lol not gonna lie it was a good idea... except you know... the whole upscalling of YOUR effects, that part was just kinda stupid... although idk why it was even added in wow, at no point in any of my WoW career did i ever think "Well if this jack asses spell effect wasn't so flashy i would've been able to avoid that fire!!" where in GW2 i've though that and yelled that a few times...
You guys are very naive. Do you really think people are going to keep doing that infinite dungeon just because it's there? Fuck no they aren't. They will do it until they get their 3 pieces of ascended that they need and then they will start complaining about being bored again. Yeah, you may be able to throw some anecdotal evidence of someone you know that can't wait to do this dungeon until they collapse but it's exactly that, anecdotal. The vast majority of players will not do content if there is no chance of a possible upgrade awaiting them. That's why it's so hard to find groups for some of the story modes since those don't even give tokens out. Same thing with groups skipping large portions of the mobs in the explorables. They don't have a chest for killing them and the odds of getting a rare or better are low so it gets skipped. Anybody that thinks large numbers of people are going to sit around doing an infinite dungeon that offers them no gear upgrades is delusional.
Um... you can put infusion upgrades in the dungeon, which would upgrade them, which would make them want to do the dungeon, and infusion upgrades would allow them to get further too which in turn makes them want to play it more, then they can add more fragments to the instance, which would make them want to play it more, and they can do more infusions, and so on and so on and so on.
Special mechanics/infusions/agony and stuff like that is perfectly ok, I don't think that anybody actually argues with that. The problem is that that are introducing a new tier of items which have better stats than exotics, although they promised earlier that there would be no items with better stats than exotics. Thats the whole issue.
From reading about this topic it seems to me as if the dungeon doesnt always have to increase the Agony dmg as the difficulty increases. You may still be taking the same amount of agony dmg while number of mobs get increased or mob health and damage get increased. Those could be your skilled gameplay to overcome the content rather then agony mitigation. (if you want a source its in one of the Anet blogs)
I don't think they misunderstood that folks race to endgame and then raid and such. I think the thing is, with their advertising, they didn't figure those people would come to THIS game. They did come here though, and then raced to 80 and complained about no endgame...
Now they're hitting that part where they have "loyal customers" that are between that "race to max then leave game" crowd and people like me that are just wandering around enjoying content. They do want to give these folks more stuff to do, without breaking any of the rules set down. The only thing to really wonder about is how this will make them more money, do they expect more gear treadmill lovers to come to the game?
---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 10:45 AM ----------
I thought the Ascended gear was basically the stats of Exotic + gem/upgrade, with the addition of a slot that would allow you to put the infusion in, but most of the stat comparisons posted I've seen don't explain if they're including gem or not. If it is, then the actual Infusions may not even have direct stat boosts to them and instead just be agony related counters.
But really, we'll find out soon enough, so lets see.
I'm sure there will be someone grinding it all out within 2 days of launch.
This Is directed at your response to the first quote.
It absolutely WILL make them more money because the people who were essentially pioneering the game for their friends were getting bored and leaving due to no progression blah blah blah, however, of they add progression (even in just one dungeon of the game, which I was shocked to hear from several of my gear treadmill friends) those players will be dragged into the game as well. I have friends who previously wanted NOTHING to do with the game suddenly become very interested all because of this one instance an the possibilities they see with it.
The picture they showed with the blog (the two rings) showed an Ascended item with stats baked into it and an Exotic with same stat type (2-3 points difference between the two totals, with 3% difference in the magic find stat) just slightly higher. That, and the description of these items, indicates the infusion gems will most likely be related to the Agony mechanic and not have other stat boosts attached.
There will be offensive infusions however, so you can bet those will increase your dmg or somthing unrelated to the agony mechanic. Also notice how the ring slot is labeled "Unused Defensive infusion" This most likely means each slot of gear (pants, shoes, helm, etc) will probaly be limited in what kind of infusion you can slot in it. Rings seem to be Defensive only. And seeing as they are only releasing this one Defensive infusion first we can assume the back slot will be a defensive infusion slot as well. Offensive infusions may come on weapons but then again what are omni infusions for?
The difference is actually 5 Power, 5 Precision, and 3% Magic Find. That's comparing an Exotic Ring with an Exotic gem in it to an Ascended ring with an empty infusion slot.
Now put that 5 Power and 5 Precision across 13-15 pieces of gear (offhand weapons), or actually a bigger upgrade thanks to back pieces being currently capped at Rare? Shift it from Magic Find gear to Berserker's gear and hey that's a lot of stats that you're getting, not by traiting differently, but just by having more stuff. That's not even touching the Infusion slot.
And I really think Bovinity put it best with this one:
It would have been different, yes. The reason for that is because there was supposed to be a hard ceiling in the gear progression. WHERE that hard ceiling was placed wasn't so relevant, just that it existed. If that ceiling had been Masterwork, Rare, Exotic, Ascendant, ultimately it was fine because that was the established ceiling, that's it, it's set. No more.
When you set the ceiling, and then move it later, THAT will raise eyebrows. It's a very significant shift, and one that rightfully creates some skepticism. It was never supposed to move, but now it just did...so who's to say it won't just move again? Do we trust them if they say it won't move again, given the broken promise of it the first time?
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The infusion slots are not going to help you outside the dungeon. Just like Agony will only show up inside the dungeon, infusions will not help or hurt you outside the dungeon. This is why they built in stats you would get from normal slots else the gear would actually be worse than exotics.
Now since they are adding Offensive infusions and Omni infusions we know that its going to result in some sort of dmg increase. Its how they implement it that is key. They could just say +5% dmg done inside fractals of the mists. This would keep infusions from becoming "required" outside the dungeon, Or they could make it so that the offensive bonus is only active when under the affects of the agony condition which would also limit it to this dungeon only.
Eh, if it were only for Agony, then they would not require such a complex system for infusions as they announced:
"There are multiple types of Infusions and Infusion slots. In November, we’ll introduce Offensive, Defensive, and Omni Infusions of Fine rarity from new Mystic Forge recipes. Infusion upgrade types must be paired with their like slot, with the exception of the rare and versatile Omni Infusions which can be slotted into any type of Infusion slot."
Uh what i said is still true. You still dont gain any benefit from having an infusion outside the dungeon. What you link does not contridict what i said. In fact i was using that info to formulate my opinion on the matter. They could for example make offensive infusions only take effect when the Agony debuff is present. Or maybe the lore behind Omni infusions is that they are powered by the mists themselves and the strange energies that surround that place. Thus once you leave the Mists they no longer work.
That seems to be a case of wishful thinking, I fear.
Also, if I read Ramon Domke's post right, difficulty progression as in Fractals of the Mists will be the future type of progression they're focusing on, so we can expect that it'll be not just limited to that one dungeon. (Really, it stands to reason that they're not going to introduce a whole new tier of gear with the accompanying grind for one dungeon; this is going to be relevant for a lot of future content.)
No. The dungeon itself is its own separate thing. Yes it will be broadened and expanded upon in future updates and will have a self contained progression. Outside of that dungeon the only progression youll see is Blue > Green > Orange > Pink > Legendary
Inside the dungeon it will just be more and more infusions to make your character seem stronger.
Also remember GW2 has a bunch of content teams. Teams adding events, zones (like the lost shores), Jumping puzzles, and even more dungeons. This dungeon is just a seperate mode of pve for those that want it. Other dungeons will be added to the game that are outside the FotM. These dungeons will work just like the current set of dungeons. No infusions required.