The Problem of GW2 PvE

[Fencers]

Knight's prefix are not stereotypically "knight" attributes. It's 2:1 offensive stats, closer in line to archetypical Fighter attributes.

Oddly enough, Soldier's & Cleric's prefixes are classically a knight attributes. Allowing for the knight archetype to mingle with Templar/Paladin sub-jobs. Natch.

The Guild Wars series and Arena.net have always had terrible nomenclature from items to skill and tooltips. /Cry of Frustration

[Durzlla]

Knight's prefix are not stereotypically "knight" attributes. It's 2:1 offensive stats, closer in line to archetypical Fighter attributes.

Oddly enough, Soldier's & Cleric's prefixes are classically a knight attributes. Allowing for the knight archetype to mingle with Templar/Paladin sub-jobs. Natch.

The Guild Wars series and Arena.net have always had terrible nomenclature from items to skill and tooltips. /Cry of Frustration

Knights for very well, they protected the people, and were very well trained in combat, that's why toughness is the major stat and why they have both power AND precision, and then soldier fits a soldier because a good soldier needs to be capable of killing the enemy without dying themselves.

And as I said knights protected the citizens, which is why it doesn't give them vitality because it makes the mobs focus them more (trust me I ran knights for a while and mobs will HATE you) which means you, the well trained knight are dealing with the enemies and keeping them from killing your citizens (the rest of the group).

PS: am I the only one baffledorfed that Magis gives healing as the major followed by vitality and precision? I mean seriously lol?

[Fencers]

That all seems like your own BS rationale, Durz. XD

[Arrowstormen]

Are you talking about being the big tanky hero now?

Because I find anyone who goes melee to be a brave knight.

[Lolsteak]

It was my understanding that if you wanted to gear power, toughness and vit you just go ahead and do so. Besides, these stats are important for PvP and GW2 has a huge PvP part and you might even consider GW2 a rather PvP than PvE oriented game (-_-). That said having to craft/buy dungeon and pvp gear is for most people just too expensive.

So, my suggestion would be to drop the thought that GW2 will ever be a min/max'ers game and just try to achieve your personal record. Why is there this incredible urge to differentiate from others in an online game? And if it is so important to you, GW2 is probably just not the right game for you. This last line never gets old. But it's true and has been said many times: GW2 has other strengths than showing everybody how much one achieved.

That's just not true, you can buy a full set of level 80 gear in 3 raritys at varying prices

[Durzlla]

That all seems like your own BS rationale, Durz. XD

Lol but you have to admit my rationale makes it work!!

[A Challenger!]

LOL, you really think my goal was to actually influence Anet through the MMO-C forums?? Please, give me some credit lol.

All I wanted was to make sure was I thought was true was actually true, and I can say I don't regret making that thread, I learned some stuffs that might be useful to me in the future hopefully!

Also you never know, maybe one of those guys at Anet actually browse the MMO-C forums from time to time, small feedback (even at the wrong place) is better than no feedback, ponder it for a while!

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said they ArenaNet employees didn't possibly browse this forum, I said if you think posting here makes a drop in the pond, compared to their actual forums, you're wrong.

I also never said your goal was to influence anything, I just said from the start you have been very antagonistic towards the game based all upon your opinions. This entire thread, at first, seemed like one terribly thought out troll thread. You started this thread with your worst foot forward, and looked as if you were more inclined to go on and on about the things you disliked about Guild Wars 2, with little to no constructive criticism.

You learned things? Great. Go post about it on your blog.

No need to talk about GW2 PvE. This is just pure garbage. If anyone want see great dungeons experience go play Rift.

I.... Seriously? Guild Wars 2 PvE needs polishing, yes, but garbage? That is a stretch. The same could be said for Rifts PvE in comparison to World of Warcraft. You just create a never ending spiral with that sort of argument.

[ControlBlue]

Knights for very well, they protected the people, and were very well trained in combat, that's why toughness is the major stat and why they have both power AND precision, and then soldier fits a soldier because a good soldier needs to be capable of killing the enemy without dying themselves.

And as I said knights protected the citizens, which is why it doesn't give them vitality because it makes the mobs focus them more (trust me I ran knights for a while and mobs will HATE you) which means you, the well trained knight are dealing with the enemies and keeping them from killing your citizens (the rest of the group).

PS: am I the only one baffledorfed that Magis gives healing as the major followed by vitality and precision? I mean seriously lol?

Knight/Defenders are also known for their vitality :P, unfortunately this IS a trait of the archetype, not my fault if you don't have enough of a gamer culture to know that!

Other than that, I would hardly call being able to tank for a few seconds and then go back to kiting as being actual has suiting the archetype. This ask for a way more reduced need to kite and the ability to actually be able to stay in the enemy face, and for that you need Vitality :P

Remember that little sentence in my previous post saying "and proceed to fail"?.... Maybe you should have pondered it for a bit before replying.

