Gear just got ninja'ed. Curious about why.

[adelerollsinthedeep]

reasons to let players roll need on offspec:

1. your healer won't be in AH greens with a strength trinket

2. your tank won't be in crafted pvp gear

3. the paladin who queued as dps won't be holy spec in holy gear doing 10k dps so he can gear up for ret

4. a significant portion of mainspec dps players will heal or tank for faster queues, shortening the queue time for everyone


reasons to not let players roll need on offspec:

1. ITS MY GEAR AND I WANT IT NOW

--

honestly the reason blizzard "doesn't care" is because letting people gear up offspecs while playing their geared main spec actually makes the random dungeon finder a better place for everyone except the 1 person whining about how he lost a loot roll

[Belloc]

How else am I, as a tank, going to get loot for my DPS spec? I mean, I DPS for my group on solo-tank fights, so I actually do need DPS gear.

You might suggest I queue as DPS, then. Yeah right, and wait 10-15 minutes for a DPS queue? No, thank you. In exchange for the ultra smooth tanking I'm providing, I'm going to roll on DPS upgrades. I expect healers and DPS to roll on tank upgrades, as well.

5-mans are meant for gearing up and that's exactly what I'm doing. If you don't like it, then myself and all of the other tanks can stop tanking for you and your queue times can go from 10 minutes to an hour. Would you prefer that?

[Viled]

a mage decided to need on the stamina trinket from Coren Direbrew that at the time i needed it. /facepalm

no one "needs" the stam trinkets from coren, they are there as fun trinkets for anyone to have.

and if you mean you are a tank and "needed" it then you are bad, +300 mastery or parry or dodge is better then that thing

[Mandible]

First of all the loot system is pretty bugged atm. Seen more than one case where I was able to need on things like plate as priest and so on. Second - I understand that locks shouldn´t be able to roll on spirit gear, but the priest could need on it since he could use it as dps (but I´m sure someone allready mentioned this by now). Your reaction was however also a dick move, since it doesn´t make you one ounce better to "need on all you can" just because he was being a dick towards you (in the sense that he ought to have the simple respect to check if a dps needs it first).

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 06:03 AM ----------

no one "needs" the stam trinkets from coren, they are there as fun trinkets for anyone to have.

and if you mean you are a tank and "needed" it then you are bad, +300 mastery or parry or dodge is better then that thing

Also he drops an actual tanking trinket with dodge on it from what I recall.

[kamikaze148]

I don't blame the healer at all for rolling on something that benefits them.

This and alot of other attitudes in the thread are what is wrong with WoW these days. Noone gives a shit about the player next to them or the repercussions of dick move actions

its all me me me, its hard for ME to get gear, I NEED that. Yeah sure its hard to gear your offspec, thats why its an offspec, its something that is different from your main role in the game, and you dont NEED the gear over someone that actuall plays a tank, or a DPS as a main spec, and the drop rate is ultra low on a specific item.

The repercussions arent for you, its for the person you selfishly needed off.

Its past the point of no return, and i realise there is nothing left to do but complain about it, sure. but honestly...i never ninja loot off a role that needs it over me for MS, heck i can remember gearing up my pally for holy OS during Cata, and the Shield that drops off Jaina in end time was on the need list for me to upgrade my blue, i must have run that place around 12 times in a row, saw it drop 3-4 times and got it on the 12th...all because a MS holy pally, or a shaman needed it over me.

Decency goes a long way in life.

[zshikara]

As a resto shaman I was able to need on a 2 handed sword. I think its just a bug that Blizzard will fix soon. During cata the need/greed system worked perfectly as I think it should have. Not sure how it got messed up, but hopefully it'll get fixed. Considering all these blues won't mean a damn thing in about a month I don't care if my gear gets ninjaed. I'll get something better or it on another run.

[adelerollsinthedeep]

its all me me me, its hard for ME to get gear, I NEED that. Yeah sure its hard to gear your offspec, thats why its an offspec, its something that is different from your main role in the game, and you dont NEED the gear over someone that actuall plays a tank, or a DPS as a main spec, and the drop rate is ultra low on a specific item.

i'd say over half the hybrids i know play their offspec in raids on a regular basis. sometimes a fight needs an extra tank, or one less healer, sometimes it's better to have a prot warrior and a feral cat and other times it's better to have a bear druid and a dps warrior.

there are some players who simply excel at one role but there are many who switch as needed. ele shamans went resto on spine, resto druids went boomkin on rag, and what do you do for 3 tank fights? just have a bench tank you bring in for one fight a week?

anyway good luck next time you get a healer in 3 agi pieces ooming after every trash pull because he wanted to be a decent person and play the spec he was gearing

[Mormolyce]

It seems likely Blizzard will eventually extend LFR style loot to dungeons. Or at least some of the modified need/greed rules they used in the old DS version of LFR looting. At the moment the game knows the difference between a STR wrist and an INT wrist for example, but rings/trinks/cloaks (IIRC) it is basically clueless about so anyone can need on them. Seems silly to us but remember the loot system was a long running iterative process. I'm sure if Blizzard was to make WoW again tomorrow they'd start with a very different, simplified loot system with clearer "rolling". It's really quite a tangle at the moment.

[Deleted]

Dam I really missed the loot drama in wow :P

And personally, I think the loot system is fine, the community is not.

