The Problem of GW2 PvE

[VibrantViolet]

That's probably why you spend half the dungeon downed... I run with a static group and we hardly ever go down, let alone die.

I think the design is close to perfect: good groups clear a dungeon within 40 minutes, earn rewards and earn some coin, bad groups spend 3 hours trying and end up with an empty coin purse.

I do get that others might like the traditional mmo pve style though. GW2 requires constant activity and can be demanding. Trinity games allow you to just stand there spamming 3 buttons while watching youtube. Fun for some, but it bored me to death.

As far as the dungeon's success tells me, many players share my opinion.

I run dungeons with the same guild group, and we always crush it. We can do AC in like an hour. I'm talking all paths, same with CoF. We are starting to practice on TA now. We can get through all paths, but we are working on getting through faster. A lot of people also run dungeons with bad gear and bad builds. What I mean by bad gear is gear without any vitality/toughness, and by bad builds I mean completely glass canon. We had someone with us running a glass canon build, and all MF gear. They died, a lot....

---------- Post added 2012-10-29 at 04:54 PM ----------

that second part is complete rubbish. Sure I will agree that some weak trash mobs will allow you to do this but some mobs stack fury and if you try autoattacking them they will eventually one-shot you. Also some area's (dynamic events) work on a timer or a respawn timer so if you don't maximise your dps then you will quickly be overrun or the timer will run out and you will fail.

honestly sometimes I wonder who writes these quotes, have they played the game?

Let's not forget about the encounters/bosses that summon more and more adds the longer you take to complete it. I'm looking at you, graveling mound....

[SamR]

I do get that others might like the traditional mmo pve style though. GW2 requires constant activity and can be demanding. Trinity games allow you to just stand there spamming 3 buttons while watching youtube. Fun for some, but it bored me to death.

Trinity dungeons can be as hard or as faceroll as they are tuned to be. Non-trinity dungeons can be as hard or as faceroll as they're tuned to be. There's nothing about a trinity system that makes the encounters inherently easy just like there's nothing about GW2's non-trinity system that makes everything inherently harder. The difficulty is the result of tuning.

[Jalek]

I agree with everythin Op said. PvE design in this game is bad, so bad it turned me off the game after hitting max level and trying dungeons for few days.

It's not just the PVE design, the PVP is bad too. It all stems back to the horrible combat system with limited abilities. Some weapon sets have one single target attack that you use often and a couple of debuffs or special attacks that you want to save for when you need to use them. So literally you run around autoattacking for 90% of the time. It's incredibly boring.

[ControlBlue]

I guess we came to a point where there is no convincing the opposite side. There only way to know who was right is to wait a few weeks/months and see if there is a growing outcry and if GW2 numbers are affected one way or the other.

The people praising SWTOR held their ground teeth and nails until they became the minority.

Time will tell.

[nocturnus]

So literally you run around autoattacking for 90% of the time. It's incredibly boring.

I wonder how successful you are, running around with your "autoattack" in pvp Hope to meet players like you on ESL.

Like everything else, there's a group that likes the current explorables and one that doesn't. Saying it's 'bad' design is inherently ridiculous, saying you dislike the design philosophy for whatever reason is fine.

There's nothing about a trinity system that makes the encounters inherently easy

We disagree and that's fine.

[Rukh]

I have to admit that its sort of sad that over half the dungeons I've done would have been total failure if it weren't for the "feature" that players can basically zombie zerg all bosses down.

I almost wish this weren't the case so players were forced to get decent and gear up. it would be a long-term goal people could work towards.

[nocturnus]

Dunno why people keep saying things like this. It's a pretty well known issue - yes, even brought up by PvPers - that a lot of weapon kits are very, very, very auto-attack heavy. To imply that you want to meet those players because you're so good and will easily beat them just demonstrates a fundamental lack of knowledge about the different classes and weapon kits.

So here you say that people can't make a blanket declaration one way or the other...



...then here you support your own previous blanket declaration.

I like your style, sir.

If you fancy putting words in my mouth, I'd prefer you not addressing me or quoting me in any form. I'm here for quality discourse and not for childish bickering.

