Jaina and Dalaran in 5.1 [Heavy lore spoilers]

[Florena]

Unfortunately blizzard dropped the ball and never gave us Jaina's perspective on the southern barrens invasion.

[Combatbutler]

The Sunreavers looked the other way while the Horde used a neutral city that has stated it will have nothing to do with the faction war to get troops positioned for attacks on Alliance cities. The Horde betrayed Dalaran's neutrality, and Jaina learns the Sunreavers looked the other way.

That's called digging your own grave.

Indeed but Jaina is doing that now as well, Rommath will most likely rejoice in having the Kirin Tor as his enemies and might unleash the most nastiest magic he knows upon them, not to mention the rest of the council might not agree with her, creating another schism in Dalaran.

[Florena]

I think this will work out for both factions. Alliance get the Kirin Tor back, Horde get the Sunreavers bolstering Silvermoon's magi again.

[Thage]

Indeed but Jaina is doing that now as well, Rommath will most likely rejoice in having the Kirin Tor as his enemies and might unleash the most nastiest magic he knows upon them, not to mention the rest of the council might not agree with her, creating another schism in Dalaran.

Generally speaking, when a nation has its neutrality betrayed, that nation tends to join the enemies of the country that betrayed them--America did it in WW2 after providing tertiary support to the Allies (some American pilots signed on with the RAS and some Navy ships supplied guns to the Allies), despite up until then public opinion being against getting involved in the war directly. Same idea here--Jaina lent tertiary support to the Alliance but also maintained the Kirin Tor's relations with the Horde via the Sunreavers, giving Aethas the benefit of the doubt, but when she learns the Horde abused Dalaran's neutrality to easily attack Darnassus, the Horde pushed her to the Alliance because she could not longer trust the Horde to respect Dalaran as a neutral entity.

[Combatbutler]

I think this will work out for both factions. Alliance get the Kirin Tor back, Horde get the Sunreavers bolstering Silvermoon's magi again.

The Sunreavers were not real essential but true, though the relations between Quel'thalas and Dalaran might be down the drain for good this time.

Generally speaking, when a nation has its neutrality betrayed, that nation tends to join the enemies of the country that betrayed them--America did it in WW2 after providing tertiary support to the Allies (some American pilots signed on with the RAS and some Navy ships supplied guns to the Allies), despite up until then public opinion being against getting involved in the war directly. Same idea here--Jaina lent tertiary support to the Alliance but also maintained the Kirin Tor's relations with the Horde via the Sunreavers, giving Aethas the benefit of the doubt, but when she learns the Horde abused Dalaran's neutrality to easily attack Darnassus, the Horde pushed her to the Alliance because she could not longer trust the Horde to respect Dalaran as a neutral entity.

She is right I never said she wasn't, still this will have dire consequences Silvermoon won't forget this for decades or even centuries to come. And since Dalaran always went to Quel'thalas asking for help concerning dire magical matters, the blood elves might just laugh this time watching with glee as Dalaran suffers.

[Verdugo]

She is right I never said she wasn't, still this will have dire consequences Silvermoon won't forget this for decades or even centuries to come

Unless Blizzard goes "Nah its cool guys, LETS HUG NOW"

[Thage]

She is right I never said she wasn't, still this will have dire consequences Silvermoon won't forget this for decades or even centuries to come. And since Dalaran always went to Quel'thalas asking for help concerning dire magical matters, the blood elves might just laugh this time watching with glee as Dalaran suffers.

Maybe. Lor'themar doesn't seem very enthused with Garrosh's leadership and the way he's handling the Horde, and he brings up old alliances. He might put this whole thing on the backburner long enough to take Garrosh down, and handle things as they come from there.

After all, he's even willing to swallow his pride and/or damn himself if it means his people benefit more than if he didn't.

