Fire Mage Guide

[bcc]

So I got the [Fissure-Split Shoulderwraps] but I have the [Mantle of the Burning Scroll] +2 so just by looking at the stats I get more of everthing but mastery and lose 4 piece bonus so what I'm asking is it worth losing 4 piece bonus just for more stats?



I have put in stats there just to compare.

Absolutely. Fire t14 4 piece is 100% useless.

[Squinty]

That is what I was thinking

[sonataa]

Well it pretty much came down to:

The combination of:
Flame Caster's Burning Crown + Tier Chest > Tier Helm + Zandalari Robes of the Final Rite

I did the math a few weeks ago, but can't find it now. You're welcome to check it and let me know if you come up with a different conclusion. If I remember correctly:
Flame Caster's Burning Crown + Tier Chest > Tier Helm + Robes of Nova as well.... but by a very very small margin.

Wouldnt Robes of Mutagenic Blood + Tier Helm come out on top, haste crit + hit haste->crit, where as tier chest is hit mastery->crit, and helm is haste crit?

[Deleted]

Yeah sonataa that is what i was thinking as well.
Windry your math from a few weeks ago are they relying on the stat weights from SimC builds from back then? as i think simc was a bit skewed and might still be.

[mrgreenthump]

Yeah sonataa that is what i was thinking as well.
Windry your math from a few weeks ago are they relying on the stat weights from SimC builds from back then? as i think simc was a bit skewed and might still be.

So lets see the difference, this is assuming 80 int and 160 crit on reds. With tier chest and offpiece helm.. you gain 20 crit, 80 int, 633 hit, 633 mastery and loose 1120 haste.. Now this comes down to value of haste and mastery and to which stat we free with hit, if we free haste with hit, then its even pointless to consider anything other than offset helm. Even if hit frees mastery its 80 int, 20 crit, 1266 mastery vs 1120 haste and thats a really close call.

[Alphamage]

Now that with even lower Pyroblast damage after the 10% nerf I get even lower Ignites than before so Combustions are weak most of the times and I struggle to build a good one.
My concern is about the Glyph of Combustion. Is it really needed now or it affects bad Fire dps? I am thinking that it may be best and a dps boost to use Combustion more often as a dot instead of a dmg cd now as Ignite dmg is rarely good enough.

[Deleted]

Have anyone done some theory crafting on the trinkets? How good is Unerring Vision of Lei Shen for fire? Looking at askmrrobot.com, they say its the BiS trinket, but I'm sceptical. Too RNG based if you ask me.

Also, according to askmrrobot, Cha-ye trinket is shit. WHat? Personally, I thought Wushoolay and Cha-ye would be BiS.

[Deleted]

Absolutely. Fire t14 4 piece is 100% useless.

can anybody explain to me why the t14 4piece is worthless for fire?

20% cd means for glyphed combust (90seks cd) u can use combust once more per fight if the fight is longer than 6mins (if ideal use of combust) which is a dps gain.

what did i not get?

[mrgreenthump]

can anybody explain to me why the t14 4piece is worthless for fire?

20% cd means for glyphed combust (90seks cd) u can use combust once more per fight if the fight is longer than 6mins (if ideal use of combust) which is a dps gain.

what did i not get?

It makes combustion not line up with AT and PoM. Effectively nullifying the benefit and you will have to use haste and mastery gear instead of crit gear which turns out is the worst choice possible atm on live.

[Virolykana]

Tbh, now after patch, u se how stupid blizzard is for totaly killing the viability for even playing fire, i mean okey, nerf, but seriusly killing the entire spec... wtf

[Zoopercat]

Hey I'm from Ask Mr. Robot, a few of you probably recognize me by now. I saw the questions aqacia had about the trinkets. First, I want to share this blog post, where I explain how we handle trinkets. When we rank each trinket for your character, we take your character's stats into account, which makes a difference for trinkets like the unerring vision.

However, that all being said, I'm hoping to get some reality checks from you mages to make sure nothing wonky is going on with the trinkets. Here's our trinket pages that lists the average values of the procs: arcane, fire, frost.

Aqacia, if the unerring vision is really high and the cha-ye is low, I'm betting you have a relatively low crit rate. The unerring vision is more valuable with the less crit you have, since it grants you more crit on procs. The cha-ye is more valuable as you get more crit because it procs more often.

[Rowenpyre]

A quick question, Has anyone tried using Scorch for the spam spell instead of Fireball? Its cast time is much shorter and crits at least as mush as Fireball.

I have only done rudimentary testing to this point and don't really have an answer, regarding whether or not the extra crit chances and the corresponding crits would make up for the dps loss from this switch.

For me, Ilevel 490, Scorch crits about 2% more then Fireball and in the 2 minute time frame of my testing got off 50 Scorches at 42.1% crit vs Fireball 35 at 40.9%

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Methusula]

A quick question, Has anyone tried using Scorch for the spam spell instead of Fireball? Its cast time is much shorter and crits at least as mush as Fireball.