[SamR]

If you fancy putting words in my mouth, I'd prefer you not addressing me or quoting me in any form. I'm here for quality discourse and not for childish bickering.

I was hoping for some quality discourse on trinity vs. non-trinity dungeon design and difficulty scaling, but all I got was a "I disagree". Not much room for quality discourse, really.

[Deathquoi]

That's probably why you spend half the dungeon downed... I run with a static group and we hardly ever go down, let alone die.

I think the design is close to perfect: good groups clear a dungeon within 40 minutes, earn rewards and earn some coin, bad groups spend 3 hours trying and end up with an empty coin purse.

I do get that others might like the traditional mmo pve style though. GW2 requires constant activity and can be demanding. Trinity games allow you to just stand there spamming 3 buttons while watching youtube. Fun for some, but it bored me to death.

As far as the dungeon's success tells me, many players share my opinion.

Uh, no. We cleared the dungeon in 30 minutes or so, it just wasn't any fun whatsoever. It was actually ridiculously easy, because half the group was downed constantly and we still cleared it. Like I said, though, it just wasn't fun.

[Otaka]

Haha, you can't have meaningful boss fight mechanics without the trinity. It just doesn't work that way.

GW2 is what it is: a faceroll game for super casuals who are bored with wow or don't play MMOs that often as to warrant paying a sub. Get on with it or quit, don't expect any known PVE guilds to change from wow to...lol...GW2 for pve.

Funny thing, its harder to do pve in gw2 than any other mmo.

So many people fail on the first giant world event in nageling aswell, because they dont know how to dodge.

[nocturnus]

I have to admit that its sort of sad that over half the dungeons I've done would have been total failure if it weren't for the "feature" that players can basically zombie zerg all bosses down.

I almost wish this weren't the case so players were forced to get decent and gear up. it would be a long-term goal people could work towards.

This would inevitable gate content which is exactly what Anet tried (successfully I might add) to avoid.

I think 'bad' teamplay is sufficiently sanctioned. Graveyard zerging is a taxing, frustrating and an expensive approach. Regrouping and discussing a battle plan is often a much better solution compared to constantly running against the same virtual wall.

Anet's approach provides the choice: Play well and succeed without loss or play badly and succeed, provided you persevere and accept the lighter purse and consumed time.

A different approach for a different breed of players. I think it's a good way to design content.

I was hoping for some quality discourse on trinity vs. non-trinity dungeon design and difficulty scaling, but all I got was a "I disagree". Not much room for quality discourse, really.

If you expected me to explain how my opinion formed you needed only ask. There have been some trinity vs non trinity threads but if we're allowed to off-topic, I'd gladly explain my thoughts.

Uh, no. We cleared the dungeon in 30 minutes or so, it just wasn't any fun whatsoever. It was actually ridiculously easy, because half the group was downed constantly and we still cleared it. Like I said, though, it just wasn't fun.

If you say so. I find it hard to believe a group which 'constantly' had half its capacity downed, cleared a dungeon in half an hour.

[Deathquoi]

If you say so. I find it hard to believe a group which 'constantly' had half its capacity downed, cleared a dungeon in half an hour.

I find it hard to believe that anyone actually finds GW2 to have depth and compelling gameplay when it comes to PvE, but hey.

[nocturnus]

I find it hard to believe that anyone actually finds GW2 to have depth and compelling gameplay when it comes to PvE, but hey.

Which hints at bias and makes your claims even less reliable. But hey, I'm sure you're telling the truth. We'll refer to it as the 'down-state speed run' from now on. A new way of efficiently besting explorable content. "To kill the fiend quickly, you must die first!"

I bid you a good night and perhaps we shall further discuss this subject on the morrow.

[nocturnus]

To be fair, the dungeons really aren't even 20% as difficult as you're trying to make them sound in this thread.

Yet again, putting words in my mouth. Since ignoring you hasn't had the desired effect, I'll try asking you politely: Please, do not quote me if you're not proficient enough to comprehend what I put in writing.

[VibrantViolet]

I find it hard to believe that anyone actually finds GW2 to have depth and compelling gameplay when it comes to PvE, but hey.

I actually really enjoy the PvE. Coming from WoW, it is a breath of fresh air to me. How can you find it hard to believe? Not everyone likes and dislikes the same things as you...

