[Megathread] Star Citizen

[kenn9530]

You mention it is nothing like EVE but describe a lot of the same consequences that EVE has in place for pirates. I feel like you are being rather naive about games and player motivations in general.

This is also entirely false. LoL and Counter-Strike for example do not have P2W(Note: Cosmetics that can be bought for real money is not and never had been P2W)

Eve has basic consequences and if star citizen does it right it will promote proper pirate gameplay and not just blowing each other up the second you get a chance, Eve it doesnt really cost much to run your ship and your components dont need maint in which SC will have those mechanics. SC is designing pirate gamelplay to include boarding and stealing ships, if your just in the game to destroy thats not pirate gameplay, pirates are in it for the money, marauding is when you destroy not caring about profits.

Also with p2w i did inculde non official ways so there is always an option to p2w in any game that provides a way for someone to make money.

[Edge-]

DON'T TYPE HIS NAME, THAT IS HOW YOU SUMMON HIM!

I don't know why people treat him seriously. SC haters go to him because he's an "industry person" that's "on their side", ignoring that he's literally just a joke within just about all industry circles, but he's been irrelevant for ages.

[Altrec]

Eve has basic consequences and if star citizen does it right it will promote proper pirate gameplay and not just blowing each other up the second you get a chance, Eve it doesnt really cost much to run your ship and your components dont need maint in which SC will have those mechanics. SC is designing pirate gamelplay to include boarding and stealing ships, if your just in the game to destroy thats not pirate gameplay, pirates are in it for the money, marauding is when you destroy not caring about profits.

Also with p2w i did inculde non official ways so there is always an option to p2w in any game that provides a way for someone to make money.

In EVE the pirates don't just blow up ships, they will also hold your ship ransom until you pay them or if not they then will blow you up, ships can also be stolen through various underhanded means, and ships can be very expensive in EVE and some components do have maintenance/fuel. Adding a boarding and stealing mechanic to the mix like SC is doing is just going to make things like that more tempting. I think you are grossly underestimating what pirate players are going to be doing and how much they will be doing it.

As for the P2W if you are trying to include non official avenues it is no wonder people are disagreeing with you. In a lot of non official "P2W" scenarios people are violating user code of conducts for most games out there and are at a risk of being banned etc., and that is entirely a different discussion from a game company sanctioned P2W purchases that give players an advantage. Time skips are a somewhat grey area in terms of P2W.

[Mukind]

In theory SC should be just a totally revamped version of EVE with proper combat

In practice it's so overly ambitious it will never see release as a seamless world it was advertised as.

There is a reason Action MMO's don't work. WHen you have massive instances and hundreds of players running around things get laggy.

There are some shooters that attempt to use large maps Arma being the most obvious. But that doesn't have all the trappings of an MMO/Space Sim layered on top of it.

If he pulls it off and it plays like a real shooter and does a pretty good attempt at a seamless world. It will be the most impressive engineering feat in gaming history. Having a shooter while having all sorts of random crap you can interact with in the world pinging ht server at the same time.

Fools hope at this point

[MrAnderson]

Why are you linking garbage from DS's blog? Do you want him to come here and start threatening lawsuits? He's a joke and always fucking has been.

That's a old example of the many theories people have made to try and justify the reasoning behind "total collapse" fantasy concerns.

All while ignoring facts like past years of growth in both funding and player engagement.

Ultimately it's just seems another exercise to justify the frustration of following development of a game for so long. People get burned and feel the need to vent or fabricate "theories" to
justify their frustrations and try to appease them somehow.

[Edge-]

That's a old example of the many theories people have made to try and justify the reasoning behind "total collapse" fantasy concerns.

It's a bad one, because Smart has always been garbage and irrelevant.

Also, I never said anything about a "total collapse", and don't have that "fantasy" at all. I hope it comes out with everything promised and is as good as it sounds like it will be. But I'm not entirely sold on that and still have some pretty reasonable concerns about their ability to maintain this level of funding for many more years to come.

All while ignoring facts like past years of growth in both funding and player engagement.

Growth isn't forever. I'm not saying I think funding will dry up immediately/soon, but what are CIG's plans if they do happen? Are there even any plans?

Ultimately it's just seems another exercise to justify the frustration of following development of a game for so long. People get burned and feel the need to vent or fabricate "theories" to justify their frustrations and try to appease them somehow.

That's not a concern for me, especially considering I've worked on games that had 5+ year development cycles and years of delays in the past.

