what forum posters think, they don't care about whether you liked BC more than MoP, they only show what you do ingame, and when people are transferring JP over to honor instead of buying JP gear to fill in the gaps they aren't filling in heroic dungeons (either due to crappy RNG or because they can't queue for heroics in their current gear) due to rep restrictions, change needs to happen.

Sorry, OP, you're in the minority this go-round; very few people I've spoken to want a return to BC's godawful and let's not forget bloody boring rep setup where you had to turn in two hundred bags of dog shit just for a chance to buy something you outgeared weeks ago through other activities when instead you could get a full set of epic gear by getting HK-farmed in battlegrounds.

[Dietrik]

Some people hit a wall for heroics (one of mine did), it could have been dropped to friendly so at least you had to set foot in a zone.

[Bisso]

There nothing to debate here.

It's not about a local minority complaining, it's about Blizzard realising that people would basicly just skip all the 450 gear because: you can get all the gear needed to go in heroic with just quest gear, you will get better gear under 1 week of heroic dungeon running.

Before the change, the only thing you could be interested in faction for were the revered epics (LFR ilvl or so if I remember) and the patterns/mounts. All they did is bring things down so they don't run into the problem of having all players skipping this gear because they would reach them too late in their progression. That's what partly happened to me.

I had better 463 items in slot I was previously looking to fill with honored rep gear. So I ended up looking for the next thing, which was the epics, and the epics required revered, but to get revered would require at least a week (havent done the math, but likely more than a week). Leaving these items to compete with LFR (remember they still cost valor points, so you can't fill your toon in 1 week), while you basicly could with some luck in LFR, normal run with Elder charms.

This change was just made after realising that the rep gear would always be available too late.

[Byniri]

I think it's fine. It's only JP gear, it's not good.

If you are seriously quitting because of this, please do. It's an incredibly stupid reason to quit.

[Ebildays]

I kinda disagree, and i think it is horrible and another horrible thing.When first learn of this, ok cool, they are changing it that you have to do something before getting gear as it was way back in tbc and classic when you have to gain reputations with factions to gain usefull items to begin with. I thought it will be the comeback to those days.Today i look on front page of mmo champion i see they removed it, because of the rage of vocal minority.I kinda liked the idea of having to reach some lvl of affection with the faction to have the ability to gain some nice gear.But of course they have to remove it.Expansion started cool, but those changes are making me angry and i am thinking of deleting my wow account because of it.What would it matter if you would take one or 2 days more before getting justice gear, it wouldn't hurt anyone.It is not about hearing your customers, it is about hearing the vocal minority which is less then 5% of overall player base.

Correct me if I am wrong but in TBC you could at least do dungeons turn-ins to gain rep with the different factions and you still have to have the rep to get the crafting patterns and such in MoP. The JP gear is not the same as it was in WotLK and Cata where it was BiS until you could get heroic/Raid gear, it is fill in gear until you replace it in normal dungeons. But if by the time you can get the JP gear you have already geared out from the normals the JP gear has no place.

[S1ay]

If you actually think about it logically. You can see why it was changed.

1. JP gear required Honored.
2. When you hit 90 you would only have Klaxxi honored if you did Dreadwastes. You can buy 1 piece.
3. Golden lotus needed to be Rev before you could start grinding Shadow Pan and the Augusta (like 2 months before they hit honored)
4. Golden lotus is neutral and takes over a week to hit honored.
5. JP gear was ilvl 450 Heroics 463
6. To get JP you will be running Heroics.
7. I have been 90 for a week and I'm in full Heroic gear except for 2 slots. Klaxxi is honored and Golden Lotus wont be honored till tonight.
8. So by the time I even got the second rep 2 honored. All the JP gear is obsolete already. Meaning the grind is pointless. If just JP was on these reps I would stop doing them at this point but the valor means I will keep going.


So if the JP gear is never bought by anyone. Is it good design or bad?

[SamR]

So why we began to hear about wellfare epics while and wrath and not bc[COLOR="red"]

The term "welfare epics" was coined by Tigole at the 2007 Blizzcon that referred specifically to TBC arena gear.

