What would've happened if the orcs had won the Second War?

[Deleted]

No Gul'dan was not working for the Legion. He was only hunting after the Eye of Sargeras, which lost the orcs the second war.
But the orcs were still bound to Mannoroth, because they drank his blood.

Yet, they fell to a lethargy and managed to go back to the shamanistic roots without killing Mannoroth. Only the Warsongs felt the need to drink the blood again in WC3.

That's why I always saw the Death of Mannoroth as a symbolical, not literal, break from the curse. The majority of the orcish race was already free since their lethargy and withdrawal.

[Deleted]

Yet, they fell to a lethargy and managed to go back to the shamanistic roots without killing Mannoroth. Only the Warsongs felt the need to drink the blood again in WC3.

That's why I always saw the Death of Mannoroth as a symbolical, not literal, break from the curse. The majority of the orcish race was already free since their lethargy and withdrawal.

I think it was that the blood burned out in their veins when they were in captivity. Maybe it was like a drug and they needed more.

[Deleted]

Number 2 is the most likely.

Please tell me how Mannoroth is able to corrupt the Orcs if he isn't even summoned since both Gul'dan and Cho'gall are dead.

I think Number 1 is the most likely.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 04:56 PM ----------

Night Elves wouldn't have any easy means of closing the portal to keep the orcs from pouring in, but orcs are far weaker than the demon armies they faced in War of the Ancients.

I don't agree. The strength the demons had was their numbers, and without closing the portals it would be almost endless.

Orcs are FAR better warriors and pose much more of a threat. And you can't eliminate that threat by simply closing a portal. So yeah, Night Elves would probably have a lot more trouble with the Orcs.

[Ethenil]

As for Khaz Modan, the orcs conquered it whole, with the Dragonmaw going to the east (thus they are there today in the Twilight Highlands) and iirc the Bleeding Hollow going to Dun Morogh, conquering everything, from the Badlands to the Wetlands, with the exception of Ironforge, which stood through the whole Second War.

[Deleted]

Please tell me how Mannoroth is able to corrupt the Orcs if he isn't even summoned since both Gul'dan and Cho'gall are dead.

I think Number 1 is the most likely.[COLOR="red"]

Mannoroth corrupted the orcs before the first war, before they even came to Azeroth.

[Deleted]

I think it was that the blood burned out in their veins when they were in captivity. Maybe it was like a drug and they needed more.

That's why Doomhammer cleaned the Horde of the Shadow Council. He knew about the blood, he never drunk it.

[Dreknar20]

No Gul'dan was not working for the Legion. He was only hunting after the Eye of Sargeras, which lost the orcs the second war.
But the orcs were still bound to Mannoroth, because they drank his blood.

and regardless whether the Orcish Horde knew or not

They were still doing what the Legion intended them to do, wipe out most of the major opposition on Azeroth

[Verdugo]

Legion would propably use orcs as distraction for the elves, while more profesional forces would assault the vital targets - civilians. Big moral blow to the defenders.

[Deleted]

That's why Doomhammer cleaned the Horde of the Shadow Council. He knew about the blood, he never drunk it.

That doesn't remove the blood from the veins of the people who drunk it.

[Deleted]

That doesn't remove the blood from the veins of the people who drunk it.

The lethargy did. That means that sooner or later, the bloodlust would burn itself down.

Also, Doomhammer would bring back the shaman to their former position, helping the process. As the OP said, Ner'zhul would be a key player here.

[Deleted]

The lethargy did. That means that sooner or later, the bloodlust would burn itself down.

Also, Doomhammer would bring back the shaman to their former position, helping the process. As the OP said, Ner'zhul would be a key player here.

The lethargy didn't remove the blood. It's the reverse. It kicked in because of the withdrawal.
And Ner'zhul led the orcs right into the arms of the demons.

[McCulloch]

I say Mannoroth probably could have returned. All it would require is reconfiguring the Dark Portal. If they conquered the kingdoms they would be able to retrieve the artifacts Ner'zhul wanted and all it would take is one clan to do so. Rend and Maim would easily have opened the portal knowing their grudge against Doomhammer and their lack of intelligence.

[Deleted]

The lethargy didn't remove the blood. It's the reverse. It kicked in because of the withdrawal.
And Ner'zhul led the orcs right into the arms of the demons.

I meant the "Lethargy" as the event, not the physical effect itself.