It's a simple question, not an attack on the game/CIG.

[Kyanion]

It's a simple question, not an attack on the game/CIG.

That's just the thing, they treat every discussion point that is against their viewpoint as an attack. It is pretty tiring really.

[MrAnderson]

Question: Let's say funding dries up tomorrow. Literally, all of it. No more crowdfunding dollars.

Sorry but that seemed like a "doomsday prediction" to me.

Also speculating about the future of ANY company without knowing the full picture will always resort to more useless fantasy unless you have inside info from the CEO's and their plan.

The same doomsday theorycrafting made in 2015 and the following years has been prooven blatantly unfounded and rightfully ridiculed.

The facts are that CIG and Star Citizen has been growing every year. Funding keeps growing, the game gets constant updates and becomes more fleshed out and more players join every day.

CIG is actively hiring for many positions.

Those are proven objective facts not just fantasy.

[1001]

They've done very well at milking the whales but even those guys are going to have limits and there's a finite amount of them.

Right now CIG are banking on SQ42, if that flops what is going to happen to SC?



And if it looks like this it is going to flop, seriously this is some super dorky, tired face crap... $250M for this pile of wank.

[kenn9530]

In EVE the pirates don't just blow up ships, they will also hold your ship ransom until you pay them or if not they then will blow you up, ships can also be stolen through various underhanded means, and ships can be very expensive in EVE and some components do have maintenance/fuel. Adding a boarding and stealing mechanic to the mix like SC is doing is just going to make things like that more tempting. I think you are grossly underestimating what pirate players are going to be doing and how much they will be doing it.

As for the P2W if you are trying to include non official avenues it is no wonder people are disagreeing with you. In a lot of non official "P2W" scenarios people are violating user code of conducts for most games out there and are at a risk of being banned etc., and that is entirely a different discussion from a game company sanctioned P2W purchases that give players an advantage. Time skips are a somewhat grey area in terms of P2W.

SC insurance is completely different to eve and will mean players will rather choose the fight option unless they have valuable cargo on board, meaning pirates are more likely to choose targets who have something to lose, also piloting skill comes into SC unlike Eve so unless you have a ship that can at least disable then theres a good chance they can get away, not to mention people having valuable cargo are going to jump away the second someone even shows up on radar.

Also in SC pirate gameplay is more towards being in a group, having certain ships to disable/tow away/salvage, solo pirate gameplay will be much harder to pull off successfully. Having a certain ship is not going to make you the best pirate in the game.

In Eve as a pirate you can easily move through high sec space without too much trouble, time will tell what mechanics will be introduced to make it hard to travel through high sec space.

I want all types of pirate gameplay to be available for whoever wants to be one, but i also want the consequences to be balanced out so it can make the pirates life much harder but have possible higher rewards.

[Edge-]

Sorry but that seemed like a "doomsday prediction" to me.

Except I'm making no predictions, I'm asking a hypothetical. I'm not sure why you're so hyper-sensitive about this, it's not a personal attack against you or the game, dude.

Also speculating about the future of ANY company without knowing the full picture will always resort to more useless fantasy unless you have inside info from the CEO's and their plan.

I'm basing this off of public information regarding their funding as well as the projections/info we've seen on how much they're spending. We don't have insider info, you're right, but these are the kinds of very valid concerns and topics that would normally be covered under standard funding agreements. I don't see what's so bad about expecting them for crowdfunding titles?

Those are proven objective facts not just fantasy.

And if you'll note, I've disputed none of those points.

But I guess we can't even consider the ramifications of that hypothetical because...uh...I honestly don't even know.

[MrAnderson]

Except I'm making no predictions, I'm asking a hypothetical. I'm not sure why you're so hyper-sensitive about this, it's not a personal attack against you or the game, dude.

I'm not sure you think I'm "hyper-sensitive about this", I'm just telling you the same I've said years ago. All that useless "what if fantasy" is a waste of time and can't even be counted as wild guessing. It has so little value that could counter the "what if all money magically evaporated" with "it would be no problem because CIG would win the lottery".

As time has showed year after year, "collapse" theories are nothing but useless theory-crafting nurtured mostly by some haters who spread their whishfull thinking to others to try and create instability in the project by their own personal reasons. It's not based on reason but on damaged emotions and lack of maturity to deal with them.

