[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Yriel]

You clearly have no idea on what vaporware actually is, star citizen has a massive game already to play currently

I mean, it's what, 3 planets in one system, maybe a few stations, i really wouldn't call that "massive"...

[kenn9530]

I mean, it's what, 3 planets in one system, maybe a few stations, i really wouldn't call that "massive"...

Its 3 main planets each has a large city on it to explore, and 10 moons, around 100 flyable ships and a reasonable amount of missions and activities to do, its still a quite massive game just with whats in the alpha, saying its vaporware when we can clearly see what the company has been doing is a little redundant and there is a ton of stuff that we wont see until SQ42 is released.

Im happy for any game to take as long as it takes to become ready and not push it out just because.

[Orange Joe]

I mean, it's what, 3 planets in one system, maybe a few stations, i really wouldn't call that "massive"...

I find it funny you take issue with 1 persons hyperbole but not the other.

[MrAnderson]

I mean, it's what, 3 planets in one system, maybe a few stations, i really wouldn't call that "massive"...

Yet Skyrim, Assassins Creed, GTA5, RDR2 are all considered massive games despite taking place in a tiny portion of one planet.

[Katchii]

Im happy for any game to take as long as it takes to become ready and not push it out just because.

While I get your point, the amount of time and money this is taking, for various reasons, is absolutely ridiculous. Especially considering one of teh backbone structures of the entire thing, the server meshing, not being implemented for so long is...troubling.

I do hope it eventually fully releases, but I'm honestly not holding my breathe with the way things are going. If it happens, it happens. I have no ill will towards this game, but my opinion of their project management skills is that they're pretty terrible.

Yet Skyrim, Assassins Creed, GTA5, RDR2 are all considered massive games despite taking place in a tiny portion of one planet.

And those are all fully released games that have all their features implemented. Star Citizen is neither of those.

Once it's completely released with everything it's supposed to have implemented, THEN you can make those comparisons and sneer at them for being considered "massive" in comparison to Star Citizen. Until then, they have the advantage.

[MrAnderson]

While I get your point, the amount of time and money this is taking, for various reasons, is absolutely ridiculous. Especially considering one of teh backbone structures of the entire thing, the server meshing, not being implemented for so long is...troubling.

I do hope it eventually fully releases, but I'm honestly not holding my breathe with the way things are going. If it happens, it happens. I have no ill will towards this game, but my opinion of their project management skills is that they're pretty terrible.

The amount of time and money is indicative of building such massive and complex games through crowdfunding. The only ones who find it strange are those who aren't paying attention the video-game market or the process of crowdfunding.

And those are all fully released games that have all their features implemented. Star Citizen is neither of those.

Once it's completely released with everything it's supposed to have implemented, THEN you can make those comparisons and sneer at them for being considered "massive" in comparison to Star Citizen. Until then, they have the advantage.

And Star Citizen Alpha is released and doesn't need to have all it's features implemented to be considered a massive game. And nobody is sneering at other games for also being massive but at the idea that you need billions of planets or systems in your game for it to be considered massive.

[Cyclone Jack]

Yet Skyrim, Assassins Creed, GTA5, RDR2 are all considered massive games despite taking place in a tiny portion of one planet.

That's because those games have plenty of content in addition to being a sandbox. SC, on the other hand, is an empty sandbox without any content. There are no gameplay loops, and there is no progression outside of the cash shop, because the foundation of the "game" is barely an infrastructure that has been stagnant for a few years. Adding more ships to fly around an empty void does not constitute adding features or content. I understand that they've been doing a good amount of refining for what they have, and that to have a proper sim like this you do need a huge variety of ships, but *everything* hangs on them getting server meshing in-game and released, and that's been "right around the corner" for years.