For someone who likes to make fun of "Wrath babies", you have a pretty poor recollection of TBC.

[MoanaLisa]

I kinda disagree, and i think it is horrible and another horrible thing.

When first learn of this, ok cool, they are changing it that you have to do something before getting gear as it was way back in tbc and classic when you have to gain reputations with factions to gain usefull items to begin with.

I thought it will be the comeback to those days.

Today i look on front page of mmo champion i see they removed it, because of the rage of vocal minority.

People made the point that by the time many people would have completed the reputation grind, if you had any interest in dungeons or raiding at all, the gear would be useless. And it's a fair point. By itself, this is not such a terrible thing. We'll have to see if this goes further and by how much.

[Obby]

oh my gawd you bc morons need to take your goggles off and let the game progress not go BC R TEHS BESTS BRINGS IT BACK...they tried with cata dungeons it failed get over it bc is the past shut up about it and let it move forward

same for you vanilla ppl i feel mop is vanilla/bc centered around the annoying rep grind and lvling.....grinding mobs faster then questing

just sit down and be quiet for every time one of you says this xpac was the best....theres thousands who think your morons

sit back
shut up
let the game flow

oh most of all stop crying

[Paarthurnax]

If you actually think about it logically. You can see why it was changed.

1. JP gear required Honored.
2. When you hit 90 you would only have Klaxxi honored if you did Dreadwastes. You can buy 1 piece.
3. Golden lotus needed to be Rev before you could start grinding Shadow Pan and the Augusta (like 2 months before they hit honored)
4. Golden lotus is neutral and takes over a week to hit honored.
5. JP gear was ilvl 450 Heroics 463
6. To get JP you will be running Heroics.
7. I have been 90 for a week and I'm in full Heroic gear except for 2 slots. Klaxxi is honored and Golden Lotus wont be honored till tonight.
8. So by the time I even got the second rep 2 honored. All the JP gear is obsolete already. Meaning the grind is pointless. If just JP was on these reps I would stop doing them at this point but the valor means I will keep going.


So if the JP gear is never bought by anyone. Is it good design or bad?

This ^^^

Mop hit Tuesday, and i had made the 450 justice gear obsolete by Friday sitting at 4k justice and 1k valor with nothing to spend either on. After the changes the 458 justice gear is still obsolete and now its the quest for more valor to buy the 2 quality epics from Lotus/Klaxxi rep.

Still have to grind dailies for charms/rep since the revered rewards are worth getting as well. So much to do so little time!

[timtim89]

Pretty sure I read that they removed the faction lock form the gear because it wasnt suppost to be there in the first place plus its only 450 ilvl

[checking facts]

It was a good thing, i do not need to get gear faster, and i want to have good time, getting better gear faster isn't my idea of good fun.

Plus you can do heroics in greens, plus from heroics drop items lvl 463 so you didn't even need to buy any of justice gear stuff,

on top of that was it really that hard to reach honored with the factions

Valor needs now honored instead of reveared that is big deal since to get from honored to reveared you have to earn 12 000 reputation points so that a nice ammount of the points.

it's hard to get honored with shado-pan and the august celestials, considering you need revered with golden lotus to start the grind lol

[Freia]

I kinda disagree, and i think it is horrible and another horrible thing.

When first learn of this, ok cool, they are changing it that you have to do something before getting gear as it was way back in tbc and classic when you have to gain reputations with factions to gain usefull items to begin with.

I thought it will be the comeback to those days.

Today i look on front page of mmo champion i see they removed it, because of the rage of vocal minority.

I kinda liked the idea of having to reach some lvl of affection with the faction to have the ability to gain some nice gear.

But of course they have to remove it.

Expansion started cool, but those changes are making me angry and i am thinking of deleting my wow account because of it.

What would it matter if you would take one or 2 days more before getting justice gear, it wouldn't hurt anyone.

It is not about hearing your customers, it is about hearing the vocal minority which is less then 5% of overall player base.