[Durzlla]

Knight/Defenders are also known for their vitality :P, unfortunately this IS a trait of the archetype, not my fault if you don't have enough of a gamer culture to know that!

Other than that, I would hardly call being able to tank for a few seconds and then go back to kiting as being actual has suiting the archetype. This ask for a way more reduced need to kite and the ability to actually be able to stay in the enemy face, and for that you need Vitality :P

Remember that little sentence in my previous post saying "and proceed to fail"?.... Maybe you should have pondered it for a bit before replying.

Yeah go for clerics then, I can't proimise you'll piss off as many enemies, but that's what I run on my ranger and I don't leave Melee range unless I absolutely HAVE to, in other words he spawns a bunch of rings of death underneath him, or does a nasty multi-hit PbAoE, and this is coming from a ranger, god knows how long you could stay in the fray if you were a fully tanked out guardian or warrior...

And the only reason you'd have to back out for knights is because knights pisses off EVERY enemy (thus being a true "tank") but having no healer.... You can only last so long, you know... Like the basic tank archetype...

[ControlBlue]

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said they ArenaNet employees didn't possibly browse this forum, I said if you think posting here makes a drop in the pond, compared to their actual forums, you're wrong.

I also never said your goal was to influence anything, I just said from the start you have been very antagonistic towards the game based all upon your opinions. This entire thread, at first, seemed like one terribly thought out troll thread. You started this thread with your worst foot forward, and looked as if you were more inclined to go on and on about the things you disliked about Guild Wars 2, with little to no constructive criticism.

You learned things? Great. Go post about it on your blog.

And that's EXACTLY why we have a problem, YOU think that anyone that talk bad about the game is in to defame it?

--> There was a problem with GW2 PvE, especially <--, through all the complaining I saw and my own reasoning I came to the conclusion that there was a problem and I started this thread in hope to discuss it with other people and share my reasoning and observations.

The fact that Anet proceeded to create a greater PvE experience through the Fractals prove that they knew that there was a problem with their instanced PvE. The fact that they WILL redo the dungeons further prove that the design of those dungeons was flawed and this is something that has been discussed in this thread and largely agreed upon!
I trust that with their dedicated team they will be able to make better dungeons. So this one more step into making GW2 the best MMO out there for the maximum of people.

NOW there is one more problem in my opinion and this is the thing I evoked through the Tank archetype example. The random aggro and the impossibility and the lack of roles in all PvE not just instanced, and the impossibility for several archetypes to exist, especially when compared to a game like Rift that offers you plenty of souls/classes/specs to create the character with the playstyle you like.

The combat could also be included in this as right now it feels really spammy and it seems like your abilities don't do anything significant. The utilities are lacking some oomph, the traits don't offer enough to easily differentiate yourself from others (you gain some effects that can be seen from time to time, nothing truly defining and easily recognizable).

I think those are all things they could work on to make the game a more serious opponent to the big bad in the room.

[InfiniteRetro]

i remember the days, not too long ago, being heckled for all the things i see people complain about the game on every forum known to man. "he's a troll blah blah" etc and now look. game must be bleeding players for them to introduce progression to try and win the mmo grinders.

[barackopala]

i remember the days, not too long ago, being heckled for all the things i see people complain about the game on every forum known to man. "he's a troll blah blah" etc and now look. game must be bleeding players for them to introduce progression to try and win the mmo grinders.

You are a troll :3.

And you are not posting productively. If you think someone is trolling, report and move on. Posts like this only serve to de-rail any discussion going on in a thread. Infracted. -Edge

[InfiniteRetro]

You are a troll :3.

pointing out things that actually have come to pass isnt trolling. lots of people cry troll because theres too much sand around their head at the time.

[barackopala]

pointing out things that actually have come to pass isnt trolling. lots of people cry troll because theres too much sand around their head at the time.

Just read the reddit ama mon'.

[InfiniteRetro]

Just read the reddit ama mon'.

i did. lots of well thought out PR dribble. "oh we meant to have this in the game since launch' LOL yes, and the earth's core is made of cheese.

[nevermore]

NOW there is one more problem in my opinion and this is the thing I evoked through the Tank archetype example. The random aggro and the impossibility and the lack of roles in all PvE not just instanced, and the impossibility for several archetypes to exist, especially when compared to a game like Rift that offers you plenty of souls/classes/specs to create the character with the playstyle you like.

The combat could also be included in this as right now it feels really spammy and it seems like your abilities don't do anything significant. The utilities are lacking some oomph, the traits don't offer enough to easily differentiate yourself from others (you gain some effects that can be seen from time to time, nothing truly defining and easily recognizable).

These are things I tend to dislike in GW2. I could pretty much swap all my traits around and I would barely notice. (of course I would notice, but I expect a lot more from my specialisations)

That, and aggro. It's just dumb. I know we can't have tanks because that goes against the design, but this free for all RNG aggro (yes, I know there are a lot of factors determining it, but still) is annoying.
Yesterday I had a mob in AC exp chase me around for a solid minute, it just totally fixated on me regardless of what me or the rest of the group did. Dafuq.