Ner'zhul led the orcs twice, yes, but the first time he was tricked and the second time he was trying to run away from them. If Doomhammer controls the EK, Ner'zhul doesn't have the need to led the rest of the Draenor Horde and open new portals. He was pretty much anti-Legion at this time.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 08:32 PM ----------

I say Mannoroth probably could have returned. All it would require is reconfiguring the Dark Portal. If they conquered the kingdoms they would be able to retrieve the artifacts Ner'zhul wanted and all it would take is one clan to do so. Rend and Maim would easily have opened the portal knowing their grudge against Doomhammer and their lack of intelligence.

And who would tell to those retards what to do? Better, would even Doomhammer let them running amok?

[Deleted]

I meant the "Lethargy" as the event, not the physical effect itself.

Ner'zhul led the orcs twice, yes, but the first time he was tricked and the second time he was trying to run away from them. If Doomhammer controls the EK, Ner'zhul doesn't have the need to led the rest of the Draenor Horde and open new portals. He was pretty much anti-Legion at this time.

Well just imagine what happens when the withdrawal sets in. The blood makes them stronger. Even if they conquered Azeroth, at some point they would want more. They would need more.

[McCulloch]

I meant the "Lethargy" as the event, not the physical effect itself.

Ner'zhul led the orcs twice, yes, but the first time he was tricked and the second time he was trying to run away from them. If Doomhammer controls the EK, Ner'zhul doesn't have the need to led the rest of the Draenor Horde and open new portals. He was pretty much anti-Legion at this time.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 08:32 PM ----------



And who would tell to those retards what to do? Better, would even Doomhammer let them running amok?

They could find the skull of Gul'dan. Using that with the other artifacts all it would take would be a sizeable group of Blackrock spellcasters and the Portal is now opened to the Twisting Nether. Very few orcs would want to live in the Blasted Lands when you could live in the lush forests of Lordaeron or Azeroth (Stormwind). They would be relatively unchecked.

[Deleted]

They could find the skull of Gul'dan. Using that with the other artifacts all it would take would be a sizeable group of Blackrock spellcasters and the Portal is now opened to the Twisting Nether. Very few orcs would want to live in the Blasted Lands when you could live in the lush forests of Lordaeron or Azeroth (Stormwind). They would be relatively unchecked.

Why would the Skull of Gul'dan even exist, if it's Doomhammer that kills him on this timeline?

Also, Doomhammer controls the Blackrocks.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 08:47 PM ----------

Well just imagine what happens when the withdrawal sets in. The blood makes them stronger. Even if they conquered Azeroth, at some point they would want more. They would need more.

And where would they get it? And why would Doomhammer permit such thing?

[The Glitch]

The Ancients are and always have been allies of the Night Elves, no matter how much lorespinning cdev wants to bullshit to legitmize the horde being allowed to set foot atop Hyjal. The Ancients were inspiring and a force to be reckoned with but the Night Elves did the bulk of the fighting. I don't see why people have this obsession to denigrate Night Elf lore. The Dragonflights were completely blindsided by Deathwing at a pivotal moment during the War of the Ancients and effectively removed from the fight. it was the Night Elves who won the day... Not the Ancients, not the flights, the Night Elves.
They are the only race in the entire wow universe that can say they've defeated the Legion *twice*.

While I totally agree with almost everything you said (i adore Night elven lore and night elves themselves) Remember that if the Night Elves hadn't accepted the help of the Tauren/Earthen and Furbolgs whilst trying to keep the demons at bay long enough for the portal to be closed they may well have been defeated, The Night Elves at that time, while they had great warriors and the Well to pull from Magically, were not used to warfare at that time due to being the most populous race around and getting a bit to comfy in their stature.

But they would put up a damn good fight regardless

[Deleted]

And where would they get it? And why would Doomhammer permit such thing?

Do you think he would rather have lethargic orcs? That would be one reason. Another would be that it simply makes them stronger.
Where would they find the blood of Mannoroth? Mannoroth might be a good spot to start looking.

[Deleted]

Do you think he would rather have lethargic orcs? That would be one reason. Another would be that it simply makes them stronger.
Where would they find the blood of Mannoroth? Mannoroth might be a good spot to start looking.

If the human kingdoms were defeated, he didn't need "stronger" orcs. Also, he was great in making alliances, including with humans.

[Deleted]

If the human kingdoms were defeated, he didn't need "stronger" orcs. Also, he was great in making alliances, including with humans.

Wait now you suggest he would've allied with the humans?