[Verdugo]

That's because those games have plenty of content in addition to being a sandbox. SC, on the other hand, is an empty sandbox without any content. There are no gameplay loops, and there is no progression outside of the cash shop, because the foundation of the "game" is barely an infrastructure that has been stagnant for a few years. Adding more ships to fly around an empty void does not constitute adding features or content. I understand that they've been doing a good amount of refining for what they have, and that to have a proper sim like this you do need a huge variety of ships, but *everything* hangs on them getting server meshing in-game and released, and that's been "right around the corner" for years.

Did they try to blame covid for that? That excuse seems to get a free pass everywhere.

[Kyanion]

The amount of time and money is indicative of building such massive and complex games through crowdfunding. The only ones who find it strange are those who aren't paying attention the video-game market or the process of crowdfunding.

I ought to take a picture and frame that one. Feature creep ruined what that game could have been. But hey we'll see where we are in another 6 to 8 months with nothing happening.

[Katchii]

The amount of time and money is indicative of building such massive and complex games through crowdfunding. The only ones who find it strange are those who aren't paying attention the video-game market or the process of crowdfunding.

No, it's far more indicative of a company that's floundering somewhat on how to get what they planned on getting done, done. This isn't about crowdfunding.

Yes, it's massive. Yes, it's unprecedented. Yes, it's groundbreaking new technology. But they have shown several times over that they're inept when it comes to effective project management.

And Star Citizen Alpha is released and doesn't need to have all it's features implemented to be considered a massive game. And nobody is sneering at other games for also being massive but at the idea that you need billions of planets or systems in your game for it to be considered massive.

And "Alpha" isn't fully released. What's your point?

I said FULLY released. Not just "released." I know that there is a version of the game available to play. But if you're going to sit there and tell me it has even remotely close to the full number of features is supposed to have at this point, or is in a fully functional state (considering their server mesh technology isn't implemented yet with no real date in sight), then you're nothing but a shill. It's possible to be both critical and supportive of something. Being nothing BUT supportive, to a zealous degree like you and some other posters seem to do, doesn't help anything.

I'm not bad mouthing the game, just the company making it and their apparent inability to actually finish it. They are doing good work, just not the RIGHT work, IMO considering they don't have one of the literal back bones of the game implemented at this point in the process. That's ridiculous.

I think you and I agree, that the number of planets isn't indicative of how massive a game is, but by how much you can do in it. As an example, Skyrim. Yes it takes place in a small portion of one single planet. But you can go anywhere and do anything within that small space. It's not on rails. Games like Mass Effect might have dozens of planets but you only step foot on tiny, on-rails, sections of them. The scope of what you can do isn't the same.

Honest question, because I haven't played Star Citizen, just kept up somewhat with it's development. Is there as much to do or as many places to explore in SC currently as there are in a game like Skyrim? What SC may or may not have eventually isn't relevant at the moment, because it's not there yet. Based on responses I've seen here already, the answer in a resounding "NOPE."

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Honest question, because I haven't played Star Citizen, just kept up somewhat with it's development. Is there as much to do or as many places to explore in SC currently as there are in a game like Skyrim? What SC may or may not have eventually isn't relevant at the moment, because it's not there yet. Based on responses I've seen here already, the answer in a resounding "NOPE."

• Right now Star Citizen's playable game world is the Stanton System, which consists of four planets (1 of which is a gas giant that is WIP and you can't really visit) and their moons. Each planet has a unique city on it that you can visit, but overall most of the terrain on the planets and moons are barren and unpopulated. Wildlife hasn't been added yet. There is hardly anything outside of the single city on each planet. They're nice for screenshots... and that's it.

• Skyrim has far and away more handcrafted quests than Star Citizen. Skyrim's quests aren't that great IMO, but they're something. Star Citizen, on the other hand, only has... one handcrafted quest, I think? The one where you go to the destroyed space station to investigate insurance fraud. There are a few quest giver NPCs spread out across the Stanton system, but the only give you generic generated quests like a radiant quest, ie go here and kill some generic mob or transport this package to there. No story.

