How much of a dps loss is drain soul on a single target?

[Wvvtayy]

I absolutely hate shadow bolt, how much of a dps loss would it be to always just take drain soul over the other talents? I dont mind a dps loss as long as it isnt massivr.

[dmfg]

I absolutely hate shadow bolt, how much of a dps loss would it be to always just take drain soul over the other talents? I dont mind a dps loss as long as it isnt massivr.

You could sim it, but the answer is "not very much". Shadow bolt is about 6-7% of your ST so if you never ever cast it/drain soul and just sat there jumping half the fight, you would still be competitive for the top ranged dps spot.

[kail]

You could sim it, but the answer is "not very much". Shadow bolt is about 6-7% of your ST so if you never ever cast it/drain soul and just sat there jumping half the fight, you would still be competitive for the top ranged dps spot.

Are you counting the fact that Deathbolt is lost for DS?

[lonely zergling]

Iirc talenting drain soul is even a dps loss compared to no talent at all. But sure go ahead if you like the gameplay.

[dmfg]

Are you counting the fact that Deathbolt is lost for DS?

No, I haven't simmed, it's certainly possible that simply removing Shadow Bolt from bars is higher DPS than taking Drain Soul.

Either way the point is, there are ways to never cast Shadow Bolt and still be perfectly fine if you're not pushing mythic progress.

[Baconeggcheese]

Around a 10% dps loss seems like, unless you're actually benefiting from the shards it gens then it'd probably be a little less but still a fairly significant loss.

[Lucrece]

Drain Soul is so bad, it's worse than even Nightfall.

The problem is you are paying a talent slot to gain a filler that does less baseline damage than a baseline shadow bolt and it only ramps up damage on targets at execute range which means the damage would need to be absolutely nuts to make up for the gap of not only an inferior nuke to shadow bolt but also the loss of deathbolt.

I'd much rather they ditch shadowbolt for affliction and leave it as a demonology spell while returning drain soul without the self healing to affliction.

[Werst]

Why is drain soul still such a dumpster of a trap talent?

Why is demonic consumption still a loss or break even at best for a bottom tier talent?

We are coming up on 8.1 and this is beta level gross tuning errors?!? Wasn't there a ton of talk about no more trap talents yet we have talent trees filled with them? Let's not even talk about that poor roaring blaze having dot mechanics dating back to pre wotlk era...how hard is that to fix?! Not that anyone would take that undertuned mess but even IF they did it would munch itself.

This is gross negligent incompetence that this still is in this state this many weeks and months into live. Not knob flat % numbers tweaks but fixing talents people can't even really use. Fun? Choice? What are those?! Fix your product!

[Phookah]

Either way the point is, there are ways to never cast Shadow Bolt and still be perfectly fine if you're not pushing mythic progress.

Ignore this, so wrong it hurts.

Literally no talent > Drain Soul. Plus you lose Deathbolt. 10% or more, so yes, massive dps loss.

[Lucrece]

Why is drain soul still such a dumpster of a trap talent?

Why is demonic consumption still a loss or break even at best for a bottom tier talent?

We are coming up on 8.1 and this is beta level gross tuning errors?!? Wasn't there a ton of talk about no more trap talents yet we have talent trees filled with them? Let's not even talk about that poor roaring blaze having dot mechanics dating back to pre wotlk era...how hard is that to fix?! Not that anyone would take that undertuned mess but even IF they did it would munch itself.

This is gross negligent incompetence that this still is in this state this many weeks and months into live. Not knob flat % numbers tweaks but fixing talents people can't even really use. Fun? Choice? What are those?! Fix your product!

They haven't even corrected RB having green fire as it mimics the immolate effect, so it's pretty obvious their QA investment is minimal as they know their subscribers will let them get away with murder in terms of polish and BFA proves it.

[EZOBOSS]

I think they did the math and you would need to get a shard from drain soul every 7 seconds for it to be equal to DB. So yeah it is very bad.

[dmfg]

Ignore this, so wrong it hurts.

Literally no talent > Drain Soul. Plus you lose Deathbolt. 10% or more, so yes, massive dps loss.

I mean you can take DBolt and never cast shadow bolt and only lose 6-7%, which is not massive by any means.

[SpikeySquad]

I mean you can take DBolt and never cast shadow bolt and only lose 6-7%, which is not massive by any means.

Depends on gear of course but 6% is over 1k DPS for me (wth perfect play blah blah) on ST. That is massive in my eyes.

[Malix Farwin]

You could sim it, but the answer is "not very much". Shadow bolt is about 6-7% of your ST so if you never ever cast it/drain soul and just sat there jumping half the fight, you would still be competitive for the top ranged dps spot.

if 10% is not very much then you are right. Losing Deathbolt is pretty huge though. If it was the difference between DS and Nightfall then the loss would be more negligible.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean you can take DBolt and never cast shadow bolt and only lose 6-7%, which is not massive by any means.

