[Megathread] Star Citizen

[MrAnderson]

And if the game wont be released on certain date, he will release all finance reports publicly.

He never said that. Stop making shit up or own your quotes. If you post whatever shit you like on a public forum expect to be called out on it. If you can't source your shit you're the waste of time which is nothing new to anyone following this thread for more than a couple of pages.

[ManiaCCC]

He never said that. Stop making shit up or own your quotes. If you post whatever shit you like on a public forum expect to be called out on it. If you can't source your shit you're the waste of time which is nothing new to anyone following this thread for more than a couple of pages.

Holy shit, you are dense.

We, the Developer, intend to treat you with the same respect we would give a publisher.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/tos/1
"Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless CIG has not delivered the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date."

So apparently 5 years old jpegs still not delivered few years after estimated date, or SQ42 release date 2014, 2016, 2017 and now beta for 2020 is still not 12 moths after estimated release. I have friend still waiting for his base building ship promised for 2018. Just saying

"In the unlikely event that CIG is not able to deliver the Game, CIG agrees to post an audited cost accounting on its website to fully explain the use of the deposits for the Game Cost. "
Yea, they never said if the game fails to deliver, they will post financial report. But I'll give you that, they did not stop working on the game yet, but it's far cry from "tHeY nEvEr sAiD tHaT", isn't it?

[MrAnderson]

"In the unlikely event that CIG is not able to deliver the Game, CIG agrees to post an audited cost accounting on its website to fully explain the use of the deposits for the Game Cost. "
Yea, they never said if the game fails to deliver, they will post financial report. But I'll give you that, they did not stop working on the game yet, but it's far cry from "tHeY nEvEr sAiD tHaT", isn't it?

It's not the same thing and changes everything.

That twist of words is a known tactic used by smarties and haters to attack the project or the devs and it's always a good reminder for the casual readers to know about.

So thanks for steping up and owning it.

Every old backer was entitled to a refund till 2017. If they didin't ask it till then it's on them.

If the game had stopped being made there would be a point in calling for financials but since it hasn't the point is moot. Like most of bullshit brought up from those who dont play the game.

[ManiaCCC]

It's not the same thing and changes everything.
snip

Moving the goalpost, aren't we?

And no, even old time backers were not automatically refunded. Own experience and experience of my friends. Also refund for product, ship, was denied even after "estimated date for delivery".

Look, I understand you have hard times to acknowledge you were wrong, that's fine. I was not expecting much from you anyway.

[kenn9530]

So lets look at what crowdfunding is.

On Kickstarter, GofundMe, Fig etc when you make your pitch you have a goal in mind, typically an upper amount for your project to be successful. And so when people purchase one of the options on offer they are all pitching in to reach that goal.
When stretch goals are added it is the same thing, they have a target and anyone who has pitched in or pitches in is contributing towards achieving that target and typically reaching a stretch goal target unlocks that feature for everyone that has contributed.

It is a group effort (hence crowd) and there is a specific target in mind.

Star Citizen stopped this style of funding at $65 million. Everything that has been sold since is done in an individualistic manner. They put something in the store and a person buys it or pre-purchases it, end of story. There is no group effort to reach a target and nothing is unlocked for the group.

It is no different that buying things from Amazon or Walmart or any other online store front and they certainly aren't crowdfunding

Doesnt matter if the kickstarter finsihed or not they are still raising money for an ongoing project so its crowdfunded, point in crowdfunding is raising money for a project.

Did they or did they not get outside funding? We both know it happened as it was talked about in this thread for some time. But sure, attack the poster not the message.

Doesnt matter if they get outside funding or not doesnt change the fact that its crowdfunded, many crowdfunded project raise some money before they even start a project. If you run a company are you going to turn down investment in a company i think not.

Buddy, seriously, CR himself told backers he respect them as investors. And if the game wont be released on certain date, he will release all finance reports publicly. So even if you are right, which you are not, CR is still constantly spitting into backer faces no matter how you look at it.

You are cringe as hell with your constant explaining "how things works" and blah blah blah. Fact is, you have no idea.

He never said anything of the sort, all he said was if for some reason they didnt have enough money to complete the game he wanted they would release what they could, they are under no obligation to release anything to do with how the money was spent, or give any more information about the game they already currently give.

[ManiaCCC]

He never said anything of the sort, all he said was if for some reason they didnt have enough money to complete the game he wanted they would release what they could, they are under no obligation to release anything to do with how the money was spent.

He said both of these things. THe only thing I mixed up are refunds, which he promised they will refund anything, if it wont be delivered 12 months after estimated release date(including game) and releasing financial report if they fails to deliver the game and stop working on it - they did not put date on it - that was only thing I remembered wrong.

And while we can't prove he won't release financial report, because they are apparently still working on the game, but we can for sure say he does not treat backers as investors/publisher nor he will refund not delivered content. Their fix was simple, they removed this part from current terms and removed all estimation dates. Perfect, just perfect. I have no idea how you can stand behind this, but you do so I guess your standards are extremely low.