[nocturnus]

Wrapping it all up in a bunch of words doesn't make, "Nut-uh!" any more convincing.

Besides, what exactly did I "put in your mouth" there? I didn't claim that you said a single word. If you have something to disagree with or something you'd like to offer, be my guest. Don't think that you're fooling anyone by dodging topics and instead just insulting people in the most verbose way you can come up with.

"because you're so good and will easily beat them" I never made such a claim. Your lacking comprehension obfuscates the true meaning of my words.

"dungeons really aren't even 20% as difficult as you're trying to make them sound" Nor did I claim the dungeons were hard. Again, limited by proficiency.

Now you added a new claim, 'I insult people!'

I dodge earth spikes, Dragon's teeth, purple crystals. I don't 'dodge topics'

'The thief doth fear each bush an officer.'

Sorry you're offended by that.

I'm not offended, nevertheless I appreciate your preventive apology.

[Deathquoi]

Which hints at bias and makes your claims even less reliable. But hey, I'm sure you're telling the truth. We'll refer to it as the 'down-state speed run' from now on. A new way of efficiently besting explorable content.

I bid you a good night and perhaps we shall further discuss this subject on the morrow.

I don't have any bias. I played WoW for a while and quit because it got boring. I gave GW2 a fair shake and it didn't hold my attention in any phase of the game. Now I'm back playing WoW because I like MMOs but GW2 wasn't interesting. Sorry you're offended by that. Personally, I'd like them to make the PvE more interesting so I can continue to play it. You can keep taking it personally though, which you clearly are, judging by your screenshot and subsequent editing efforts. Cute.

---------- Post added 2012-10-29 at 08:00 PM ----------

I actually really enjoy the PvE. Coming from WoW, it is a breath of fresh air to me. How can you find it hard to believe? Not everyone likes and dislikes the same things as you...

I understand that. I was making a point. I find it hard to believe, but I don't begrudge anyone their opinion, except when they're telling me mine is wrong.

[Ragnarohk]

I agree with the OP, the downfall in GW2 PVE is tied with the idea of not having a trinity. While it is an interesting idea, it's basically impossible to create fun and engaging fights without having assigned roles. Why? because it cant be balanced. Most fights are "Avoid x attack and zerg boss" (with a few exceptions). Sure, dungeons aren't horribly hard, however they do become dull and boring when you realize that everything is just a zerg fest, If you die it doesn't even matter, you just rez at the nearest way point and continue the fight.
In order to create fun and engaging mechanics, you need to assign roles. How so? Lets take some examples from WoW, one of my favorite fights in the game is mimiron, everybody had a clear role in that fight depending on the phase. However its nearly impossible to replicate complex fights like this in GW2.

Another aspect to take into account is that GW2 PVE has an unbalanced award to effort ratio. You have to run an instance 1000000 times to get the corresponding gear set to "transmog" it. Although rewards shouldn't be free, the amount of time you have to invest on the same "ZERG!" instances is horribly high. As a casual (played only 1 day a week) i found it impossible to try and get a set, i had to basically run that instance all day long for weeks to be able to get the set.

TL;DR: GW2 had the potential to bring a nice and different PVE experience to the table, it however blew it all with "ZERG!!!!" mechanics; also, the reward system is broken, it involves way too much repetition (Aion grind anyone?)

[nocturnus]

[/I]Trying waaaaay too hard.To the point of being a caricature of yourself, that kind of trying-too-hard. Take it back a notch, own the things you've said, and give the whole beating on your chest thing a rest. When you try that hard to look smart/strong/cultured/whatever, it just has the opposite effect on observers.

Who's dodging now? You're a funny individual I'll hand that to you. Shall we quit our little feud now? If you're compelled to continue send me a private message (if you reckon our 'observers' wouldn't be taken aback by our departure) and I'll indulge, for a while.

[Deathquoi]

I'm not offended, nevertheless I appreciate your preventive apology.

Oh you clearly are, because you took the time to taake a screenshot, edit it, and upload it to dropbox, which reeks of care. I agree with Bovinity, you're trying really hard to convince everyone you don't care.