Why is everybody whining about leveling?

[Deleted]

Leveling is a big part of the game, i know that the game doesn't really start untill level 90, but you need some challenge when leveling in order to learn how to play the class. Or atleast some people do.

Little can properly word it and even if few manage it then they get covered by massive QQ. What people fail to make blizzard realize is the following:

- Leveling is filled with pop culture references. Its funny by the first consumption, problem is that after a while they get old and people are fed up with it. You cant possibly convince me someone can laugh from the same jokes by hearing him over and over and over and over agian.

- Leveling is not engaging. There's little to no quest in entire picture that requires you to focus. You literally can spam whatever skills you have without paying any atention to it and you will still kill the enemy without problems. Clicking on objects or collecting some random items thrown around the world really isnt that much engaging or fun I might add.

- Leveling teaches you next to nothing about your class. Your character learned interupt spells, but there are little to no consequences to miss a interupt in open world during questing, in a dungeon or raid that can mean a wipe. Your character learned agro drop ability but there are no situations where your character has to use it, in a raid or dungeon that can mean a wipe. Your character different spells which consist of your rotation, but there is little to no situations where you have to burn down an enemy quickly, keep aggro for DPS NPCs or heal them before they die, in dungeons or raids doing sub-optimally any of those can result in a swift wipe where everyone start to blame everyone, rightfully so because the game didnt teached any of them anything and they all believe they did all ok since during leveling nothing like this ever happened.

- Leveling is inconsitent with the end-game. Nothing that you pick up during the leveling (except last blues in 89~90 areas) help you in peforming at end game. Putting out fire on the bay in Thousand Needles or on the harvest orchard in Northshire Abbey doesnt teach anyone how to act during raids or dungeons. Turret section dont teach you how to DPS/HPS/TPS in heroics or raids. Tasks during leveling must be similiar to those players do in raids in order to know whether they are doing the right thing or not. Explaining it with outside game guides which slowly become THE ONLY solid decalogue on how to succed in end-game IS A DEVIL DAMNED COP OUT!

TL : DR
Leveling is:
= filled with pop culture jokes and references which get old really fast.
= is not consistant and too different from the end-game.
= as such it doesnt preapere you for end-game at all.
= is not engaging in any sort of way.

[dryankem]

If you'd actually bother reading some of the complaint post rather than making generalisations, you'd find that it isn't "we want to be level 90 right now". The problem is that questing was insufferable owing to how many of them were generic "Kill X mobs for Y drop" over, and over, and over. Not to mention that a lot of mobs have higher health than I would consider actually fun to grind through at any gear level.

Isn't that what every MMO or RPG game does (collect X or kill Y)? Not sure what you are expecting here. The complaints I'm seeing is that it takes to long get exalted (which is basically the same as I want to be 90 right now). AMKisho nailed this right on the head. They gave us more content and even removed the mandatory reps so they are now optional (no more head and shoulder enchants), although most people don't view the reps as optional even though they really are.

Oh and they already changed the rep rewards to be a little more forgiving (moved things up) and are adding bonus rep for alts in 5.1. The expansion will get easier for ALTs but be patient, you can't have everything at once.

[Keakee]

I have a lot of alts. I love some of them more than others. I am dreading leveling them all up. The questing was amazing the first time around; did my ret pally feel incredibly weak in some parts? Yes. Was it just mind-numbingly slow in others? Also yes. But the stories they told were simply put, awesome. But the time I have to invest is simply silly. Sure, I want stuff to do. But dailies take too long and are a bit too repetitive (got burned out on the 5th day), dungeons are just...bleh, and questing seems a little too boring. Sure, I'll do it, but will I enjoy it the 10th time around?

[Deleted]

People got spoiled during Cataclysm. There was huge void in content so most players have leveled many characters to max level to have something to do. Now they feel like they have to level up those characters to 90, but repeating same leveling content over and over again is not fun.

Then leveling was ruined in Cataclysm and wasn't fixed in MoP. Abilities at low levels are completely out of control, monsters pose no challenge even if player doesn't have heirlooms. Leveling being insanely fast doesn't help ether. Linear questing, forcing players to repeat same quests over and over again in same order also contributes to boredom.

I can understand why players whine.

but you need some challenge when leveling in order to learn how to play the class. Or atleast some people do.

There is no challenge during leveling any more

[Elegiac]

Isn't that what every MMO or RPG game does (collect X or kill Y)? Not sure what you are expecting here. The complaints I'm seeing is that it takes to long get exalted (which is basically the same as I want to be 90 right now). AMKisho nailed this right on the head. They gave us more content and even removed the mandatory reps so they are now optional (no more head and shoulder enchants), although most people don't view the reps as optional even though they really are.

