So warriors are too strong but hunters mages and shadowpriest are OK?

[Deleted]

Actually i havent seen the video, but i get your point, that there comes times when either mistakes being made or the setup from DF align with cooldowns "down" from the opposing team (note: humans tend to make mistakes regardless of ... everything - arena revolves around mistakes). My point is, even in 20min games you as a mage had only 1-3 situations were this happens (talking about skilled players). Dont get me wrong, i did say that the POTENTIALL burst is to high in these situations, but also, that it is more luck rather than skill that these happens (if these situations would be influenced only from the Mage, than yes, but actually, no)!

And about defense, well, if you get shat on by 2 melee's in a matter of seconds (no warri) than something is off. But to be precisely, Mages lost almost all _manually_ deff CD's (or get them lowered or combined in one ability - talking about Shields here and Slows/Roots). I think its more of a skillcap (if you played a mage from WOTLK to cata, you know what i mean) problem AND balance problem. Blink for example isnt even used for stuns anymore, because of the danger from 2 melees on you. Dont get me wrong, if the stars align from dispell, position, team comp (BIG etc) the Mage is able to kite. But the point is, it is NOT in your hands anymore. Youre bound to "tank" dmg. You simply cant kite against competent players (just like cata) the only option is to burn through all CDs just to live 20 seconds longer, but then what? Dont get me wrong again, i know this issue isnt about mages alone, its about the state of the arena meta game.

Edit: Watched the scenes - the mistakes in these parts were quite glaring (the druid getting feared after the poly, they should have switched before that point or ccd the druid AND spriest, additionally, they go offensiv rather than going deffensive), but mostly it was the comp that decided things IMHO. Essentially you have 3 strong specs against 1 strong and 2 decent ones.

You can actually watch the entire saga if you want, since they play against the same comp over and over. They lose more than they win, although the other team was cheating, as they were watching/listening to the stream, but the point stands, frost mages can get their set up often and this is a constant threat to the point of maybe having to save all dispels to get rid of Deep Freeze when it comes, but that means eating full CC.
I think it's a nice style though. In my opinion, the only change I'd do to mages is Frost Barrier vs classes/comps without purge being a bit "too much" and frost bomb damage.

of the few arena games i played in mists, i noticed that the force is very strong with mages and their ice block. People die so quickly from high burst that this def cd can decide games easily, it was only in low brackets so far cause i had not the time to play higher, but too see this happen at the "top" too is quite interesting. Also the druid somewhere about 9 mins in the video won't die at all even though he got bursted a lot. Did he copy an ice block? In the interface it looks like that, also i saw his hp bar going from 10% to 100% in less than a second all this while he was cced all the time. spriest/mage/druid seems to be a very strong lineup atm

Yes, the resto druid had Ice Block and there was a moment that he was about to die, he used Displacer Beast and by the moment he re-appeared (due to rupture ticking), he was already at full HP. Okay!

[Resentful]

Are you guys serious? I must have a different game version than you all, it's the only explanation.

No they're as bad but there not getting as much as complains as you warriors are mainly the whole

''Second wind'' thing

[Irishman89]

pally and priests need the nerf everyone else seems fine
i will admit as much as i hate rogues they do need a buff

[Mjskills]

Really I don't see the problem with Warriors except perhaps Second Wind being broken.

In my view, apart from Shadow Priests who are obviously broken in PvP and require a group to take down, Paladins/Retardins are also equally OP and have been OP since 2007.

Paladins have got the longest stun in the game, a plethora of bubbles, shields, lay on hands, various blessings, and recently even got sprint and shadowstep. And all that notwithstanding the fact that they are wearing plate and have OP healing abilities while doing more DPS than a Rogue.

I really don't see Mages being so OP as Paladins. I can solo Mages but to take down a Loladin I need one more DPS and healer.

I dont know what class you play, but i'll assume its warrior..in that case, if you cant take down a paladin "with utilizing all abilities you have" than you have a problem after you get a nerf...all abilities you just mentioned are used in survival mode against your almighty damage, and yet we cant shield against warriors as they can break it..i suggest not whining about our survival abilities, we can't kill warriors without 20 sec burst that usually is survivable with second wind. Ret is weak in pvp damage compared to others, and numbers talk.

[Zavala_451]

And alas ret stays forgotten in the world of PvP. Damage is appalling combined with classes that are crazy atm, makes for another depressing expansion PvP wise

[Klutzington]

As I said before, people who complain about Mages are not at a high rating/have not gotten there. Understanding that Mages are a good PvP class, but not OP is something you understand as you get near 2300 or past it. Then again, most people on MMO-C have never stepped into arena. The majority that have are sub-1800. It isn't surprising seeing how much complaining goes on with Mages being the topic.