I have only done rudimentary testing to this point and don't really have an answer, regarding whether or not the extra crit chances and the corresponding crits would make up for the dps loss from this switch.

For me, Ilevel 490, Scorch crits about 2% more then Fireball and in the 2 minute time frame of my testing got off 50 Scorches at 42.1% crit vs Fireball 35 at 40.9%

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Why is it you think Scorch crits more often than Fireball? Your sample size is WAY too small to come to any conclusion whatsoever. If you had 10,000 casts of each, and the disparity was still there, you may be on to something. Although, I would imagine you would need more than 2% additional crit for it to overtake Fireball as a main nuke.

You have to remember that a large portion of our DSP comes from Ignite. Ignites from Scorch are a lot smaller than Fireball, so even if the damage from the nuke itself was higher DPS, the Ignite damage would be lower.

[cockaroo]

Can someone explain to me how to use inferno blast correctly? I have been using it when I get a heating up proc, in order to load a pyroblast, and then I wait until I have both a pyro proc and a heating up proc before using pyroblast, since it will proc another pyro if it crits with a heating up.

When fireball is cast or nether tempest is refreshed, many times the heating up proc vanishes. This is problematic since I am usually spamming fireball right before I line the procs up for an Alter time. Many times my heating up proc will fall off right before I alter time, which reduces my chance to proc multiple pyros in a row.

Also, when I have a long range on a boss like magaera, the pyroblasts are taking forever to get to the boss, so I don't know if I have extra procs or not until it is too late. Many times I will cancel alter time macro, and right when I do, I get a proc, but it goes to waste.

So I'm trying to figure out the tricks on how to deal with this and what to do to maximize dps. If anyone can help me with these nuances, I would be very thankful.

[Rowenpyre]

Why is it you think Scorch crits more often than Fireball? Your sample size is WAY too small to come to any conclusion whatsoever. If you had 10,000 casts of each, and the disparity was still there, you may be on to something. Although, I would imagine you would need more than 2% additional crit for it to overtake Fireball as a main nuke.

You have to remember that a large portion of our DSP comes from Ignite. Ignites from Scorch are a lot smaller than Fireball, so even if the damage from the nuke itself was higher DPS, the Ignite damage would be lower.

Totally agree the sample size is way to small for a real scientific analysis. I was not very clear in my presentation of this as a theory. I was looking for anyone who may have tested this theory.

The 2% crit difference is neglegible at best. However the cast time differences makes it possible to calculate the number of extra casts for scorch with some accuracey. The ratio of 10 scorches to 7 Fireballs should be reasonably stable.

I can tell you that I simmed this test Fireball vs Scorch as the main nuke in SimCraft 52-2 and Fireball won by 12k dps. However, without knowing the internal calcs involved with the Sim Craft software it is difficult to say what caused this difference. That and I have not had time to even look at the data.

Your comment regading ignite size is well taken. Smaller ignites would be a strong deterrant and may be the entie reason why this would not work.

I apologize for the rambling nature of ths post, it is early here.

I will close by adding this is not a new idea, there have been Fire Mages who swore by the use of Scorch as a main nuke in prior expansion. I was not one of them, just for the record.

Your input is apprecated, please feel free to comment.

[Deleted]

I will close by adding this is not a new idea, there have been Fire Mages who swore by the use of Scorch as a main nuke in prior expansion.

They did that because you could keep rolling ignite, Ie if you kept getting a crit before your ignite expired you would refresh it and add the new crit to the last total ignite pool, they used scorch because it ensured getting a crit before the current ignite fell off. so after 4-5 min minutes of spamming scorch your ignite would tick for insane amounts of damage. This is not the case any more as each application of ignite only last 4 seconds while they are still added up while running together each portion will fall off within 4 seconds of its application. This is not a 100% accurate account for how ignite works as i cant be bothered with looking it up, but its pretty close, and have been discussed heavily during some of the 23 pages in this thread or else were on this mage forum(use search function)

[Squinty]

Is this still unchanged? When using AskMrRobot.

[Deleted]

Is this still unchanged? When using AskMrRobot.

Your question being ?

AMR stats weight are almost always right, but if you want more precise stats weight, or if you're going for "another version" of a spec (e.g Mastery vs Haste in arcane 5.1), you sometimes have to change them manually.

[Deleted]

A couple of questions. Im currently at 503 ilvl with 32.68% crit self buffed (inc flask/food), with kings it should be a little bit more. Do you guys think thats enough for fire to be better than frost in ToT? Im not sure if i should just wait for a few more upgrades before switching to fire. With CM that should give me 42.9% crit on fireball and pyro(-3%? for crit supression from bosses) so 40% roughly. Is that enough?

[spaace]

I haven't ran SimC with my toon yet.. still just about the same gear as I did about 2 months ago.

Once I start to get some 522s I'll have to fish around for stat-weights and stuff...

as far as I know. 12.55% haste is still an ideal soft-cap...
(in truth, the way blizzard has done things.. as long as you have critical strike on every piece, you can just "makeshift" your haste/mastery)