[1001]

Doesnt matter if the kickstarter finsihed or not they are still raising money for an ongoing project so its crowdfunded, point in crowdfunding is raising money for a project.

Says you.

I say it only fits in the crowdfunding moniker by the loosest of interpretations. Even wikipedia says it's raising small amounts of money from a large source of people. Star Citizen stopped being that a long time ago.

If there are norms associated to a term and your thing falls outside those norms it doesn't get to use the term, simple.

[kenn9530]

Says you.

I say it only fits in the crowdfunding moniker by the loosest of interpretations. Even wikipedia says it's raising small amounts of money from a large source of people. Star Citizen stopped being that a long time ago.

If there are norms associated to a term and your thing falls outside those norms it doesn't get to use the term, simple.

Crowdfunding is not depending on the size of donations and most donations would be fairly small anyway, stop trying to force your own definition just to push some sort of agenda.

He said both of these things. THe only thing I mixed up are refunds, which he promised they will refund anything, if it wont be delivered 12 months after estimated release date(including game) and releasing financial report if they fails to deliver the game and stop working on it - they did not put date on it - that was only thing I remembered wrong.

And while we can't prove he won't release financial report, because they are apparently still working on the game, but we can for sure say he does not treat backers as investors/publisher nor he will refund not delivered content. Their fix was simple, they removed this part from current terms and removed all estimation dates. Perfect, just perfect. I have no idea how you can stand behind this, but you do so I guess your standards are extremely low.

Its impossible to treat backers as investors, they dont own anything and have no rights at all to anything to do with the company, if your going to make these claims back it up with proof before hand. They are nowhere near running out of money in the next few years at least, past 2 years has brought in around 130 plus million altogether and running costs are maybe 40 million a year.

CiG release more than enough information about the game more than most companies do so thats more than enough, if your that unhappy about the game just pull out completely and forget about it until its released.

[Ophenia]

What an interesting thread

Crowdfunding or not, it seems crazy that people ever believe this game is going to be released. Why would it ? They make tons of money with a game in Alpha, releasing it means they'd be "forced" to solve bugs and other issues. Here they can create whatever they want at whatever cost, people will still pay, and if the thing doesn't work they have an army to defend them saying "calm down dude, it's an alpha".
Alpha/Beta are only here to justify companies racking money without having to justify any sort of QA, as the game isn't officially released. You have expectations with a Released game. You are supposed to accept buggy or shit experience in Beta and even more in Alpha.

That's like the same thing happening in Warframe, which was in Beta but was never "officially" released.

In my interview with Ford, I asked if we somehow missed the switch to launch, and how the company views the game and why. She replied, “Oh no, it’s in beta.” Well, at least we didn’t miss anything! Would Warframe ever move out of beta? “No,” she said. “Why would we?” What does the label do? Ford noted that many folks already consider the game launched, and pointed out that it only says beta in one place on the site: the open beta agreement. “That’s the only place that we are technically still in beta. Everything else is a pseudo launch.” She continued,

"There’s literally no reason to do it other than the fact that if we say we’re launching people are going to have expectations. And we’re like, well, we like what we’re doing now, and we can continue to have our own launches for specific content types. But if we ever said Warframe was launched as a game it would be a farce for what that term means. So even if we are making a farce of beta right now, it would be a further farce of launch if we use that term."

[ManiaCCC]

Its impossible to treat backers as investors, they dont own anything and have no rights at all to anything to do with the company

Maybe, but he promised it. Also he said it will be the most open development ever. Yet after announcing 3.0 for next month, they went MIA for one year and released like 10% of what was promised 1 year too late. Also whole SQ42 is complete fiasco. Everything was in graybox in 2014, fully playable from start to finish in early 2015, answer the call 2016 than nothing for 2 years, just to announce 2020 beta in 2018, which is supposed to hit servers next quarter, it wont, but they will wait for the last minute and another sale to announce it - as always. When they would be under publisher, they would fired them all on the spot - as they did with freelancer.

There is no transparency in this development. Items on roadmap are added and removed without a word, now everyone believes they are so focused on SQ42, that's why SC development is so slow without them saying it once, including you, and you have audacity to tell me, I am bringing claims without proof? Look at the mirror kid.

[1001]

Crowdfunding is not depending on the size of donations and most donations would be fairly small anyway, stop trying to force your own definition just to push some sort of agenda.

And wikipedia disagrees, I would take their definition over yours because you're not exactly a beacon of truth and logic...

This isn't any sort of agenda, it's just disagreeing with your absurd position. By your logic Elite remains in crowdfunding status because the project is ongoing, like nobody else would ever think that.

[kenn9530]

And wikipedia disagrees, I would take their definition over yours because you're not exactly a beacon of truth and logic...

This isn't any sort of agenda, it's just disagreeing with your absurd position. By your logic Elite remains in crowdfunding status because the project is ongoing, like nobody else would ever think that.

And the wikipedia definition backs it up that CiG are still crowdfunding, why are you constantly lying about things.

