DREAM Paragon World first Heroic Sha of Fear

[kallaesia]

mage
survival hunter
balance druid
bear druid
disc priest
fury warrior
balance druid
holy paladin
affliction warlock
protection paladin

If anyone is worrying about comp

2 healers? is it right?

[Theiea]

So, do mods exist on this forum? Every thread turns into a 10/25m debate and ruins every progression thread.

We do exist, please do not question our actions in public. We are not on 24/7 though :O -Azshira

[Deleted]

So many fanbois here that can't see the facts.

Do you know what raiding has become? It hasn't become about skill anymore. It's about who plays the most and who has the most alts. Every Blood Legion raider has like five alts. And it's all so you can class stack. Ask any top raider. That's what it is.

[kiezo]

The question wasn't whether they would have killed it before any other guild. The question was whether, if Paragon stayed as a 25 man guild, they could have killed it as fast or faster on 25 than 10.

The answer is they probably would not have been able to. Paragon themselves said, when they were dropping to 10s, that they couldn't raid 25s at a level they would be satisfied with (but could do so on 10). That gives some insight into which mode is the mode that is harder to achieve progress (i.e. killing bosses as quickly as possible) in. Yes, you can explain away the specific reasons that they dropped to 10s (they couldn't recruit enough Finnish players, etc.), but all of that still goes to the overarching point here.

Yes, that point being that they couldn't recruit enough raiders to stay 25s at a level they wanted so they went 10s. Nothing to do with which raid size would net them more world firsts. I'm sure that if they could have raided 25s and remained competitive for world first they would have. Why do people have to read so much into everything?

Anyway, congratulations Paragon. Looking forward to the video.

[Celar]

Stone Guard (10) killed by 29666 guilds or atleast 296660 players
Stone Guard (25):killed by 2294 guilds or atleast 57350 players

so i guess moste ppl do ?

How about Empress 25 man hc: 27 guilds
Empress 10 man hc: 7 guilds

Either you are just an idiot or you are trolling. Obviously there will be x times as many 10 man guild as 25 man guild kills on easy bosses, even I am pugging 10 man on my alts cus its way easier and faster to ge ta group.

Not saying 10 man is harder or anything, cus I have no real knowledge of that... Just saying your comment is invalid.

[Deleted]

Gotta love the eternal 10/25 fights.
A world first is a world first, and it doesn't matter how much you want to deny it. It's the fact.

[Deleted]

Lol so much troll bait in this thread.... Erm grats Paragon! Can't wait for the kill vid! Gunna be epic.

[Melkandor]

So, do mods exist on this forum? Every thread turns into a 10/25m debate and ruins every progression thread.

I still don't understand why people get so worked up over something that has nothing to do with them. Unless you're in the Top 10 guilds, why do people care so much about a World First?

[GrieverXIII]

10 man, who cares.

[HisDudeness]

i just hope somewhere out there, riggnaros is crying...kid dont deserve nothing

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Indeed, it's obvious 25s are harder to maintain and control, but gameplay is a whole other difficulty. Blizzard attempts to make them the same gameplay difficulty, but due to the lack of raid utility and flexibility 10 mans have, they are usually more difficult. Exceptions can be made for bosses that limit your space or when blizzard decides to make them harder for some odd reason (ultraxion).

Sure, you can argue that 10 mans are harder on some (or all) fights when it comes to the specific mechanics and such. That's up for debate. However, it's also merely a subpoint. Again, the real question you should be asking is if Guild A was choosing between 10 man or 25 man, and wanted the fastest progress (meaning, they wanted to kill bosses as fast as possible), which difficulty should they choose?

The guild being discussed in this thread had to face a related question. In one mode, they wouldn't be able to raid at the progression pace that they wanted to, but they could in another mode. They chose to switch modes as a result, and they're able to kill bosses faster in this mode than they'd have been able to in their former mode (which is irrespective of how fast other guild are clearing things/whether they'd get world firsts anyway).

[skitz0129]

So many fanbois here that can't see the facts.

Do you know what raiding has become? It hasn't become about skill anymore. It's about who plays the most and who has the most alts. Every Blood Legion raider has like five alts. And it's all so you can class stack. Ask any top raider. That's what it is.

Who cares? Why is an intelligent strategy like this something you're talking about as if it's somehow negative? God the idiots on these forums.

[Deleted]

i cant wait for blizz to get rid of 25m for the sakes of "equality and logistics"

[Deleted]

Who cares? Why is an intelligent strategy like this something you're talking about as if it's somehow negative? God the idiots on these forums.

It's just sad that people think these people who gets world first are the best guilds. They are not. They are simply the ones that play this game the most.

[Count Zero]

I don't play WoW anymore. I don't have time for it. I'm just following the race and judging by the time it took to clear all the instances this is one of the easiest tiers ever. Disappointing.

It is a disappointing tier in terms of difficulty - Both 10man & 25man

Compare how long guilds were able to gear up in Firelands vs how long guilds were able to gear up in MSV and HoF. In relative terms, Sha took more gear. Attempting with less gear probably would have extended it into or beyond Rag difficulty.

[Penguintamer]

If it were a 25 man world first, no one would have said "meh, it's just 25 man." Probably because it's much more difficult to get 25 people to handle the difficult mechanics of a fight, as opposed to just 10. Both Blood Legion and Dream Paragon are both consisted of top-tier players, yet the 10 mans get completed quicker for that reason. It just takes less time to get 10 people to handle something. Dropping a healer in 10 man always seems to trivialize every single encounter there is. If they designed all difficult encounters to actually require 3 healers, then things might actually be even.

[Kaneiac]

So many fanbois here that can't see the facts.

Do you know what raiding has become? It hasn't become about skill anymore. It's about who plays the most and who has the most alts. Every Blood Legion raider has like five alts. And it's all so you can class stack. Ask any top raider. That's what it is.

Funny you bring up the amount of attempts Ragnaros Heroic took as if it was some sort of significance - and then turn around and bitch about class stacking. Balance druids ring a bell?

[Anonymitylol]

2 healers? is it right?

Well there is a small chance one of the boomkins went resto, but from the DPS requirement I would believe they 2 healed. There is no constant raid damage that would require a 3rd healer a lot of it is what disc/hpaladins specialize in.

[IIamaKing]

The only thing that make 25s harder than 10m is finding 15 more people you can count on to be there to raid. Putting asses in seats is not a game mechanic.

That being said, never really give a poop about the WF races.

[Gorelaz]

No one cares what u think of 10man and 25man, ppl will stick to their opinion no matter how u try to change them, so just save us the 10 pages crap in every thread tying to make ur opinion the correct one. sigh

On topic: Gratz to Paragon