---------- Post added 2012-10-14 at 10:48 AM ----------

And alas ret stays forgotten in the world of PvP. Damage is appalling combined with classes that are crazy atm, makes for another depressing expansion PvP wise

If you don't like it you can play another game, bro.

[TJ]

Mage's burst is still bullshit but their control isn't as good as it was.

[Deleted]

mages sucks

[Kaorag]

Mages are easiest to succeed with, which makes them overpowered for anyone except people above 2200 (2%?) yeah..

[kosechi]

Really I don't see the problem with Warriors except perhaps Second Wind being broken.

In my view, apart from Shadow Priests who are obviously broken in PvP and require a group to take down, Paladins/Retardins are also equally OP and have been OP since 2007.

Paladins have got the longest stun in the game, a plethora of bubbles, shields, lay on hands, various blessings, and recently even got sprint and shadowstep. And all that notwithstanding the fact that they are wearing plate and have OP healing abilities while doing more DPS than a Rogue.

I really don't see Mages being so OP as Paladins. I can solo Mages but to take down a Loladin I need one more DPS and healer.

if you are consistently losing to rets as a warrior, it might be time to reevaluate yourself. if you consistently lost to rets in BC, when they were hands down terrible, then you really need to stop playing.

mages are always op, and always need nerfs, people always suggest ways to do it but devs never listen..

the problem with hunters is that removal of minimum range combined with the absurd buffing of BM has rendered them mostly retard proof. hunters have always scaled very very well with skill. skilled hunters are terrifying, unskilled hunters are a free hk. no minimum range means you can't counter that burst with out LoS or some sort of hard cc, which with bestial wrath can be a bit hard.

[Yoshimiko]

Either all classes need to be nerfed to teh area of Wind walker monks, Elemental shammys, and Priest heals - or HP needs to be quintupled or resilience needs to be quintupled, *and* Ww/Ele/Priest(heals)/other classes I'm forgetting need to be buffed to teh same level as Mage, lock, hunters, spriests, and warriors.

If people are able to crit for 200-350k on full resil targets, we really need the base health pools to combat it.

[iwerwe]

Are you guys serious? I must have a different game version than you all, it's the only explanation.

Everyone forget about warlocks? They do overwhelming burst now

And they need a NERF!!

[Yoshimiko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISqZKaiArN0

to those who are wondering what we're talking about.

[iwerwe]

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Edit: Maybe you should watch some high rated arenas ? Then you can see the "insane control and insane mobility" xDDDD

Where the hell did u watch "some high rated arenas" in this season? It's just 2 weeks since S12

And in previous seasons, RMP dominates the arena, only some qqing mages don't know this.

Mages still have OP burst now.

[OMGITSDOT]

As I said before, people who complain about Mages are not at a high rating/have not gotten there. Understanding that Mages are a good PvP class, but not OP is something you understand as you get near 2300 or past it. Then again, most people on MMO-C have never stepped into arena. The majority that have are sub-1800. It isn't surprising seeing how much complaining goes on with Mages being the topic.

This is completely accurate. This is also why "OP" Mages have never really received nerfs. Bad players will always have problems with Mages, similarly to how bad players have historically had problems with Rogues. Blizzard never nerfed them because at higher levels of play they are not a real problem.

[Ilnezhara]

Really I don't see the problem with Warriors except perhaps Second Wind being broken.

In my view, apart from Shadow Priests who are obviously broken in PvP and require a group to take down, Paladins/Retardins are also equally OP and have been OP since 2007.

Paladins have got the longest stun in the game, a plethora of bubbles, shields, lay on hands, various blessings, and recently even got sprint and shadowstep. And all that notwithstanding the fact that they are wearing plate and have OP healing abilities while doing more DPS than a Rogue.

I really don't see Mages being so OP as Paladins. I can solo Mages but to take down a Loladin I need one more DPS and healer.

Yeah, I don't see a problem with warriors either, get two stacks of TfB, pop avatar, be unstoppable while you get your other-2/3 stacks, pop reck + banner + on use trinket and crit someone for 80%+ of their HP with a mortal strike+HS combo.

Seriously, PvP this season is so garbage.

BMs instantly kill anything that's not a shadow priest or warr/druid team (spam enough fears to "outplay" stampede. Gimmick fighting gimmick is ok!... not.) Warriors are the best melee by a head and shoulder above the rest. Their burst is on-par with none except mages and BM hunters (neither or which is melee).

I mean if by warriors being fine you mean "unless they're mentally handicapped they ALWAYS score a kill in their cooldowns unless they misstime it or are playing a shitty comp" then I agree.