[Combatbutler]

Unless Blizzard goes "Nah its cool guys, LETS HUG NOW"

Rommath holds a personal grudge against the Kirin tor and it seems Lor'themar joined the club, Aethas will have one as well now, unless they give a very good reason for them to work together I don't see it and Dalaran being overrun by demons won't hardly matter the elves will most likely enjoy the show letting the Kirin tor die, while preparing counter measures.

Maybe. Lor'themar doesn't seem very enthused with Garrosh's leadership and the way he's handling the Horde, and he brings up old alliances. He might put this whole thing on the backburner long enough to take Garrosh down, and handle things as they come from there.

After all, he's even willing to swallow his pride and/or damn himself if it means his people benefit more than if he didn't.

True but this is very personal now, I believe he thinks of her even lower as Sylvanas now and if she won't hand over his people after the war, it seems he will take them by force if necessary.

[Verdugo]

Rommath holds a personal grudge against the Kirin tor and it seems Lor'themar joined the club, Aethas will have one as well now, unless they give a very good reason for them to work together I don't see it and Dalaran being overrun by demons won't hardly matter the elves will most likely enjoy the show letting the Kirin tor die, while preparing counter measures.

Like I said, unless Blizzard says otherwise. Wouldnt be first time where they ignored personality of characters they created.

[Thulvaso]

I think this will work out for both factions. Alliance get the Kirin Tor back, Horde get the Sunreavers bolstering Silvermoon's magi again.

The Kirin Tor are so bad ass though, and so is Dalaran. If Dalaran becomes Alliance only and is treated as an Alliance city then I will be a sad Horde member. I guess this is the kind of reaction Blizzard wants to generate with story hooks like this, and it is working.

[Faroth]

So the Alliance get the Varian High King questline, Dalaran and later they get Turalyon and Alleria back?

Meanwhile the Horde likely loses Garrosh and probably some others in the Orgrimmar raid.

Oh well, as long as the Alliance fanboys are pleased. That's most important after all.

Uh huh, figured this would happen. It doesn't feel fun when everything stacks against you? Welcome to Alliance for the past few years.

However, I wouldn't get too worried just yet. The Horde still has some pretty awesome stuff coming their way.

Blood elves are getting some cool lore involvement
Sylvanas is going to play a role in everything
Rexxar is going to be back too!
Vol'jin is clearly becoming a major player
And Thrall is Horde-only quest giver in 5.1 according to the Reddit chat!

[Florena]

The Kirin Tor are so bad ass though, and so is Dalaran. If Dalaran becomes Alliance only and is treated as an Alliance city then I will be a sad Horde member. I guess this is the kind of reaction Blizzard wants to generate with story hooks like this, and it is working.

They are NOT going to go back to Northrend, which is still set timeline wise in Wrath of the Lich King, and update Dalaran to fit this change. It's still in the same time period as the rest of Northrend. You're not losing anything in game.

---------- Post added 2012-10-13 at 11:34 AM ----------

Uh huh, figured this would happen. It doesn't feel fun when everything stacks against you? Welcome to Alliance for the past few years.

However, I wouldn't get too worried just yet. The Horde still has some pretty awesome stuff coming their way.

Blood elves are getting some cool lore involvement
Sylvanas is going to play a role in everything
Rexxar is going to be back too!
Vol'jin is clearly becoming a major player
And Thrall is Horde-only quest giver in 5.1 according to the Reddit chat!

Yeah. Blood elves are getting some love, Baine and Vol'jin are getting development, Thrall is going to make a horde only role etc. And on the point of Turalyon and Alleria? Who wants to bet that when they come back they'll either A. be neutral or B. Turalyon will be alliance and Alleria Horde with the belfs?

[Faroth]

They are NOT going to go back to Northrend, which is still set timeline wise in Wrath of the Lich King, and update Dalaran to fit this change. It's still in the same time period as the rest of Northrend. You're not losing anything in game.

This is true. If Dalaran were Alliance only, it would only be if they put a version of Dalaran in Pandaria.