Justice gear wasn't nice. The gear has less stats and is lower ilevel than heroic dungeon gear and not even needed to complete those dungeons. No one was buying justice point gear. Because of this, the time they took making the gear was wasted. Of course they made a change.

Valor needs now honored instead of reveared that is big deal since to get from honored to reveared you have to earn 12 000 reputation points so that a nice ammount of the points.

For valor rings, amulets and other small accessories, it only requires honored. For armor, trinkets, etc it is still revered.

[Demiknight]

OP, you give the best reason for this change in one of your posts.

"plus from heroics drop items lvl 463 so you didn't even need to buy any of justice gear stuff"

This change simple takes 450 blues and gives them a few days of usefulness. It really doesn't change almost anything, but as it was these items made no sense whatsoever.

[Pascal]

What was stupid was that, by the time you would have hit the reputation required to get these items, you would not need them any longer.

If you seriously think that making a reputation requirement for gear with item levels lower than those attainable in heroics was going to get anyone out in the world, farming rep for gear, you are some kind special. Getting 440 requirement for heroics was easy, heroics are easy, it's just then a matter of doing them enough to get the drops you want, or being lucky, or doing them with your guild where no one uses the same kinds of loots, or whatever.

It wasn't a "vocal minority". It was "bad design". A blue post, I believe it was Ghostcrawler, even confirmed that this was poor design in hindsight. Your wild 5% claim is also ridiculous considering the situation.

In addition, with the valor point max at 3000, with 1000 a week, you would cap out on valor before being able to buy items, which is why some of them had their required rep reduced to Honored. I believe it would take more than 3 weeks to hit revered with certain factions, leaving your valor to rot without being able to gain more. I was also capped out on Justice Points in a few days, without the rep to spend any of it. People were just buying honor with their JP and buying honor gear. This is all simply poor design.

The only thing I disagree with about the recent ilvl changes, gearing changes, etc, is reducing the ilvl requirement to get into heroics, and the fact that heroics are brain dead easy to begin with. If you're going to be upset about anything that "casuals are making the game worse" because of or whatever, go ahead and complain about that.

[DeadmanWalking]

Heres the problem, what if you max out JP before you hit level 90 and can get your rep up to revered with that faction? Are you supposed to sit with your thumb up your rear until you get to 90 with max JP and grind up the rep? It is not about getting 'welfare blues', its about being able to spend the JP when you need to spend it.

[davesurfer]

If you actually think about it logically. You can see why it was changed.

1. JP gear required Honored.
2. When you hit 90 you would only have Klaxxi honored if you did Dreadwastes. You can buy 1 piece.
3. Golden lotus needed to be Rev before you could start grinding Shadow Pan and the Augusta (like 2 months before they hit honored)
4. Golden lotus is neutral and takes over a week to hit honored.
5. JP gear was ilvl 450 Heroics 463
6. To get JP you will be running Heroics.
7. I have been 90 for a week and I'm in full Heroic gear except for 2 slots. Klaxxi is honored and Golden Lotus wont be honored till tonight.
8. So by the time I even got the second rep 2 honored. All the JP gear is obsolete already. Meaning the grind is pointless. If just JP was on these reps I would stop doing them at this point but the valor means I will keep going.


So if the JP gear is never bought by anyone. Is it good design or bad?

This post sums it up. I think that PERHAPS if it was 463 gear, it MIGHT make sense. Then it would be to help fill a slot that you had bad RNG on. But at 450 (what it was released at) it made no sense. You had 450 from quests or something close.

Gating really bad gear is bad design. So either remove the rep or leave the rep and make it = to heroic dungeons (463)

What made it really odd is that LFR is for casuals, and yet it requires 463 iLvL to get in. With JP at 450 at launch, how was a casual to even get in the content directed for them?

[DeadmanWalking]

Hell I have item level 436 at 90 and I am still wearing a cape and trinket from dragon soul and I only did quests. I haven't done any dungeons and havent spent any Justice points. Why the hell would I go grind rep for JP gear at 90 when most quest greens are close enough to send me into heroics where I can get valor?

Sorry to poke your bitching in the eye with the reality stick.