Warriors and BM hunters are broken, like S5 DK broken if not worse. This season isn't even the slightest bit enjoyable.

P.S: If a warrior loses to an spriest they need to delete and reroll.

[Mickey58]

Either all classes need to be nerfed to teh area of Wind walker monks, Elemental shammys, and Priest heals - or HP needs to be quintupled or resilience needs to be quintupled, *and* Ww/Ele/Priest(heals)/other classes I'm forgetting need to be buffed to teh same level as Mage, lock, hunters, spriests, and warriors.

If people are able to crit for 200-350k on full resil targets, we really need the base health pools to combat it.

Dunno wtf your smoking but I know my hunter does not hit for 200-350k on any target let alone single target. My mage partner in 2's and 3's does not hit that hard either.

The only place that hunters, mages, spriests, and warriors are OP is 1v1 and 2v2. Well guess what neither of those is a bracket you can obtain a gladiator title in. Hunter and mage burst is no higher %wise than ret was last expansion. Put two dps on the warrior and he/she is dead. Spriests like the others are only OP in suituations where there are only 1-2 targets that they can control at will.

[Yoshimiko]

Dunno wtf your smoking but I know my hunter does not hit for 200-350k on any target let alone single target. My mage partner in 2's and 3's does not hit that hard either.

The only place that hunters, mages, spriests, and warriors are OP is 1v1 and 2v2. Well guess what neither of those is a bracket you can obtain a gladiator title in. Hunter and mage burst is no higher %wise than ret was last expansion. Put two dps on the warrior and he/she is dead. Spriests like the others are only OP in suituations where there are only 1-2 targets that they can control at will.

Warriors and Warlocks are both capable of critting for 200-350k damage. If you watch that link I posted, towards the end, a Warrior globaled a full resil player. 220k+110kish+12k+12k. Sounds fair.

Watch a Spriest rdruid Mage group, you'll see the epitome of OP. They're nearly unkillable, and with very VERY little setup, can global almost anyone. The only thing that's really countering this is groups with warriors or hunters.

And no, put 2 dps on a warrior and he'll kill them outright unless they're one of the classes I listed as being exceptionally powerful. Some classes(like windwalker) have trouble killing an AFK stam stacking resil capped warrior. 15k HPS is kinda high, especially if you include peels, heals, and everything else that happens. Keep in mind half of the classes can't go balls to the walls batshit OP and burst someones HP bar 100-0 in 4 seconds like hunter, or 2 seconds like mage(after frost nova & bomb it takes roughly 2 seconds to 100-0 someone).

Keep in mind, once a warrior has his stacks, he can swap to anyone in the GAME pop all Cds and global them. This isn't fair in any version of the game o.O. I mean Lynx Rush and Devouring plague are OP as hell, but Warrior's CDs are just downright broken.

[Deleted]

The real problem of balancing isnt even mentioned classes, but more so the balance of skillcap.

If only 0,000007 % of the Top player base (only r1) were able to shine as a warrior right now (probably not in nearly 1-shotting, but in superior ways of using said cds), especially with amazing play, then i wouldnt even have a problem with it. But the problem right now is that even the average joe can sky rocket in rating, and that stands for almost all speccs(!). Theres so little difference in playstyles, the rating someones archieved means little to nothing. Its just like Cata all over again. For example, the defense of Mages (in TBC/WOTLK) was almost pure manually - the average joe obtained nothing with this class, but outstanding gameplay resultet in HUGE success, and that stood for almost all speccs (dont get me wrong, there was always some imbalances, but again, theres a reason that the ATR decided to run with patch 3.3.5, think about it ...). Now we have boring, unskillfull stupid decisions to made about "do i pop cds now or should i wait 10sec longer?". To heal as a Disc under pressure (and to support your mates) was a HUGE deal in wotlk. Again, theres a reason Hydra postet in the early days of the ATR a video called "the perfect game". To throw some numbers out, the 600 decisions we have to make in an arena game of 1min are what determines skill, and soooo, if (for example) 200 of them is smash "heroic strike" (or for that matter Frostbomb, Frostbarriere, blink strike, backstab, and so on ...) then something is off. I cant even understand why anyone plays PvP any longer in this game, its a huge joke. But worse the fact that these points arent even mentioned by the player base. It seems less than 0,5% of the game knows what "skill" means.

Edit1: tl;dr

This game is shit.

[Itisamuh]

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Edit: Maybe you should watch some high rated arenas ? Then you can see the "insane control and insane mobility" xDDDD

After watching Woundman go from full health to dead in a single shatter combo, I would say your point is invalid. Mages still need nerfed, but to be fair, everything is a mess right now.