WoW broke the mold by limiting the grindfest. I know it's fashionable to have a boner for Vanilla-era play, but the fact of the matter is that its success is hinged upon its ability to offer many and varied diversions that don't entail grinding mobs till kingdom come.

[Kiea]

My plan was to probably have 3 lvl 90's by new, and I have 1, because I want to get stuff done on my main like reputations, and that requires me to do a lot of dailies, and after I've done this dailies, I do not want to do quests.

[Keakee]

My plan was to probably have 3 lvl 90's by new, and I have 1, because I want to get stuff done on my main like reputations, and that requires me to do a lot of dailies, and after I've done this dailies, I do not want to do quests.

This is exactly why I stopped doing dailies. I'm not a raider, so I don't feel obligated in any way. I was just in it for the mounts, and I figure that I'll wait until rep gets a nerf in 5.1 to start doing the daily grind.

[Blackmist]

The only complaint I had about levelling was down to stat scaling and gear. As you get past 88 or so, you'll notice the enemies taking a LOT longer to die. And if you're not used to DPS, it'll take a fair while longer than that.

As I got into Townlong Steppes and Dread Wastes, it went from "taking a while" into "full-on ball ache" territory. Those areas only become fun again when you've got a decent amount of level 90 gear on. I never had this issue in previous expansions. If anything the worst point before this was when taking a non-80-geared toon into Hyjal for the first time. That problem vanished with a few quest rewards.

I think it's just that the stats scale down so drastically, and the gear rewards don't cover the losses. Your DPS will probably go down a lot between 85 and 90.

[Deleted]

"There isn't enough leveling content in Cataclysm"
"Flying mounts destroy the game"

"Leveling in MoP is long and tedious without a flying mount"

[Booniehat]

Although I understand where people who are saying "players complain too much" are coming from, you can't ever deny that WOW is a business. I'm talking about that the goal of every business is to satisfy their customer (or rather, maximize profits, primarily through customer satisfaction).

Blizzard's customers have the right to complain. Some of it is entitled hyperbolic laziness, but some of it are valid criticisms that MUST be addressed.

From the way some people respond to any complaint, we'd be stuck with dialup modems: "WTF you entitled kid why do you need broadband for, dialup bauds were good enough 10 years ago, it's good enough now. Back in my day we sent letters BY POST ffs."

(I'm aware I'm straw-manning a bit, but I think you get what I'm saying.)

[Keakee]

The only complaint I had about levelling was down to stat scaling and gear. As you get past 88 or so, you'll notice the enemies taking a LOT longer to die. And if you're not used to DPS, it'll take a fair while longer than that.

As I got into Townlong Steppes and Dread Wastes, it went from "taking a while" into "full-on ball ache" territory. Those areas only become fun again when you've got a decent amount of level 90 gear on. I never had this issue in previous expansions. If anything the worst point before this was when taking a non-80-geared toon into Hyjal for the first time. That problem vanished with a few quest rewards.

I think it's just that the stats scale down so drastically, and the gear rewards don't cover the losses. Your DPS will probably go down a lot between 85 and 90.

I noticed that too, but I just chalked it up to me sucking at ret dps. So it wasn't just my fault, the stats are a bit wonky on the gear/power of the mobs?

[Deleted]

I noticed that too, but I just chalked it up to me sucking at ret dps. So it wasn't just my fault, the stats are a bit wonky on the gear/power of the mobs?

Stats are fine, you should practice more.

[dryankem]

'Mandatory' and 'Optional' are strong words considering how players have been using Justice and Valor points for the last few years. Both currencies are essentially useless without the reputation, which is why many players are of the mindset that they need to do it in order to get the correct amount of benefit from what they do on a regular basis.

I know but they are changing the game. Gear comes more from drops now than the point system (but guaranteed it changes in 5.2). I know it's not what we are used to but the points are less important.

Yes badge gear is good and you should aim to get it but I could raid without that gear. Heroics get you into LFR and LFR gets you into normal.

[Deleted]

Isn't that what every MMO or RPG game does (collect X or kill Y)? Not sure what you are expecting here.

The expectation here is that leveling should be consistent with end-game otherwise leveling trully is nothing more then empty grind that segregates you from end-game. Leveling in its current form doesnt teach you anything and when you are done with it you are suddenly expected to be competent and know what HPS/DPS/TPS, moving out of fire, rotation, optimal specc and glyphing and general class knowledge. How will anyone pick this up when during leveling no one is forced to do it?

