USA falling apart?

[Grizzly Willy]

His point still stands, regardless of whether or not it actually applies to you in particular.

[Reeve]

Thanks to the Republics in the last 12 years, none of the above.

I build my own computers, sadly the parts are all made in Asia. 100% of my clothing is either made in china, Taiwan, or India. UCLA is just down the street from me. California would get all the Military contracts that Texas has, all the Tech companies in Texas would rather be in a Nation which has the Ability to protect their intellectual properties. I doubt an independent Texas could do that. So California would most likely get them as well. Sure let Texas go, California will do a lot better.

Yeah, if Texas were to leave, and it won't, then yeah, a lot of that stuff would just flee to other states, but it's silly to think that Texas offers nothing of value currently.

[vaeevictiss]

WOW, really! the debt is 100% the fault of the Republicans with 2 wars and tax cuts during the bush administration. the majority of 'Welfare' goes to the Red States including Texas. the States that regularly get government bail outs are all the southern states.

The impending 'fiscal cliff' is when the Bush tax cuts end, meaning American taxes go back to where they where in the nineties, which means about a 19% increase across the board.

really?! The debt is 100% bush? Obama almost doubled the debt since he took office...you can only blame the last guy so long. You bring up wars...Obama let Iraq go on until more recently, and tho he pulled the majority of troops out of Iraq, he strengthened the war in Afghanistan. He also got us involved in 2, possibly 3 other small conflicts. While most of welfare does go to "red" states, you need to look at the cities/counties that receive the most assistance FROM those states. They are usually major metropolitan areas that are...you guessed it...heavily democratic voters, and show up blue on an otherwise red state.

Here is VA is a perfect example. We are on that top 10 list of government assistance. If you look at the county color map for the most recent election, nearly every county in the state is red, with the exception mainly of Northern VA and Richmond. These heavily democratic areas are populated enough to swing the entire state to a blue state...yet the areas receiving the most assistance are...guessed it again...Northern VA and Richmond.

As far as bailouts in the southern states...I must have forgotten about the southern city of Detroit, Michigan, which received the majority of the bailouts for the auto industry...

Did you get your facts from CNN? Shame on you.

[jimlow]

Yeah, because Texas has nothing of value. /sarcasm

I guess you don't use any Dell computers, Texas Instruments semiconductors, Cotton, Oil, or any number of the goods from the other corporations stationed here. I suppose all the medical advances coming out of MD Anderson, Baylor School of Medicine, or any of the other medical research facilities here. There's a lot that's of value in Texas, even if you disagree as I do with Texas rural politics.

Those are businesses who's incentive is profit and can be replaced, or they might even move their HQ depending. Yes we would lose resources but in this age of globalization that isn't such a big deal, I am however talking about a bigger picture. How much does Texas provide in terms of GDP to the country vs what it takes? and more importantly if they leave that's 38 electoral votes for the republicans that will no longer be counted. The next closest state would be Georgia with 16. Texas is almost single handedly keeping the republican party relevant. Hell it might even be a huge blessing in disguise as it would force all the other hard red states to compromise on the social issues.

[Adam Jensen]

@People threatening secession over Obama's victory: Grow up. He is not the Great Satan. He's not out to "destroy America." Jesus f**kin Christ, the conservative propaganda was really effective, wasn't it?

---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 12:18 PM ----------

really?! The debt is 100% bush? Obama almost doubled the debt since he took office

ORLY?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...-barack-obama/

---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 12:19 PM ----------

Here is VA is a perfect example. We are on that top 10 list of government assistance. If you look at the county color map for the most recent election, nearly every county in the state is red, with the exception mainly of Northern VA and Richmond. These heavily democratic areas are populated enough to swing the entire state to a blue state...yet the areas receiving the most assistance are...guessed it again...Northern VA and Richmond.

Looks like northern VA is an outlier: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ng-charts-maps

[Vizardlorde]

and more importantly if they leave that's 38 electoral votes for the republicans that will no longer be counted. The next closest state would be Georgia with 16. Texas is almost single handedly keeping the republican party relevant. Hell it might even be a huge blessing in disguise as it would force all the other hard red states to compromise on the social issues.

This is also the main reson why republicans will most likely oppose the admission of Puerto Rico to the country as a State to make sure gap of sure votes between both parties is close.

[smelltheglove]

Yes there is one from NY. It was started by a North Dakota resident.

This whole thing is a giant joke.

so the majority of signers of said petitions are trolls. color me shocked, lol

[SirRobin]

It was an issue and I'm not saying it wasn't, however the North didn't invade the south until the south attacked a Union Fort. History is written by the victors. As a person from a southern family, and as a person who studied the history in university. I can assure you the majority of the southerners signed up to fight the north because of Taxation Representation. Had the south won the institution of slavery would have ended naturally with in the same generation. How do I know this because there was a Strong Abolitionist movement in the South, also several new technology's where making it cheaper to not use slaves. A fact people forget the Abolitionist movement was based out of Several churches, and was not excepted by the majority of Americans, including a large portion of the Republicans. Lincoln was not an Abolitionist.

As one who enjoys history myself, I must admit that I love these kind of explorations. Slavery was a major issue and it has had its share of "glossing over," so to speak, among later generations. Understandable given how despicable, in hindsight, the institution was. So while claims that "slavery was on its way out anyway" may have some merit. They gloss over just how economically and politically entrenched Slavery was. Taxation is often the "excuse" given, an apt one considering how often it is a contentious issue. Yet, in many ways, it is just that, an excuse.