[Verdugo]

I'm in agreement with this. It seems so odd that they would give his character so much attention recently only to kill him off. Even if he isn't dead, we may not see him again until 5.2, just because Blizz wants to make us squirm.

Which would make it only better. You expect him to become something big, to be important for the future ofBOOM HEADSHOT, DEAD, SHOCKING, NOONE EXPECTS IT!

[Thage]

Yeah. Blood elves are getting some love, Baine and Vol'jin are getting development, Thrall is going to make a horde only role etc. And on the point of Turalyon and Alleria? Who wants to bet that when they come back they'll either A. be neutral or B. Turalyon will be alliance and Alleria Horde with the belfs?

If anything, Alleria would probably remain Alliance and co-head the Silver Covenant with her sister. While Alleria is proud to be an elf, she's also got a huge chip in her shoulder regarding orcs and I highly doubt she'd be keen on buddying up with the blood elves after learning about the kind of stuff they'd pulled.

As for Turalyon, well, my guess is he'll be Alliance but moderate (as in, willing to cooperate with the Horde in the event of a Legion invasion). Kind of like the Alliance's Baine.

---------- Post added 2012-10-13 at 12:47 PM ----------

Which would make it only better. You expect him to become something big, to be important for the future ofBOOM HEADSHOT, DEAD, SHOCKING, NOONE EXPECTS IT!

Still calling that Anduin dies in 5.1 and in 5.2 Wrathion sends adventurers to get those waters Anduin was looking for to revive him, threatening to pull his support from your faction if you don't.

[Combatbutler]

If anything, Alleria would probably remain Alliance and co-head the Silver Covenant with her sister. While Alleria is proud to be an elf, she's also got a huge chip in her shoulder regarding orcs and I highly doubt she'd be keen on buddying up with the blood elves after learning about the kind of stuff they'd pulled.

Alleria should be neutral, everything she ever did was for Quel'thalas and I really can't see her fighting it. And she has emerald green eyes she would have a hard time in the Alliance probably being insulted quite often by common folk.

Turalyon on the other hand should be firmly Alliance.

[Thage]

Alleria should be neutral, everything she ever did was for Quel'thalas and I really can't see her fighting it.

I would argue she'd feel betrayed that the blood elves have allied with the same orcs (to her perception) that allied with the Amani, razed their forests, and butchered civilians. She lost a brother and an untold number of other family members to the Horde in the novelization of Beyond the Dark Portal, if you'll recall (it's kind of why she had her mini-emotional breakdown once Turalyon got her to explain what the hell was going on in her head that she kept taking on suicide missions and fighting recklessly). Add to it that they once captured a naaru and tried to abuse it for their own gain, and their closest allies being undead who plaguebomb civilian settlements... well... like I said. She might have fought for Quel'Thalas, but it's not the Quel'Thalas she fought for anymore.

[delus]

I think this will work out for both factions. Alliance get the Kirin Tor back, Horde get the Sunreavers bolstering Silvermoon's magi again.

And blood elves are thinking of leaving the horde. The war is supposed to turn against the horde, things won't be equal.

[Combatbutler]

I would argue she'd feel betrayed that the blood elves have allied with the same orcs (to her perception) that allied with the Amani, razed their forests, and butchered civilians. She lost a brother and an untold number of other family members to the Horde in the novelization of Beyond the Dark Portal, if you'll recall (it's kind of why she had her mini-emotional breakdown once Turalyon got her to explain what the hell was going on in her head that she kept taking on suicide missions and fighting recklessly). Add to it that they once captured a naaru and tried to abuse it for their own gain, and their closest allies being undead who plaguebomb civilian settlements... well... like I said. She might have fought for Quel'Thalas, but it's not the Quel'Thalas she fought for anymore.

You have a point there, but most of Quel'thalas actions were necessary after the humans betrayed them, it could go either way, but if she sides with the Alliance she should be well aware of the consequences, and should get the boot being banished like the rest.

[delus]

Who says there will even be conflict between the Alliance and Horde when she returns?