Why would you do that though? obviously its on the assumption that you use the talent and filler.

[Werst]

How big is the loss in m+ where you can shard snipe and spend more time multi dotting? I mean is there ANY situation where you can justify drain soul being so absurdly under tuned as to be a loss vs taking nothing?

Nightfall is more fun but still garbage and needs another talent to be fun which isn’t as good as haunt and will never be really. Speaking of haunt, when did it become “curse of shadows single targe with a cast time” - yet still our best option?! How far has lock QoL slipped?

Pull your heads out of your...numbers for a minute and consider that. It’s no longer fun or interesting it’s a maintenance buff with a cast + travel time and it puts all the other more fun options out of business. How fubar is that?!

SoC has such terrible mechanics it could almost never be made to explode hard enough. At this point it needs to spread BOTH agony and corruption. Other dot classes have far better mechanics for dot spreading and we already have ugly mechanics with tons of ramp up. Or let the talented version spread both dots. That is another turdball talent...2x seeds pfff. VT could be cheaper and shorter CD. PS is the default winner but even it should have murder of crows CD reduction when someone blows up what you put it on...is lock QoL a dirty term at blizzard? Is it suppose to be a class fantasy to be a pain in the ass to play in so many situations? Are we supposed to look past the beta level errors you left live still and call it wonderful?

No, be the company that built this...the product you have turned out this expansion is substandard.

[Malix Farwin]

How big is the loss in m+ where you can shard snipe and spend more time multi dotting? I mean is there ANY situation where you can justify drain soul being so absurdly under tuned as to be a loss vs taking nothing?

Nightfall is more fun but still garbage and needs another talent to be fun which isn’t as good as haunt and will never be really. Speaking of haunt, when did it become “curse of shadows single targe with a cast time” - yet still our best option?! How far has lock QoL slipped?

Pull your heads out of your...numbers for a minute and consider that. It’s no longer fun or interesting it’s a maintenance buff with a cast + travel time and it puts all the other more fun options out of business. How fubar is that?!

SoC has such terrible mechanics it could almost never be made to explode hard enough. At this point it needs to spread BOTH agony and corruption. Other dot classes have far better mechanics for dot spreading and we already have ugly mechanics with tons of ramp up. Or let the talented version spread both dots. That is another turdball talent...2x seeds pfff. VT could be cheaper and shorter CD. PS is the default winner but even it should have murder of crows CD reduction when someone blows up what you put it on...is lock QoL a dirty term at blizzard? Is it suppose to be a class fantasy to be a pain in the ass to play in so many situations? Are we supposed to look past the beta level errors you left live still and call it wonderful?

No, be the company that built this...the product you have turned out this expansion is substandard.

A lot of people assumed that the shard sniping would be pretty big but mixed with the frequency of which it occurs it increases DS value by about 10% of its current value which only amounts to about 1% if that. The shard snipping + execute puts it close to Nightfall but both arent even in the same league as Deathbolt that actually scales with your DoTs. You are basically comparing the two to a Malefic Grasp variant(Deathbolt).

Thats the biggest problem with that Tree, you have 2 talents that do not scale with DoTs vs. 1 Talent that does. They were much better off not moving DS and Nightfall to that tree and keeping SI and Haunt there.

[Kazuchika]

Maybe OP should just play another class

I cannot believe there are people who think Shadowbolt spam is worse than boring braindead drain cycles in Legion.

[mqrtk]

Maybe OP should just play another class

I cannot believe there are people who think Shadowbolt spam is worse than boring braindead drain cycles in Legion.

I cannot believe there are people who think Shadowbolt spam is better than some interaction with your Dots in Legion


SB Spam for Affli is simply awful and boring.. oh wait the whole fucking spec is now boring


Without sims i think it might be ok in next Week M+. Explosive is pretty good for Shard Sniping

[Terryn]

Maybe OP should just play another class

I cannot believe there are people who think Shadowbolt spam is worse than boring braindead drain cycles in Legion.

Trying to min max damage windows > spamming a single button when you have nothing else to do? You sure have an interesting idea of "braindead"

[Deleted]

I cannot believe there are people who think Shadowbolt spam is better than some interaction with your Dots in Legion


SB Spam for Affli is simply awful and boring.. oh wait the whole fucking spec is now boring


Without sims i think it might be ok in next Week M+. Explosive is pretty good for Shard Sniping

Malefic Grasp in MoP was fun. Loved having my screen full with yellow numbers. Tho that may stem from snapshotting being a thing. Shadow Bolt is still Afflictions filler for me however.