So alliance win the war?

[dokilar]

Which war exactly did the Horde win?

No, the First War was against the Kingdom of Azeroth/Stormwind.

what difference does it make who it was against? they still won it...

[Dreknar20]

what difference does it make who it was against? they still won it...

Humans also won wars against the trolls and what not

[dokilar]

Humans also won wars against the trolls and what not

im failing to see the point. he asked what war the horde won, people have stated that they very clearly won the first war, which they did. it doesnt matter what the war was about or who was involved in it. the horde was at war with a faction in the first warcraft, they won that war.

[Deleted]

I guess you also know what Im going to have for lunch tmrrw

All I said was what one people/culture considers evil isnt the same view another people/culture takes. Its not a universal thing

Yes, and we were discussing it in the context of the things that Garrosh has done in game lately in this expansion and in Cataclysm. I disputed that and felt that there is very little that Garrosh has done which can even be debated as being good or evil. I feel this because so much of what he has done is so obviously evil, or are similar in meaning to evil, be it 'barbaric', 'cold hearted', 'remorseless', or whatever other semantics you can think of. And that was it. Can we move on now?

[Leodegrance]

horde always loses wars? should try a battleground mate :P

Learn to know the difference between a whole war and battle.

You can win many battles and still loose the war...just ask General Robert E. Lee about that.

[Deleted]

And the First war was the orcs vs humans only. whats your point.

Pretty much the point I made all over the thread, the Horde never won a war against the Alliance. It was in the grasp of winning the Second War, but Gul'dan betrayal took that from Doomhammer.

---------- Post added 2012-10-28 at 01:51 AM ----------

Technically the Orcs, as they are now, did not lose the Second War, the Burning Legion did.

The Horde didn't answered to the Legion after Doomhammer took control. Which was before the Second War.

[wheelmandan]

No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by the force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power- governments, and tyrants, and armies can not stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. Now take the words of this man, never give up the fight! to freedom of his people of a evil tyrant.

[Dreknar20]

im failing to see the point. he asked what war the horde won, people have stated that they very clearly won the first war, which they did. it doesnt matter what the war was about or who was involved in it. the horde was at war with a faction in the first warcraft, they won that war.

I guess whoever you were arguing with was saying the Horde didnt win against the Alliance, which wstn created till after the fall of Stormwind

[Deleted]

im failing to see the point. he asked what war the horde won, people have stated that they very clearly won the first war, which they did. it doesnt matter what the war was about or who was involved in it. the horde was at war with a faction in the first warcraft, they won that war.

Read what I quoted. The context of the answer was about Horde and Alliance.

[Dreknar20]

The Horde didn't answered to the Legion after Doomhammer took control. Which was before the Second War.

Maybe,
but intentional or not, they were still going after the goals the Legion wanted them to

[Deleted]

Maybe,
but intentional or not, they were still going after the goals the Legion wanted them to

Yes, but still factually, it was all up to Doomhammer.

[Bluey111]

Just because one of their leaders dies doesn't mean the war is over, the horde still hold the majority of kalimdor and the upper half of eastern kingdoms

[Frontenac]

Takes 2 to fight. If only the nightelves didnt attack innocent orcs in ashenvale.

There were no innocent orcs in Ashenvale.

---------- Post added 2012-10-28 at 05:12 AM ----------

Technically the Orcs, as they are now, did not lose the Second War, the Burning Legion did.

The Burning Legion was not directly involved in the Second War. The Horde was fighting for them without even knowing it (except for Gul'dan and the Shadow Council). So the Horde was defeated during the Second War. The Burning Legion was defeated during the third.

---------- Post added 2012-10-28 at 05:28 AM ----------

Horde won in Warcraft 1, and "both" sides won in Warcraft 3. Once Garrosh is dealt with it won´t be a win for alliance, since they will just pack their bags and go back home. Otherwise they know something big and nasty will come after them afterwards (more or less litteral sense).

It will be a win, since they will have met their objectives : stop the Horde from attacking them and get rid of Garrosh. They could even regain some land lost to the Horde. A war does not have to end with the utter destruction of the enemy nation or faction. Fortunately. Even if the Horde survives under a renewed leadership and organisation, that war will be a humiliating experience for them : they will have needed the help of their traditional enemy to get rid of their tyrannic warchief and retake control of their capital city. The war will end with fireworks in Stormwind and a sigh of relief mixed with a vague feeling of shame in Orgrimmar.

[Demox]

It will be a win, since they will have met their objectives : stop the Horde from attacking them and get rid of Garrosh. They could even regain some land lost to the Horde. A war does not have to end with the utter destruction of the enemy nation or faction. Fortunately. Even if the Horde survives under a renewed leadership and organisation, that war will be a humiliating experience for them : they will have needed the help of their traditional enemy to get rid of their tyrannic warchief and retake control of their capital city. The war will end with fireworks in Stormwind and a sigh of relief mixed with a vague feeling of shame in Orgrimmar.

Unless the Alliance are able to suppress ALL of the Horde or ALL of the Horde surrender, the war isn't over. Even if they took Orgrimmar, there's still the Undercity, Quel'Thalas/Silvermoon, Thunderbluff and Troll city (idk) that seemingly still exist filled with people who still hate the Alliance. Had all the Axis powers stayed in play, defeating Hitler in Germany doesn't end the war when the rest of the participating countries were still active, yes, it would have been a major blow but the war wouldn't have been over.

[Every Pwny]

How do the horde lose? The horde win their civil war against Garrosh, the alliance are just there for the ride.

[StationaryHawk]

The Horde doesn't lose. They help the Alliance dethrone Garrosh. If the Alliance were to win, they'd eliminate/assimilate the Horde, not join forces to defeat an unwanted dictator.

The Horde also isn't "always losing wars". They won the First War, lost the Second War, and won the Third War.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

In war, no one wins.

[Thelxi]

Yes. Time to uninstall WoW, the conclusive truth finally comes out: Alliance>Horde.

[Tenjen]

the Horde from before w3 is not the same horde we have now. THose were just demonic pawns. They werent fighting for themselves, they were just a starting army to make way for the real war, the Arrival of the legion.

[Sandrox]

The Horde doesn't lose. They help the Alliance dethrone Garrosh. If the Alliance were to win, they'd eliminate/assimilate the Horde, not join forces to defeat an unwanted dictator.

The Horde also isn't "always losing wars". They won the First War, lost the Second War, and won the Third War.

I really dont think that the Alliance and rebel Horde are joining forces. More of a 'stay out of our way and we wont kill you, this time' kind of thing.