DREAM Paragon Heroic Mogu'shan Vaults 10 Man World First

[Deleted]

and people that havnt done heroic 3rd boss on 10 man would realize that fight is Fucking nutz tuned compared to 25. its the reason only 1 guild in 10 man is over 3/6 so any 3rd heroic boss kills arnt legit there must easier. :P.

PARAGON is better than anyone else anyways even if they went 10 man give them credit.

Considering that Blood Legion wiped (yes they all died) on the enrage timer and just managed to kill the boss in the same second while Paragon killed the boss 15, yes 15 seconds before enrage with three healers tells me the dps requirements once again is much steeper on 25 man.

I just presented you the facts, now you can go ahead and make asumptions on which mode is harder.

Personally I think that the other 10 man guilds are just that much worse than both the 25 man guilds but ofc also paragon. In the past there were no real good 10 man guild (despite 10 mans being easier). That is also a fact, do you remember noxa? the 25 man guild that came out of nowhere because they picked their 10 best players and destroyed all 10 man guilds but also most 25 man guilds.

[Poppincaps]

Who cares if they did it on 10 man or not? I guarantee you that they are better than everyone here, including myself. Not to mention that they've had many world firsts before, so it's not like this is some random guild getting world first 10 man. This is a guild who dominated 25s as well before MoP.

[Deleted]

The difficulty difference between 25 man 10 man depends on mechanics for the encounter. In a 10 man, if the probability that each player will not fuck up and get themselves killed is 9/10 then 1-(9/10)^10 is the probability of at least one person dying (65%). for 25 man, its (92%) chance, but they get 3 battle resses, so the probability of AT LEAST 3 people dying is (7.01%). Clearly, 25 man is easier to recover from individual deaths. Now, if the ecnounter allows 1 person to kill everyone else in the raid by fucking up, then its the other way around, 25 is much harder.

[Nuckels]

It's harder to manage a 25man but actually killing bosses is harder with 10man.

Minor things like movement have a lot more impact on a 10man.

For example, you get chains on first boss, you have 2 melee 3 ranged.
Whenever a ranged or a healer get's linked to a melee he has to stay near the melee, the melee then again has to follow the boss around thus the ranged has to follow the melee.
This lowers the healing/damage output of the linked ranged class.
If you have 10man and all your 3 healers get linked to your melee you can do the math how much less healing output you'll have.
The chance all 6 healers in a 25man get linked to melee is close to 0%. And this is just 1 example.

You can also not get the jasper dog at all, and with bad rng on 25man you can get almost your whole raid chained.

[fuzzylogic111]

Paragon beat all other 10 man guilds because all other 10 man guilds have NEVER been competitive. I could have told you that Paragon would get world first 10 man the second they announced they would be raiding in 10s. They will also get World first 10 man Empress and 10 man Sha of Fear. 100% guranteed. There is literally no competition for Paragon in 10s.

Still waiting on the real world first.

[yuca247]

Who cares if they did it on 10 man or not? I guarantee you that they are better than everyone here, including myself. Not to mention that they've had many world firsts before, so it's not like this is some random guild getting world first 10 man. This is a guild who dominated 25s as well before MoP.

THis is mmo champion haters gona hate. I bet all of these ignorant fools saying "lololo 10 man get real" have never even stepped into a heroic raid 10 man or 25.

[Christan]

Lol stacking Druids again?

*cough nef*
lol, anyway back to the topic on hand.

amazing job paragon 10m is hard as it is WAY less room for any individual errors.
GG winning the gold.
now to see who gets silver and bronze

honestly i don't see why 10 and 25 firsts aren't just separated, it would make more sense and stop a lot of QQ'ing, granted it wouldn't stop all...some people are inconsolable.

[Deleted]

Paragon beat all other 10 man guilds because all other 10 man guilds have NEVER been competitive. I could have told you that Paragon would get world first 10 man the second they announced they would be raiding in 10s. They will also get World first 10 man Empress and 10 man Sha of Fear. 100% guranteed. There is literally no competition for Paragon in 10s.

Still waiting on the real world first.

agree, and its sad that so meny other 10man guild will take ream/world first from 25man guilds when all know 90% of the fights in 10man is so much easyer, just ppl dont put down the time as serius 25man guilds do. Realy hope blizzard fix that there is a serverfirst 10man and 25man and you cant get both in on guild or somting becouse i still think there should be a race in 10man, but not against 25man or the other way around

[Spiffums]

How many practice runs did they get on the PTR?

[fuzzylogic111]

Coordinating healing for 25 people is far more complex than healing 10.
Bosses in 25 are designed around coordinating more than twice as many raid cooldowns.
Enrages are notoriously harder on 25. Just look at Garaj: Paragon 3 healed it and killed several seconds before enrage, Blood Legion 4 healed it on 25 and killed it just as the enrage went off.

People saying 10s are harder based on personal experience have no idea what heroic 25 man encounters on day one are like.

[Diivil]

Or maybe Paragon did something that allowed them to have 3 healers (wink wink =)). There are 115 guilds stuck on Spiritbreaker and only 1 kill so it can't be that easy.

Video should be out tomorrow or "soon" anyway.

[snookiee]

remember when Paragon killed HC rag 25 World First then dropped to 10s and got that World First? that's skill.

[Uselessrouge]

one guild to show you guys that they will rock no matter if r10 or r25...

and the day blizz will switch to raid 15 and leave the rest.. paragon will still be there to kick ass


good job ^^

[Glittra]

agree, and its sad that so meny other 10man guild will take ream/world first from 25man guilds when all know 90% of the fights in 10man is so much easyer, just ppl dont put down the time as serius 25man guilds do. Realy hope blizzard fix that there is a serverfirst 10man and 25man and you cant get both in on guild or somting becouse i still think there should be a race in 10man, but not against 25man or the other way around

People in 25-man put in more time than 10-man? That is one weird assumption to draw imo. And I would also know where you got your statistics from saying that 90% of all fights are easier on 10-man, even using "so much easier". You clearly have never raided serious in your life, but you love to have opinions about it.
Give them cred, they are the best and people are just jealous a-holes.

[Coldkil]

World first technically has nothing to do with raid size, but only with time. Ergo Dream Paragon have their world first.

Anyway, i think that the "true" raiding way is 25 man - it's only a personal opinion, 10man feels like a slightly bigger heroic istance.

Also lol @ raid composition.

[Samanth]

Anyone watched the Method Stream? Method and BL both got the boss down at the Enrage timer. Method went with 5 Healer comp. But was nice to see that BL pop "BL" at the start of the fight, while Method used it 20Sec before enrage timer.

[Vonderdeath]

grats Dream Paragon, proved that it is the best in any raid size.

[Deleted]

Seeing how many 10-man guilds are in the top 20 progression (1 versus 19 25-man guilds) one can assume that the bosses of this tier so far are at least as hard in 10-man as in 25-man.

Congratulations to the awesome players of DREAM Paragon!

Now rooting for Method for a second place finish (too bad they went horde but unfortunately perfectly logical)!

[Deleted]

Im glad. Even though they are 10man, they didnt use anyone else. just 10 raiders.

hahahahah

they all started with ilvl 380+ this has nothing do to with being a true 10man Guild

[Alphamage]

Grats to Paragon.
10 man raiding is harder than 25. Not much harder but there is a gap.
A players mistake can be forgiven in a 25 man but not in a 10 man. A player under performing in a 25 man is not making a great difference but in a 10 man makes a big one.
On the other hand, it is much easier to find 10 great players than 25. And these 10 Paragon players are making a Dream team...