[Eurhetemec]

Then decide what class you like best, and stick with it. Problem solved.

In the short term. Though it's still wasted time, essentially.

In the longer-term, it means playing WoW is less attractive because if you want to play an alt, you need to grind through 20+ hours of boring, pointless quests to get from 85 to 90. I could watch an entire season of TV in that time. Or probably finish (or get 2/3rds of the way through) a single-player game. Or watch 10 movies. All of which are more fun than WoW levelling.

So when I do want to level an alt, I consider, do I want to even keep up my WoW sub? Facing 20+ hours of boring quest-based levelling? The answer may well be "no". Which is fine for me, of course, but not so fine for Blizzard. Which means that this is a real problem, at least from their end.

I don't think just making levelling faster is a real solution (though it would help prevent subscription attrition for alts). There is no real solution for this expansion. For the next expansion the solution would be to make levelling FUN and interesting. Not so much of a quest-grind. Let people level quickly and efficiently through dungeons and PvP and so on. Reduce the number of quest chains and reduce the amount of phasing and the like. Make more quests genuinely optional, more zones genuinely optional. Or hell, get rid of quest-quests and adopt of a mode more like GW2's hearts system, which isn't perfect, but is a hell of a lot less boring than WoW's finickity questing.

Let's be clear - in 2004, WoW's quest system was revolutionary. 2008, phasing was kind of cool. In 2012? Both are very old-hat. Parts of WoW are still really fun. Questing is not, for most players, one of them.

[snegro]

If you don't have the time you shouldn't be leveling alts. Plain and simple.

People have become COMPLETELY self entitled in this game. BC there was no such tome for flying and you didn't get flying until 70. That wasn't changed until WotLK and people made alts just fine. 10 levels of alts at that. The idea that alts NEED Pandaren flying is garbage and it's people who spout that who are ruining the game. Just like the blue post recently said in regards to I think it was reputation or leveling: Why not just make an NPC who hands out gold then? Not everyone will use it, but plenty would want it I bet.

I've been there, and more so here, for the majority of this games existence. Yeah, it was painful hitting level 60 on my first druid. It was an amazing experience too. Then it was similar in BC. Wrath introduced BoA flying and it made leveling alts more encouraging. You say self-entitled, and yet I argue that people are just more friendly to the concept of removing the anti-fun mechanic that is not being able to fly while leveling. It felt great leveling through MoP the first time without flying, sure, and I wish Cataclysm was originally designed that way - but once you've seen the content and the work they've put in it's nothing the second time around and quite frankly nobody cares for it anymore.

On top of a heavy raiding schedule at the moment (as raids are released) and just recently ensuring my reputations with the Klaxxi and Golden Lotus were exalted it's nothing but exhausting trying to find time to level up my alt warrior just to have some fun outside of raiding. I could understand if you cried self-entitlement in regards to how easy it is to now obtain raiding gear and other meaningful simplifications introduced to the game for the casual gamer but speeding up the leveling process for those leveling multiple characters? Get off your high horse.

It's a non-important aspect of the game and people simply want to get it out of the way that little bit faster. Stop being over-dramatic. How fast others level their secondary accounts doesn't impact on your character progression or anyone elses for that matter.

It's a game.

[Deleted]

I have a lot of alts. I love some of them more than others. I am dreading leveling them all up. The questing was amazing the first time around; did my ret pally feel incredibly weak in some parts? Yes. Was it just mind-numbingly slow in others? Also yes. But the stories they told were simply put, awesome. But the time I have to invest is simply silly. Sure, I want stuff to do. But dailies take too long and are a bit too repetitive (got burned out on the 5th day), dungeons are just...bleh, and questing seems a little too boring. Sure, I'll do it, but will I enjoy it the 10th time around?

And if I may ask you. Does the knowledge of NPCs stories help you in your peformance during raid and heroics? If not then we have a fundamental problem.

[Kesandri]

Everyone isn't moaning about leveling, only some are

[Deleted]

because people are lazy, thats why.
Yesterday I read thread about speculations of new expansion, someone said it would be cool have big 10 lvl expansion again, I think that myself, but judging from countless threads how lvl from 85-to 90 take soooooo much time and people are "forced" to do quests, there's no hope for it.

[Deleted]

Yeah you need, but where is the challenge (during leveling)? I saw none in the last 3 expansions.

They should add real group quests again like in TBC. (I know a druid and pala could sometimes solo them) Imo they should try to get more teamwork in the overall game.

You'd be surprised how many people don't know wich CC or where they can find it in their spellbook.