That's a consequences of having open development. You expose yourself to useless and pointless conjecture from people who besides having no knowledge of the trade whatsoever they miss the full picture along with creating some emotional connectivity with the project that makes them think they matter, when that collapses you get the nutjobs who'll try to find vengeance for their sci-fi nerdy broken heart at all costs.

Forever unsuccessfully year in year out.

They've done very well at milking the whales but even those guys are going to have limits and there's a finite amount of them.

Funding chart prooves otherwise. Funding keeps growing alonng with new players joining in, even disgruntled backers who refunded are buying back in.

Again these are proven facts not doomsday fantasy.

Your desperation goes so far that you abandon all logic, like judging a game success by a promotional screenshot that's not even from the game in question...

And some wonder why we call them haters instead of critics..

[1001]

IFunding chart prooves otherwise. Funding keeps growing alonng with new players joining in, even disgruntled backers who refunded are buying back in.

Again these are proven facts not doomsday fantasy.

Your desperation goes so far that you abandon all logic, like judging a game success by a promotional screenshot that's not even from the game in question...

And some wonder why we call them haters instead of critics..

There's a simple way to recognize that milking whales is the order of the day and that is by the absence of free fly weeks. If newbros were the main source of CIG's income they would be running regular free fly weeks to get people on board, but they don't. They have like, two free fly weeks a year, which says all you should need to know.

If your claims are proven facts then show the proof and list the facts, simply stating it is so does nothing.

There's no desperation here, you are the one in denial, you're the one desperately trying to save CIG's e-honor like a bought and paid for whiteknight, not me

[MrAnderson]

But they dont need free fly weeks to get new players...They get them all year. How many games in development open their games for free for everyone? Most have a high cost of entry along with very controled (NDA) and limited test times.

Star Citizen has had from the beggining a very low price entry point (compared with most crowded alphas) and has a live build since 2013 and ongoing ever since.

Im not defending anything, I'm stating the reality of the project like it is. Not fabricating fantasys or theorycrafting.

If you played the game you would notice the many new players.asking for help in chat. If you read the oficial forum or even the game's reddit you'll see many reports of new players joining in.

There's prooven reports of ex-backers who refunded and who bought in back into the thousands. If you ask anyone in a big Star Citizen Organization they will tell you many stories of people getting burned from following development, becoming jaded and frustrated only to come back after some updates and buy in again.

I understa d that when there's just superficial knowledge of the topic in hand or not enough info there's a natural tendency to fill the gaps with "fantasy".

Now if your bias towards the game is negative you'll tend to fill the gaps with negative spins, and the way around with positivity spins.

In saying that CIG continuous increasing funding and ongoing growth and improovements in the games content and playability Im not defending it, I'm stating simple facts.

If you think that stating facts is being a whiteknight I guess the ones making up facts would be darknights.

[Kyanion]

If you played the game you would notice the many new players.asking for help in chat. If you read the oficial forum or even the game's reddit you'll see many reports of new players joining in.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

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There's prooven reports of ex-backers who refunded and who bought in back into the thousands.

Citation needed.

- - - Updated - - -

If you ask anyone in a big Star Citizen Organization they will tell you many stories of people getting burned from following development, becoming jaded and frustrated only to come back after some updates and buy in again.

Anecdotal x2.

- - - Updated - - -

Now if your bias towards the game is negative you'll tend to fill the gaps with negative spins, and the way around with positivity spins.

Quick, attack the person that had a concern.

- - - Updated - - -

In saying that CIG continuous increasing funding and ongoing growth and improovements in the games content and playability Im not defending it, I'm stating simple facts.

Ooh funding from outside investors that now taint a crowd funded project, fun times! Wow a game that is in alpha/beta is slowly improving while they have the money to do so. So when does the game actually release in a finished build? It has been longer than most MMOs dev cycles, based on a graph you posted that I linked a page or two ago.

[1001]

But they dont need free fly weeks to get new players...They get them all year. How many games in development open their games for free for everyone? Most have a high cost of entry along with very controled (NDA) and limited test times.

More free fly weeks = more press = more signups, surely?
Because what is clear is that they used to offer a lot of free fly weeks in comparison to the current number. The only reason they would cut back is because they don't generate enough paid backers.
The job listings for marketing have been very clear about dealing with current backers as opposed to trying to entice new backers.

Im not defending anything, I'm stating the reality of the project like it is. Not fabricating fantasys or theorycrafting.

Sure you are. If I am supposedly a hater then you are an out and out defender.

If you played the game you would notice the many new players.asking for help in chat. If you read the oficial forum or even the game's reddit you'll see many reports of new players joining in.