And i know that if I am in a dungeon 5 with full randoms, I will neeed what I want, MS or OS, but only if its actually useful for me

[Belloc]

This and alot of other attitudes in the thread are what is wrong with WoW these days. Noone gives a shit about the player next to them or the repercussions of dick move actions

its all me me me, its hard for ME to get gear, I NEED that. Yeah sure its hard to gear your offspec, thats why its an offspec, its something that is different from your main role in the game, and you dont NEED the gear over someone that actuall plays a tank, or a DPS as a main spec, and the drop rate is ultra low on a specific item.

The repercussions arent for you, its for the person you selfishly needed off.

Its past the point of no return, and i realise there is nothing left to do but complain about it, sure. but honestly...i never ninja loot off a role that needs it over me for MS, heck i can remember gearing up my pally for holy OS during Cata, and the Shield that drops off Jaina in end time was on the need list for me to upgrade my blue, i must have run that place around 12 times in a row, saw it drop 3-4 times and got it on the 12th...all because a MS holy pally, or a shaman needed it over me.

Decency goes a long way in life.

Rolling need on an item you intend to use, offspec or not, is not ninjaing.

Also, consider the fact that I have 9 other people depending on me to have a functional offspec set. I'd prefer to never have to DPS, but I have to. There is nothing selfish about my rolling need on offspec gear because I'm doing it to help my raid, not myself.

So, go ahead and rant all you want, but realize that it makes you look childish and selfish.

[Amsden]

In LFD I need for Main and off spec. It's the way it works now, simple as that.

[Darkfriend]

Op was in the wrong. A ninja ONLY occurs when clearly stated loot rules are broken in an organized group. Anything else is within the rules, although often looked down upon by players.

Not to mention, when trying to gear for an OS, especially at the start of an expac, often times tanks, healers, and DPS may need several specs, depending on the comp needed for a fight. Example, our monk has tanked and DPS'ed, and our hpally has DPSed on 2 heal fights. To build on this, my raids progression is more important to me than yours, especially since most people in LFD aren't raiders. We ran dozens of 5 mans for specific pieces of gear. And if I can help a person in my raid get a piece of gear within the rules of the game, I will do so. It's simply in our best interest to do so, and someone else not liking it is not a good reason for me to hold up progression.

That being said, if its for an OS I don't play often (EG, a spec I don't raid as), or some other reason, I'll pass gear if the other person asks nice (and often if they don't.)

Finally, you have no grounds to complain even if the former two were not true. You were a jerk. Ye, I've had people take gear just to be trolls/DE/vendor. Sometimes though, asking nicely or stating "I'm here for x piece of gear does anyone else need" will net you that piece. I've never seen raging do that.

I will agree that the system is flawed as is, but I'm not sure how they could fix it without screwing over people trying to gear off-specs. Oh, and people gearing out their off-specs are often well geared in their main specs, at least when we run LFD.

[Deleted]

had a boomkin steal a str dps trinket from stormstout brewery, i was the only str dps there and he left immediatly after winning it... I mean, there was absolutely no reason for him to take it, its bad for any of his specs and if he rolled need for item level it was completely unnecessary :|

[Darkfriend]

had a boomkin steal a str dps trinket from stormstout brewery, i was the only str dps there and he left immediatly after winning it... I mean, there was absolutely no reason for him to take it, its bad for any of his specs and if he rolled need for item level it was completely unnecessary :|

That's just Blizzard screwing up on what you can roll on, not a flaw in the system as it is designed to be.

[Saffa]

If Blizz allows people to roll need and they do so they are not ninja - they do not cheat or change loot rules to suit themselves. You have no entitlement to anything just because you want it, the game is not designed for YOU. Bug report it or make a suggestion ticket, but raging and needing out of spite is a childish reaction and just more likely to make everyone need when they can, or kick you and then you get no loot :S

[Deleted]

There are several issues related to this. Most importantly Blizzard ruined the Greed option by making it of equal importance to DE. So you gotta need stuff first, then ask questions.

Another thing is that if you are a heal/tank then you are gimping both yourself and the entire queue by going as a dps to have a "right" for dps items.

Lastly, your case is obviously a person who didn't really need anything and may have been just messing with you. Or ninjaing to DE.

[Deleted]

reasons to not let players roll need on offspec:

1. ITS MY GEAR AND I WANT IT NOW

Real reasons to not let players roll need on offspec:
1. I do the heal/tank/damage, so I am supposed to get the accordingly gear.

You are DD and want tank/heal equip? Go tank/heal. A heroic-ready gear is made fast and cheap. This may even reduce queues. I don't see a point in tanking a specific dungeons dozen times, just to get the item I need taken away from a 15k dps fag.

[neghinitza]

I think Blizzard mentioned in a blue post that they wont enforce main spec only rolls in dungeons, so everything is fair game if you need for offspec. Its good manners to ask if the main spec players need the item and pass if they do, but nowadays when you play with random people you don't know and you will probably never meet again you come across all kinds of people.

It happened to me that a healing priest took my hit haste ring even though the hit part is wasted after reforge and it was great for me. So people take a sub par item even though its an upgrade from someone who could have the full use of it. Same goes with spirit cloth going to mages/locks. In the end the best thing is to run dungeons with friends and guildies and avoid random people altogether.

[Deleted]

its all me me me, its hard for ME to get gear, I NEED that.

That's what the mainspec crybabies who claim they're losing gear they never had in the first place sound like.

[S@thi]

It annoys me too.. I hoped they would have fixed this in MoP..