Isn't it about time the Mens' Rights Movement stopped being treated like a joke?

[Laize]

After thinking about it for a bit longer than just a second, I guess it comes from the view of male and female rights.
Males have more rights than female, so therefore it sounds reasonable to assume that the female problems are bigger, thus the male problems can be overseen due to them having more rights.

I guess you could say it's like comparing a war between two nations. Both nations are killing people, and the side killing the most people are often seen as evil, making the opposite nation look good, excusing it's actions.

It's a way to justify something in order to avoid the issue at hand, and I admit I did that with my first comment here. After thinking more about the problem at hand, there is no reason to focus more on one side rather than the other, especially when it comes to the western countries where these male problems are most common.

Men don't have more rights than women in the civilized world.

[Elegiac]

Men don't have more rights than women in the civilized world.

Explicit rights? No. But advantages exist.

[starlord]

But we give ways out of those consequences for one party but not the other?

---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 06:33 PM ----------

You still don't get it. Men have no choice in the matter, this is why many consider it a problem.

yes, men dont have a choice in whether a woman can carry a baby or not, beyond not boinking her. its a problem created by mother nature, not some inherent sexism in the legal system.

[Deleted]

What, none? The only times you hear about PPD is when some mother drowns her kids in the bath.

You've clearly been in a maternity ward in the past two decades. Even sex ed courses now discuss the impacts of PPD in mothers. Please don't act like it's on the same level as male suicide. Every maternity ward has an on site specialist in PPD for at risk mothers.

---------- Post added 2012-11-26 at 12:46 AM ----------

Explicit rights? No. But advantages exist.

For both sexes, not just men.

[Laize]

Explicit rights? No. But advantages exist.

Women have rights men don't have.

So men have some privileges women don't (Which are absolutely not sanctioned by society).

Women have rights men don't (Which are totally sanctioned by society).

My brain fills with fuck at how female privileges are supposed to be at the forefront when men are missing swathes of rights in the whole "family planning" area of life.

And again, the reason most men kill themselves in Western society (If Australia is to be believed) are related to lack of consideration for men in the domestic sphere.

Men almost never get custody of kids. Men have no say in family planning. Men frequently don't even get visitation when they still have to pay for a kid. Men stand an extremely good chance of losing everything in a marriage.

All of this shit leads to a suicide rate quadruple what women experience and people think it's nothing to be concerned about. Why the hell are men considered so disposable?

[Elegiac]

Women have rights men don't have.

So men have some privileges women don't (Which are absolutely not sanctioned by society).

Women have rights men don't (Which are totally sanctioned by society).

My brain fills with fuck at how female privileges are supposed to be at the forefront when men are missing swathes of rights in the whole "family planning" area of life.

The female advantage in terms of family planning and shit like that is a relic from the days when women were the family stones, the home makers. So really it's just the patriarchy biting its creators in the ass now that the playing field's skew has been reduced.

[starlord]

Women have rights men don't have.

So men have some privileges women don't (Which are absolutely not sanctioned by society).

Women have rights men don't (Which are totally sanctioned by society).

My brain fills with fuck at how female privileges are supposed to be at the forefront when men are missing swathes of rights in the whole "family planning" area of life.

And again, the reason most men kill themselves in Western society (If Australia is to be believed) are related to lack of consideration for men in family life.

care to fill us in on specifics?

[Elegiac]

You've clearly been in a maternity ward in the past two decades. Even sex ed courses now discuss the impacts of PPD in mothers. Please don't act like it's on the same level as male suicide. Every maternity ward has an on site specialist in PPD for at risk mothers.

Probably because the incidence of PPD is moreso than people killing themselves over child support. I am not arguing that there are not fad diseases.

For both sexes, not just men.

Men generally have more and noticeable advantages.

[Raldazzar]

the subject of rights being debated on a gaming forum which is majoritively inhabited by basement dwelling teens (or scarily adults) is ridiculous.

womens rights
gay rights

all of that jazz, its all crap. PEOPLE's rights. thts what we need to focus on. people as a whole, people cut themselves into this wedge and then get themselves so embittered by it that its impossible to deal with them.

people suck. men and women.

some parents suck. men and women.

the concept of child support/alimony I think its quite a touchy one, I can absolutely see the neccesity for it, my wife doesnt work, so If we were to seperate, she would be destitute. as would my child (assuming she took her) - I as a caring father and at one point lover of that woman would want them to be taken care of. fact is we live in such a world that it dictates once a couple splits.. they must hate. which does nothing but cause pain and hurt the child usually..

the best thing for equality on all fronts in regards to marriage would be

1, let gays/lesbians marry, it doesnt matter what goes in what hole. it matters that they love each other.
2, when a couple seperates, have support systems in place to help them open up a dialogue. to help them remain friends. to help them get over this. because THAT would solve more alimony/child custody cases then any of this other crap

[Rukentuts]

yes, men dont have a choice in whether a woman can carry a baby or not, beyond not boinking her. its a problem created by mother nature, not some inherent sexism in the legal system.