I do play on occassion and yes there are new people but that is not the main source of their income, not by a huge degree.
I also visit the subreddit on a daily basis, along with Elite and EVE subreddits. There is the ocassional new player on the subreddit, it's not chocabloc by any measure.

There's prooven reports of ex-backers who refunded and who bought in back into the thousands. If you ask anyone in a big Star Citizen Organization they will tell you many stories of people getting burned from following development, becoming jaded and frustrated only to come back after some updates and buy in again.

A few whales refunded and then bought back in. That Firefly guy who took CIG to court couldn't manage his impulse control and splashed right back in, a bloke on the frontier forums did the same bar going to court.

I understa d that when there's just superficial knowledge of the topic in hand or not enough info there's a natural tendency to fill the gaps with "fantasy".

And here comes the appeal to authority bullcrap. You're completely assuming someone's knowledge of the project.

In saying that CIG continuous increasing funding and ongoing growth and improovements in the games content and playability Im not defending it, I'm stating simple facts.
If you think that stating facts is being a whiteknight I guess the ones making up facts would be darknights.

Sorry man but you are the epitome of a whiteknight, there's no getting around that one!

[Mukind]

Mr Anderson is a pure soul who dreams of a product more ambitious than any other game dev has ever provided being put out by a man known for falling short of his goals on previous projects.

Let us all pray for him

[MrAnderson]

Everything I stated is factual and the info all there for everyone to see. Company still growing strong, funding still going strong, new updates and features being delivered and new players joining in.

There's a constant stream of posts of new players asking for ingame tips or asking if they should buy the game (for anyone asking, if you have to ask you shouldn't.).

Besides that firefly dude who refunded, took CIG to court, lost and then bought again more ships (lol), you have more examples vocal in forums (like the one 1001 mentions) or recently this one who got the courage to came forward on reddit:

I was a backer from the post kick-starter days somewhere around 2013. I followed the project feverishly and devoured every video CIG put out. I miss Eric the wingman and Rob doing wingman's hanger. I had a rear admiral package with a super hornet and upgraded Phoenix. Somewhere around 2016 I started to get jaded about the project. 2.0 was out, but there was nothing to really do, progress seemed to have stalled, and I had little hope they would accomplish much going forward. I sold my Phoenix package on ebay, and refunded my rear admiral account with CIG. I would also make disparaging comments about the project on here or videos. It was immature; I was angry that things seemed to be so far off the rails. That was the last time I played (2.0) and it was my last impression of the project and I completely disengaged.

Recently, I saw a video with some game-play loops and new planets/landing areas. Keep in mind, when I left there wasn't really planetary landings, zones of interest, or anything like that. I decided to download the 3.5.1 release and give it a whirl on my friend's old account. I suppose if you've never left, 3.5 might seem like a shoddy, haphazard release. Having not seen the game in 3 years however had me blown away. I really regret making negative comments like I did and selling my game packages and refunding. I recently bought an account that included a 600i explorer and also tinker on my friend's old phoenix account that he never uses. Having gone through all of the above, I really feel appreciative for what exists now while also still being able to look at things critically (but fairly). Consider this my Mea culpa. I apologize for previously being antagonistic and unreasonably negative. Looking forward to 3.6 and beyond!

source: https://as.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/...ange_of_heart/

Many of the new players who buy a basic package and enjoy what they see end up upgrading from the starter ship to something like the avenger or cutlass, some quickly get sucked in and buy into the thousands in ships not just because "shiny ship" but because they end up realising that the game is much more than just ships and they want to help make this universe to play in.

If the constant facts of success contradict the fantasy for "collapse theories" and other constant drama mongering "concerns" it's only natural that fantasy is the answer for those who want to see negativity in everything.

Meanwhile backers will continue have fun playing the game and enjoyin it's development.





https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/StarCitizen


Oh are they taking too long, struggling to create something for you? Is that painful Odyssey of uncertainty a bit bothersome for you? Well welcome to game development.

[tikcol]

I'm sort of confused though, "funding keeps growing", I’ve did a little quick search on it and the only thing I’ve found about it is a reddit post that uses a excel spreadsheet as source made 3 months ago, however I can’t seem to find the source of the data in the file itself… where the hell does it supposedly come from?

It probably comes from his own experience(bank account). How else is he going to justify to himself probably spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars in something that is yet to prove itself not to be a scam?

[Mukind]

Pure like the driven snow