Maybe, but he promised it. Also he said it will be the most open development ever. Yet after announcing 3.0 for next month, they went MIA for one year and released like 10% of what was promised 1 year too late. Also whole SQ42 is complete fiasco. Everything was in graybox in 2014, fully playable from start to finish in early 2015, answer the call 2016 than nothing for 2 years, just to announce 2020 beta in 2018, which is supposed to hit servers next quarter, it wont, but they will wait for the last minute and another sale to announce it - as always. When they would be under publisher, they would fired them all on the spot - as they did with freelancer.

There is no transparency in this development. Items on roadmap are added and removed without a word, now everyone believes they are so focused on SQ42, that's why SC development is so slow without them saying it once, including you, and you have audacity to tell me, I am bringing claims without proof? Look at the mirror kid.

if he promised it prove it first, dont just say its true just because, SC has been more open about developement that any other company with constant updates, they are not required to give you every single detail and they dont even have to give as much as they have.

[1001]

What an interesting thread

Crowdfunding or not, it seems crazy that people ever believe this game is going to be released. Why would it ? They make tons of money with a game in Alpha, releasing it means they'd be "forced" to solve bugs and other issues. Here they can create whatever they want at whatever cost, people will still pay, and if the thing doesn't work they have an army to defend them saying "calm down dude, it's an alpha".
Alpha/Beta are only here to justify companies racking money without having to justify any sort of QA, as the game isn't officially released. You have expectations with a Released game. You are supposed to accept buggy or shit experience in Beta and even more in Alpha.

That's like the same thing happening in Warframe, which was in Beta but was never "officially" released.

I think this has been the goal for a long time now, it's their 'get out of jail free' card.

In this interview, and probably in various comments prior, Chris Roberts talks about reaching a point and then just continuing along adding things here and there, not being an alpha or beta but more akin to an eternal early access and then one day it will be done....
He tries to say that is what normal games do but obviously it's different because they have an actual release date. But he doesn't want to be bound by those norms because that means a date and an actual functioning product, a relatively bug free one and a product that contains most of what people were sold. Which lets face it, is never going to be Star Citizen.

- - - Updated - - -

And the wikipedia definition backs it up that CiG are still crowdfunding, why are you constantly lying about things.

Going on then, prove it.

And lay off the projection Kenn. You're the one making these absurd comments that don't hold up under the slightest scrutiny or comparison.

[kenn9530]

Going on then, prove it.

And lay off the projection Kenn. You're the one making these absurd comments that don't hold up under the slightest scrutiny or comparison.

Your the one making stupid claims that SC is not crowdfunding, when it follows the exact definition as the game raises small amounts of money from a large number of people, the whole point in crowdfunding is a different source of financing a project.

Wikipedia even has a spot on highest funded crowdfunded projects with star citizen in it.

[1001]

Your the one making stupid claims that SC is not crowdfunding, when it follows the exact definition as the game raises small amounts of money from a large number of people, the whole point in crowdfunding is a different source of financing a project.

And here comes the projection...

And look at you misrepresenting what they are saying. You argue in such bad faith, it's crazy.

They quite obviously mean a small gross amount from a large number of people, ie $3 million.

[kenn9530]

And here comes the projection...

And look at you misrepresenting what they are saying. You argue in such bad faith, it's crazy.

They quite obviously mean a small gross amount from a large number of people, ie $3 million.

Your the one acting in bad faith claiming things that are simply not true, your just making your own definitions. Amount of money raised doesnt change they still got the money from the same source.

No point in lying and saying SC is not crowdfunded.

[1001]

Your the one acting in bad faith claiming things that are simply not true, your just making your own definitions. Amount of money raised doesnt change they still got the money from the same source.

No point in lying and saying SC is not crowdfunded.

"No U" is rather peurile Kenn.

No one else would think that Elite is still crowdfunding

[kenn9530]

"No U" is rather peurile Kenn.

No one else would think that Elite is still crowdfunding

Who said Elite is still crowdfunded, once a game is released thats the point when a game is not officially crowdfunded and any money is just revenue.

[MrAnderson]

Moving the goalpost, aren't we?

And no, even old time backers were not automatically refunded. Own experience and experience of my friends. Also refund for product, ship, was denied even after "estimated date for delivery".

Look, I understand you have hard times to acknowledge you were wrong, that's fine. I was not expecting much from you anyway.

If you check your quotes you'll notice your the one moving goal posts.

Refunds were given to old backers who contacted the Support team. Then some people started using it for grey market scams so CIG tighthened the process.

People had plenty of time to refund but I guess they were too busy shitposting on forums and reading before acting upoon it.

Still today CIG has a play what you want 14 days refund policy. Which is better than what Steam or Epic will give you.

[ManiaCCC]

If you check your quotes you'll notice your the one moving goal posts.

Refunds were given to old backers who contacted the Support team. Then some people started using it for grey market scams so CIG tighthened the process.

People had plenty of time to refund but I guess they were too busy shitposting on forums and reading before acting upoon it.

Still today CIG has a play what you want 14 days refund policy. Which is better than what Steam or Epic will give you.

I can guarantee you not everyone got refund. I know several guys who did not even when they asked for it. But I guess you never asked for SC refund so how could you know.