Mother nature didn't create child support payments, sorry.

[Deleted]

The female advantage in terms of family planning and shit like that is a relic from the days when women were the family stones, the home makers. So really it's just the patriarchy biting its creators in the ass now that the playing field's skew has been reduced.

Oh boy, the word that ends any discussion. Good luck trying to sound even remotely legitimate now. You've lost any credibility in my eyes, still you raised some interesting points overall. Nice chat.

[Elegiac]

Mother nature didn't create child support payments, sorry.

This Mother Nature chick sounds like a bitch, just saying.

[starlord]

Mother nature didn't create child support payments, sorry.

women have to pay them too.

[Elegiac]

Oh boy, the word that ends any discussion. Good luck trying to sound even remotely legitimate now. You've lost any credibility in my eyes, still you raised some interesting points overall. Nice chat.

Pardon? Perhaps I should have inserted a little :P face to iterate it was partially in humour.

[Rukentuts]

women have to pay them too.

From a choice the woman made (to keep the baby). I'd really like to stop going in circles here please. It's really not complicated logic.

[Deleted]

the subject of rights being debated on a gaming forum which is majoritively inhabited by basement dwelling teens (or scarily adults) is ridiculous.

womens rights
gay rights

all of that jazz, its all crap. PEOPLE's rights. thts what we need to focus on. people as a whole, people cut themselves into this wedge and then get themselves so embittered by it that its impossible to deal with them.

people suck. men and women.

some parents suck. men and women.

the concept of child support/alimony I think its quite a touchy one, I can absolutely see the neccesity for it, my wife doesnt work, so If we were to seperate, she would be destitute. as would my child (assuming she took her) - I as a caring father and at one point lover of that woman would want them to be taken care of. fact is we live in such a world that it dictates once a couple splits.. they must hate. which does nothing but cause pain and hurt the child usually..

the best thing for equality on all fronts in regards to marriage would be

1, let gays/lesbians marry, it doesnt matter what goes in what hole. it matters that they love each other.
2, when a couple seperates, have support systems in place to help them open up a dialogue. to help them remain friends. to help them get over this. because THAT would solve more alimony/child custody cases then any of this other crap

Engaged, gainfully employed (for now at least) and a teacher (as extroverted as it gets). And I'm by no means unique on these boards, they're called general for a reason.

When was sexuality mentioned?

[Wells]

From a choice the woman made (to keep the baby). I'd really like to stop going in circles here please. It's really not complicated logic.

The thing you're not understanding is women and men don't get equal power here because their positions are inherently unequal.

[Laize]

care to fill us in on specifics?

Been doing it this entire time.

In most areas of the country, women are still granted permanent alimony in a divorce.
In most areas of the country, women are permitted to deny visitation to fathers (Oh sure on paper it's usually illegal, but find an instance of the justice system DOING anything about it).
In most areas of the country, child support doesn't guarantee visitation
Custody is granted to the mother in almost all situations regardless of who's actually the better parent.
Men have absolutely no family planning rights beyond "not having sex". None. If a man isn't ready to be a father, it's "tough shit".

Yes, in the last example that problem is biological but the legal system is what forces the obligation. The legal system can provide a remedy.

[Benitora]

How exactly do men have more rights in the Western world?

Men don't have more rights than women in the civilized world.

I was attempting to make an analogy regarding on how the issues are viewed, not on how the issues really are.
Stereotypically when it comes to modern view on Male VS Female rights, the male side seem to come a bit ahead.

Reasons as to why I may say that of course, is because of the very same reason this thread was made.
A Female rights movement is able to create more attention than a male one, despite both having serious and valid problems to point out.

[Deleted]

Pardon? Perhaps I should have inserted a little :P face to iterate it was partially in humour.

Once you insert patriarchy into the discussion all we end up in are cyclical arguments. Not sure where you meant to be humorous, it probably just doesn't come across in text. Wish they'd invent a proper symbol for implying humour in text :P