[Durzlla]

These are things I tend to dislike in GW2. I could pretty much swap all my traits around and I would barely notice. (of course I would notice, but I expect a lot more from my specialisations)

That, and aggro. It's just dumb. I know we can't have tanks because that goes against the design, but this free for all RNG aggro (yes, I know there are a lot of factors determining it, but still) is annoying.
Yesterday I had a mob in AC exp chase me around for a solid minute, it just totally fixated on me regardless of what me or the rest of the group did. Dafuq.

Knock down, launch, knock back, stealth, stun, daze ALL good ways to drop Agro (assuming you aren't in Melee range when the mob recovers), also stack vitality, most mobs are put off by large health pools.

If you're trying to avoid mob focus, have a lot of health, don't do much damage, stand far away, stand near ONE other player and make sure at least one person is in Melee range, boom you have instantly become the lowest priority target on the mobs Radar.

[Jibjub]

I personally find the 1-5 abilities a serious issue. I feel like many of them are too "utility" based, when you already get to choose 3 utility abilities in the 7-9 slots. I would like to see the 1-5 more damage oriented (or depending on weapon, defense / support / healy) that synergize with each other more. It would be more of a hybrid setup ... not a strict rotation but a little more useful in all combat situations ... I almost feel like I have to choose offensive utilities because my weapon abilities are already way to utility-geared.

I also find it interesting that the abilities are tied to weapon types ... which kind of goes against the "play how you want" design and emphasis on aesthetics. If I want to go dagger / dagger because I think it's cool, I can't because it might not fit my play style ... the weapon is a big part of the "look" and the abilities really handcuff you in that regard. Just curious, is all.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 04:33 PM ----------

(I would also keep lower CDs on most of the 1-5 abilities)

[Durzlla]

I personally find the 1-5 abilities a serious issue. I feel like many of them are too "utility" based, when you already get to choose 3 utility abilities in the 7-9 slots. I would like to see the 1-5 more damage oriented (or depending on weapon, defense / support / healy) that synergize with each other more. It would be more of a hybrid setup ... not a strict rotation but a little more useful in all combat situations ... I almost feel like I have to choose offensive utilities because my weapon abilities are already way to utility-geared.

I also find it interesting that the abilities are tied to weapon types ... which kind of goes against the "play how you want" design and emphasis on aesthetics. If I want to go dagger / dagger because I think it's cool, I can't because it might not fit my play style ... the weapon is a big part of the "look" and the abilities really handcuff you in that regard. Just curious, is all.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 04:33 PM ----------

(I would also keep lower CDs on most of the 1-5 abilities)

Ok I agree and disagree heavily with this post...

Agree:
1) I think we should have more options for the weapons, make say like 5 abilities to choose from (auto attack not included) for main handers, 8 for two handers and lets say 6 for off handers to pick from and slot how we want, still keep up with the theme for each weapon, IE focus is defensive, staff is aoe etc but give us more choice

2) some weapons just don't synergies with their own skills (ranger greatsword comes to mind).

Disagree:

1) under no circumstances should we get fully weapon aesthetic freedom, it always bugged the crap out of me when I'd use a fucking mace an would rely on bleeding people to death, I mean are you fuckin kidding me? In what world does the crushing weapon get used to BLEED someone as its primary damage?

2) not every weapon needs synergy, a bow for example should be built around a shot for every occasion IE, I should be able to shoot an arrow through your thigh to stop you from running away/closing the gap and then continue to pump arrows into your chest, in no world do you combo shots more then "I shoot him in the leg to make him an easier target and then shoot him in the head to end it!" Same could go for magical weapons an the guns, however the magical weapons should have -some- choice in the matter.

3) Just because a weapon has a lot of utilitu doesn't mean it doesn't do damage, the mace is a prime example.

[ControlBlue]

Ok I agree and disagree heavily with this post...

Agree:
1) I think we should have more options for the weapons, make say like 5 abilities to choose from (auto attack not included) for main handers, 8 for two handers and lets say 6 for off handers to pick from and slot how we want, still keep up with the theme for each weapon, IE focus is defensive, staff is aoe etc but give us more choice

That's a legit good idea!

1) under no circumstances should we get fully weapon aesthetic freedom, it always bugged the crap out of me when I'd use a fucking mace an would rely on bleeding people to death, I mean are you fuckin kidding me? In what world does the crushing weapon get used to BLEED someone as its primary damage?

I can agree with that, you still want the weapon to stick to what it is supposed to do!

For the rest, I think he meant to say that he actually want less DPS abilities with a small coat of utility on it, instead having abilities that are properly labeled as DPS, defense, support, control, ect... This would enable you to further customize your character has defensive, or even DPS, and not force you to just be a glorified DPS with some utility.