• Sandbox gameplay: Right now Star Citizen is somewhat restrictive, in that if you go near a city or a space station, you enter an "armistice zone" where you can't pull out your guns and kill other people or commit crimes. So that removes the sandbox feeling of gameplay. Armistice zones are supposed to be removed in the future, when perma player death is added, but right now it can feel stale.

• In Skyrim, you can't go 5 feet without bumping into some random encounter or an event with an NPC. Star Citizen's servers can barely handle 50 players, let alone hundreds of NPCs, and they're all spread out across the Stanton system, so you will hardly ever bump into anyone. If you want random encounters, become a criminal. That will place a bounty marker on you that everyone will see - players, and NPC police and bounty hunters, so you will have ships flying in to kill you, which makes the game 10x more interesting IMO.

I like Star Citizen, but it's not a complete game and it desperately needs more, and right now it seems like it is unlikely to get more until the server situation is fixed.

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The game is really fun for your first 30-50 hours... and then once you've visited every place in the Stanton system, and have done the generic missions... and then you realize that's it. There isn't enough content for it to work as a singleplayer experience. The servers are too small, and the presence of armistice zones prevents you from having a great sandbox MMO experience. There is no satisfying long term progression because the progression curve hasn't been developed, so if you want a big ship you'll have to grind cheap missions for hundreds of hours... only for you to have nothing to really fight with using your big ship (and no AI crew to pilot it so you need friends), and you're not inclined to do it anyway because your progress is wiped on the servers in a few months anyway, so why bother.

[MrAnderson]

That's because those games have plenty of content in addition to being a sandbox. SC, on the other hand, is an empty sandbox without any content. There are no gameplay loops, and there is no progression outside of the cash shop, because the foundation of the "game" is barely an infrastructure that has been stagnant for a few years. Adding more ships to fly around an empty void does not constitute adding features or content. I understand that they've been doing a good amount of refining for what they have, and that to have a proper sim like this you do need a huge variety of ships, but *everything* hangs on them getting server meshing in-game and released, and that's been "right around the corner" for years.

All the 130+ playable ship's, weapons and armour gear are content, all the planets, space stations, asteroid belts, cities, trading outposts, derelict ship's, derelict space stations, bunkers, prison and all the activities and quests already in game that go from trading, mining, bounty hunting, cargo delivery, exploration which enables players to earn credits ingame to get better ships,gear,weapons are game loops and therefore content in an already massive gameplay area both in size, quality and variety.

Server meshing is being developed to enable them to have everyone playing in the same online universe without loading screens so just it's turning up the scale of massive to 9000000. Hardly a easy task and expectable it takes a lot of time to figure out. Just like it would take Rockstar if they tried to expand their GTA 5 Online map, which is capped at 30 player, into a bigger experience involving a whole continent with multiple cities for hundreds of thousands of players to play at the same time without loading screens. New technology needs to be developed to allow for it and we can only be thankful that a company is going for it.

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As an example, Skyrim. Yes it takes place in a small portion of one single planet. But you can go anywhere and do anything within that small space. It's not on rails.

Same with Star Citizen but it's in a massive game area.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Same with Star Citizen but it's in a massive game area.

I'd say that overall Skyrim has far more landscape that is interesting to explore. Sure, the 4K auto-generated planet landscapes are a technical marvel, but they aren't meaningful to the player like the valleys of Whiterun Hold populated with Giants and their Mammoths grazing in the fields or roaming Khajit Caravans and such.

[Katchii]

Same with Star Citizen but it's in a massive game area.

Just because there's something there, doesn't mean there's something to do. In Skyrim, there's something to do pretty much everywhere you go. Can the same be said for SC? I've seen mixed reports....mostly between zealots like you and others. The zealots all say it's massive and that you can go anywhere and do anything and ther others say there's a lot of empty space. So which one is it?

I think Val already got this one, though.