Just look at what was included in South Carolina's secession document, "an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of slavery has led to a disregard of their obligations..." Slavery is the "elephant in the room," so to speak, and later generations were understandably evasive of their ancestors' part in its perpetuation. Here are a variety of documents, in fact. Slavery and Slaves are brought up with disturbing frequency.

---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 11:55 AM ----------

ORLY?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...-barack-obama/

Not to mention what countries that embraced austerity, like Greece and Spain, are going through. Continuing the dive into debt was pretty much our only chance to avoid another Great Depression.

[chadwix]

If the USA would be completely bankrupt, why do Red States in the South take more money from the Federal Government than they put in?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...leaning-state/

Now factor in inflated gov unionized salaries and bailouts. There is a lot of spending your poLOLitifact site doesnt show. The auto industry up north was bailed out, not the plants in the south because they arent unionized and pay their employee's 2x for doing the same job.

Gov jobs = gov spending, its not rocket science.

[Rukentuts]

Now factor in inflated gov unionized salaries and bailouts. There is a lot of spending your poLOLitifact site doesnt show. The auto industry up north was bailed out, not the plants in the south because they arent unionized and pay their employee's 2x for doing the same job.

Gov jobs = gov spending, its not rocket science.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if the Red States (in general) left the USA, the federal government would have more money than they have now.

That's what that link I posted is referring to.

[mopkins]

They can't leave the union...it's not allowed, even by (LOL) online petition. Once you join the union you must stay there and it is unconstitutional to leave. The state of Texas has no standing army, the army belongs to the federal government. Back in the civil war the militias were mostly local and not necessarily loyal to the federal government...that is not the case anymore.

Nice to know some random idiot can create an online petition that 25,000 other idiots can laugh about and sign anonymously and it makes the news. All because he's butthurt that "his guy" lost an election

[chadwix]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...-barack-obama/[COLOR="red"]

Did you read the article? The author used very creative math.

[Kasierith]

Did you read the article? The author used very creative math.

Care to elaborate on what you define as "creative math?"

[belfpala]

Care to elaborate on what you define as "creative math?"

Don't bother. Forbes is part of the LIBERAL MEDIA ESTABLISHMENT. Nothing you link can ever be true.

/sarcasm.

[Wildtree]

really?! The debt is 100% bush? Obama almost doubled the debt since he took office...you can only blame the last guy so long. You bring up wars...Obama let Iraq go on until more recently, and tho he pulled the majority of troops out of Iraq, he strengthened the war in Afghanistan. He also got us involved in 2, possibly 3 other small conflicts..

While I agree with you that the 100% debt is not Bush's fault. The cause of the debt that increased during Obama has a lot to do with it..
How about, Bush just shouldn't have started the two wars? Starting the war on iraq borderlines international war crime. you can twist it as you want, it's just that.
Instead, he should have continued chasing Bin Laden, and he had him back then. Not Obama, 10 years later.
The troops in Afghanistan cost us currently 200 mio bucks each and every day, at their current man count.
Which doesn't even add up because if you research you find on official govt sites from the pentagon that they estimate the costs of a single soldier offshore, between 850k and 1.4mio per day. So it's likely even more than 200 mio per day..
Add that together.... Multiply by the years. Then we can talk.
The countries immense debt is a direct result of warmongering and uninterrupted military efforts for over 6 decades.
Before you start (Both sides are meant now) playing the blame game, educate yourself on what military actually costs.
Don't be surprised when you find out in the end, that the costs to run all that war machinery of yours ate up pretty much the entire countries debt, and probably some on top.

But both sides stop blaming either the last, or the current president for the countries entire debt.
Makes you look pretty dumb.

[stumpy]

Care to elaborate on what you define as "creative math?"

Meaning they actually did math. That's just confusing.

Just tell Chadwix that it's very wonky and you don't have time to explain it, and you'll be set.

[cutterx2202]

Starting the war on iraq borderlines international war crime.

If this is your stance on Bush, I'm interested to hear your stance on Obama giving weapons to Libian terrorists, and going against geneva convention by targetting a sovereign country's leader for assassination.

[SirRobin]

Care to elaborate on what you define as "creative math?"

Math that doesn't agree with his "creative" assumptions of course.

[Animalhouse]

The destruction of America has been going on for some time. To blame Obama or Bush is naive. The #1 culprit is GREED. Our entire "democracy" is manipulated by large corporations and banks. They lobby Washington and pad the pockets of anybody who furthers their agenda...red OR blue. These people use our military to make things conducive for big business in other countries under the pretence of "spreading democracy". If any president or leader tries to stop it, they are neutralized. The industrial military complex, private central banks and oil cartels are the reason wars will not stop and people are getting less for more. JFK wanted to "break the CIA into a thousand pieces" and dismantle the industrial military complex and was assassinated for his efforts. People till this day who argue it was a lone gunner have no idea about the massive misshandling of evidence and other facts to the case.

A great documentary to help you see the long trail of greed is the "Money Masters".

[Tinykong]

Starting the war on iraq borderlines international war crime.

Not that I condone the entire thing, but capturing and bringing Saddam Hussein to justice for his war crimes against humanity was a positive outcome.