I'd say that overall Skyrim has far more landscape that is interesting to explore. Sure, the 4K auto-generated planet landscapes are a technical marvel, but they aren't meaningful to the player like the valleys of Whiterun Hold populated with Giants and their Mammoths grazing in the fields or roaming Khajit Caravans and such.

[MrAnderson]

Just because there's something there, doesn't mean there's something to do. In Skyrim, there's something to do pretty much everywhere you go. Can the same be said for SC? I've seen mixed reports....mostly between zealots like you and others. The zealots all say it's massive and that you can go anywhere and do anything and ther others say there's a lot of empty space. So which one is it?

It's a online sandbox space game, so yeah, it has a lot of space.

• Star Citizen, on the other hand, only has... one handcrafted quest, I think? The one where you go to the destroyed space station to investigate insurance fraud. There are a few quest giver NPCs spread out across the Stanton system, but the only give you generic generated quests like a radiant quest, ie go here and kill some generic mob or transport this package to there. No story.

There's way more hand crafted missions with many being given by NPC's which are tied to reputation and open up more missions with better pays.
The hijack the 890 Jump Ship, the crashed satellite mission given by Clovis, the drug destruction mission given by Tecia Pacheco, the one to intercept a lawfull ship transporting criminals, bunker cleaning by the Hurston guy along with the more typical delivery/hitman quests.

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I'd say that overall Skyrim has far more landscape that is interesting to explore. Sure, the 4K auto-generated planet landscapes are a technical marvel, but they aren't meaningful to the player like the valleys of Whiterun Hold populated with Giants and their Mammoths grazing in the fields or roaming Khajit Caravans and such.

That's just content density and purpose of single-player vs sandbox, in the end, mechanically killing giants or mammoths in Skyrim is the equivalent as flying a ship killing pirates on asteroid belts or cleaning bunkers in FPS mode.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The hijack the 890 Jump Ship

Let's not mislead him.

All of the missions you listed are generic, like radiant quests from Skyrim. They have no story to them and are not handcrafted. They're autogenerated and you can take them as many times as you want. The ONLY story they have are the 30 seconds of listening to the questgiver talk to you "hey, I got this job, go here, do this thing, come back, get money" and that's it. There is no story during the mission or a story to be experienced, as in the insurance fraud investigation.

[Katchii]

It's a online sandbox space game, so yeah, it has a lot of space.

Empty space is not content....

[MrPaladinGuy]

I thought this was an obvious scam at this point

[MrAnderson]

Let's not mislead him.

All of the missions you listed are generic, like radiant quests from Skyrim. They have no story to them and are not handcrafted. They're autogenerated and you can take them as many times as you want. The ONLY story they have are the 30 seconds of listening to the questgiver talk to you "hey, I got this job, go here, do this thing, come back, get money" and that's it. There is no story during the mission or a story to be experienced, as in the insurance fraud investigation.

I'm not misleading anything, those missions are handcrafted and have lore and reputation behind them. Ofc you can repeat them there's no persistency in reputation yet and this is not a single-player story game. You can repeat the Private investigation mission too. That's why you can also interact with the NPC's who give you some missions. It's a sandbox game space game and not a single-player fantasy story game so ofc it can't have the same structure in missions, quests and activities.

Non handcrafted missions are the ones to pick up cargo in some place or dispose drugs/waste, find derelic ship's and crew, which are constantly spawned across several areas of the universe dynamically and where players can compete or cooperate while doing them.

Empty space is not content....

And nobody said otherwise. I dunno why you're so hung on this issue when you don't even know anything about the game.

[Katchii]

And nobody said otherwise. I dunno why you're so hung on this issue when you don't even know anything about the game.

I'm trying to find out if there's as much to do in SC as there are in games like Skyrim, and you bring up how much empty space there was in SC....as some kind of answer to my question, when we both know empty space is not content and doesn't answer the question at all.

If you don't want to answer the question honestly, or at all, that's fine.

At least Val is being honest and helpful (Thank you Val!) That's WAY more than can be said for you.